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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

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Are you sure?
1) two bombs means no external tanks (or a single small one on centerline)......
2) never read something or see Mirage 2000N in nuclear config without ASMP ....
3) ASMP was operationnal in 1986. At those time it was under Mirage 4. Mirage 2000N mk1 was ready in 1988, so after first AMPA ready.


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The first batch of 30 aircraft for the French Air Force had a sole nuclear capability, and these were designated Mirage 2000N-K1. These did not have the Spirale chaff system, and carried a pair of AN.52 free-fall nuclear bombs before the ASMP was ready.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_2000N/2000D
A-52.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN-52_bomb
http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/message/1253238384
CHEERS
 
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You can make any number of foolish posts as you like, its a free forum.

HAL can produce even 100 LCA per year if there is a demand. Its not a rocket science to increase the production line. Its a simple matter of finding the Optimum Production Level. Anyone with even a basic understanding of production will know this.

Its HAL who refused to work with Dassault unless Dassault offers iron clad Guarantees. Only Dassault backed out of that.

HAL will go on to produce PAK FA, LCA, Dhruv, LUH, HAWK, Su 30 MKI ,IJT and Upgrade the Mig 29, Jaguar and Mirage 2000. While Dassault won the MMRCA only to loose it due to its short slightness.

So the evidence do not show HAL's laziness, its shows Dassaults stupidity.
My dear,
The results of HAL are more than enough to prove what I say.
Recall me when HAL will have made more than 15 Tejas/year....
Have a good day.

The first batch of 30 aircraft for the French Air Force had a sole nuclear capability, and these were designated Mirage 2000N-K1. These did not have the Spirale chaff system, and carried a pair of AN.52 free-fall nuclear bombs before the ASMP was ready.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_2000N/2000D
A-52.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN-52_bomb
http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/message/1253238384
CHEERS
Wikipedia is sometimes not a true source. Mainly when it's in english for a french subject (with no offense).
I will check some of my contacts about that (some are old french pilots).
But no one have seen 2 nuclear equipment in France under a sole fighter....specially free bomb. see Rafale : it can easily take 2 x ASMP-A but it's not the case. Never.

I will came back later with the answer.

The first batch of 30 aircraft for the French Air Force had a sole nuclear capability, and these were designated Mirage 2000N-K1. These did not have the Spirale chaff system, and carried a pair of AN.52 free-fall nuclear bombs before the ASMP was ready.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_2000N/2000D
A-52.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN-52_bomb
http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/message/1253238384
CHEERS
A first pre answer .... from Wikipedia in french

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-sol_moyenne_portée

Poursuite du programme
En 1977, l'Aérospatiale, répondant à un appel d'offres de la Direction technique des engins propose un missile doté d'un statoréacteur à accélérateur intégré. En 1978, l'Aérospatiale est choisie pour développer l'ASMP en vue d'une utilisation sur Mirage 2000. L'année suivante la décision est prise de l'adapter en priorité sur le Mirage IV en vue d'une utilisation stratégique. Et en 1980, il est décidé de doter la Marine nationale d'une capacité pré-stratégique en adaptant l'ASMP sur le Super Étendard. La mise en production de série intervient à la fin de l'année 1983. La mise en service du premier escadron sur Mirage IV intervient le 1er mai 1986, celui sur Mirage 2000 le 1er juillet 1988 et enfin la mise en service sur Super Étendard, le 1er juin 1989.


Continuation of the program
In 1977, Aerospatiale, responding to a call for tender for the equipment of the Technical Direction offers a missile with an integrated accelerator ramjet. In 1978, Aerospatial was chosen to develop the ASMP for use on Mirage 2000. The following year it was decided to adapt priority on the Mirage IV for strategic use. And in 1980, it was decided to equip the Navy with a pre-strategic capability by adapting the ASMP on the Super Etendard. Series production start comes at the end of 1983. The commissioning of the first squadron of Mirage IV shall be 1 May 1986 and the Mirage 2000 on 1 July 1988 and finally commissioning on Super Etendard, 1 June 1989.

And first commissioning of Mirage 2000N is 1988
 
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@The Eagle I know about reporting posts, my good mate!

But I think that all members of a society are tasked with maintaining it,
all those that can at least. Plus, posting the rules can't hurt as it seems
that a few of our colleagues skipped reading them upon arrival on PDF.

The very fact that Hellfire and you completed my remark with your calls
should show our new and exalted co-forumers that our community wants
conversations to be reasonably free of excess noise and that temper
tantrums are unwelcome; that to graduate to the adults' table for Sunday,
Saturday or Friday main meal and conversation, one has to act like one.

Moderation, which I know well as I did that online and IRL, can always do
its bit on the recalcitrants, on those that cannot self-correct their course or
take hints.

In military context, it's akin to that shot right in front of the feet of an advancing menace. Plus,
SF mindset says that reporting to mods is like calling for CAS : admitting failure, as you were
supposed to go quick and unseen. ;)

Anyway, all the best to you and I'll be back with
a translated piece later if not beaten to it, Tay.

AIR_Rafale-M_Damocles_Micas_Paveways_DA_lg.jpg
 
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The Rafale is good business for Reliance ADA.

Anil Dhirubhai Ambani, Reliance ADA's big boss, is rubbing his hands with glee.
Monday October 3rd, his Reliance Infrastructure division, listed on the Bombay
stock exchange, announced the creation of a joint venture with Dassault Aviation
inder the name Dassault Reliance Aerospace ( DRA ). Its shares' worth jumped 8%.

The new company intends to be a "key player" of upcoming investments by the
French plane maker in India. In exchange for the biggest order ever registered by
the Rafale on the export market -36 firm order-, Dassault in fact agreed to return
half of the contract value ( 590 B rupees or almost 8B € ) locally.

In transfers of technology for a part, under guise of contribution to the Defense Re-
search and Development Organisation of the Indian defence ministry, which is no-
tably working on a relaunch of its Kaveri program, a turbojet engine originally inten-
ded for the Tejas fighter. Further, the deal includes all sorts of industrial returns known
as offsets. DRA is thus hoping to garner in 7 years a turnover of 218 billion rupees
( 2,93 billion Euros ). That volume of activity could provide work for about 200 sub-
contractors, generating 1,500 direct jobs and 9,000 ones in indirect employment.

Elements assembled in Nagpur

Finding out about these previsions, the public enterprise Hindustan Aeronautics Limited
( HAL ) has cause for frowning as it initially expected to get a cut. In a first draft by the
previous government, under the Congress Party, the Rafale deal was for 126 machines,
108 of which assembled on Indian soil in the HAL workshops of Bangalore in Karnataka.
Begun in 2012, that projected deal fell apart 3 years later.

It is then in Nagpur that some parts for the Rafale will be born. A place laden with sym-
bolism : third city in the state of Maharashtra the capital of which is Bombay, this 2,4 m
people town center is smack in the middle of the sub-continent and made itself famous
with its orange trees and coal mines. But it is especially the birthplace of the present head
of the local government and the home of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh ( national vo-
lunteers corps ), the paramilitary hindi movement out of which the Bharatiya Janata Party
( BJP / Indian People Party ), Prime Minister Narendra Modi's political group.

Reliance ADA has already taken preparatory steps : the group acquired a 117 hectares
piece of land nearby the multi-modal airport platform of Nagpur on which it plans to build
a 400 000 square meters factory. Although the production of the 36 Rafales is to take place
at Mérignac, in Gironde, the Indian Air Force settling for an off-the-shelf deal, the DRA J-V.
thinks it can build pieces of the mainframe, many engine elements and some of the embar-
ked electronics in Nagpur. It has launch recruitment for a CEO with 7 candidates already
vying for it. According to a source close to the action mentioned in the economics daily Mint,
" ... activity should start a year from now" .

Credibility at play

In its association with Dassault Aviation, Reliance ADA is putting its trustworthiness at risk.
The group was formed in 2005 after a split of the Ambani brothers regarding inheritance.
Mukesh, the eldest, is India's richest man with a net worth estimated by Forbes magazine
at 20,9 billion dollars ( 18,7 B € ). He is head of Reliance Industries Limited, a conglomerate
that is striking gold in the petrochemical industry but also in distribution and, since September,
in telecommunications as Jio. Steering the Reliance ADA ship is the youngest brother Anil
also present in telecoms and energy as well as media, public works and construction. He is
given for a thousand billion rupees in turnover (13,4 billion € ) with a 100 000 strong workforce.

It was only in January 2015 that Reliance ADA invested in defense business by buying Pipavav
Defence and Offshore Engineering, a company active in aeronautics, submarines, warships &
oil drilling platforms. Since rechristened Reliance Defence and Engineering, it is also listed in
Bombay's S.E.

Tay transl.

http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/arti...-groupe-indien-reliance-ada_5008423_3234.html

As promised and good day all, Tay.
 
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The Rafale is good business for Reliance ADA.

Anil Dhirubhai Ambani, Reliance ADA's big boss, is rubbing his hands with glee.
Monday October 3rd, his Reliance Infrastructure division, listed on the Bombay
stock exchange, announced the creation of a joint venture with Dassault Aviation
inder the name Dassault Reliance Aerospace ( DRA ). Its shares' worth jumped 8%.

The new company intends to be a "key player" of upcoming investments by the
French plane maker in India. In exchange for the biggest order ever registered by
the Rafale on the export market -36 firm order-, Dassault in fact agreed to return
half of the contract value ( 590 B rupees or almost 8B € ) locally.

In transfers of technology for a part, under guise of contribution to the Defense Re-
search and Development Organisation of the Indian defence ministry, which is no-
tably working on a relaunch of its Kaveri program, a turbojet engine originally inten-
ded for the Tejas fighter. Further, the deal includes all sorts of industrial returns known
as offsets. DRA is thus hoping to garner in 7 years a turnover of 218 billion rupees
( 2,93 billion Euros ). That volume of activity could provide work for about 200 sub-
contractors, generating 1,500 direct jobs and 9,000 ones in indirect employment.

Elements assembled in Nagpur

Finding out about these previsions, the public enterprise Hindustan Aeronautics Limited
( HAL ) has cause for frowning as it initially expected to get a cut. In a first draft by the
previous government, under the Congress Party, the Rafale deal was for 126 machines,
108 of which assembled on Indian soil in the HAL workshops of Bangalore in Karnataka.
Begun in 2012, that projected deal fell apart 3 years later.

It is then in Nagpur that some parts for the Rafale will be born. A place laden with sym-
bolism : third city in the state of Maharashtra the capital of which is Bombay, this 2,4 m
people town center is smack in the middle of the sub-continent and made itself famous
with its orange trees and coal mines. But it is especially the birthplace of the present head
of the local government and the home of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh ( national vo-
lunteers corps ), the paramilitary hindi movement out of which the Bharatiya Janata Party
( BJP / Indian People Party ), Prime Minister Narendra Modi's political group.

Reliance ADA has already taken preparatory steps : the group acquired a 117 hectares
piece of land nearby the multi-modal airport platform of Nagpur on which it plans to build
a 400 000 square meters factory. Although the production of the 36 Rafales is to take place
at Mérignac, in Gironde, the Indian Air Force settling for an off-the-shelf deal, the DRA J-V.
thinks it can build pieces of the mainframe, many engine elements and some of the embar-
ked electronics in Nagpur. It has launch recruitment for a CEO with 7 candidates already
vying for it. According to a source close to the action mentioned in the economics daily Mint,
" ... activity should start a year from now" .

Credibility at play

In its association with Dassault Aviation, Reliance ADA is putting its trustworthiness at risk.
The group was formed in 2005 after a split of the Ambani brothers regarding inheritance.
Mukesh, the eldest, is India's richest man with a net worth estimated by Forbes magazine
at 20,9 billion dollars ( 18,7 B € ). He is head of Reliance Industries Limited, a conglomerate
that is striking gold in the petrochemical industry but also in distribution and, since September,
in telecommunications as Jio. Steering the Reliance ADA ship is the youngest brother Anil
also present in telecoms and energy as well as media, public works and construction. He is
given for a thousand billion rupees in turnover (13,4 billion € ) with a 100 000 strong workforce.

It was only in January 2015 that Reliance ADA invested in defense business by buying Pipavav
Defence and Offshore Engineering, a company active in aeronautics, submarines, warships &
oil drilling platforms. Since rechristened Reliance Defence and Engineering, it is also listed in
Bombay's S.E.

Tay transl.

http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/arti...-groupe-indien-reliance-ada_5008423_3234.html

As promised and good day all, Tay.


Why is it that we Indians are always doomed to choose between the bad & the worst ? I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that piece of news .In 15 years & I'm willing to bet the last rupee in my wallet & bank , we'd be heaping abuses on Reliance the way we do on HAL today.For not too many different reasons too.Mark my words.
 
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^^^ Have heard some good things about the shipyard they took over. It seems they have really fine tuned the work culture there and are delivering before schedule.
 
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^^^ Have heard some good things about the shipyard they took over. It seems they have really fine tuned the work culture there and are delivering before schedule.


Professional competency does not mitigate political or financial skullduggery.That's the larger point I was striving to make.
 
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Professional competency does not mitigate political or financial skullduggery.

All big economies and most democracies suffer from it.
In America, it's SuperPACs and lobbying, In France it's
les affaires, etc.

Fixing the first part depends on the morality of politicians
& corporations so don't hold your breath but the second
could be minimized with proper laws.

Judging from history and my knowledge of humans, I'd
strongly suggest going to the next item on your To Do list
and coming back to this one once the rest is done.

Just sayin', Tay.
 
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All big economies and most democracies suffer from it.
In America, it's SuperPACs and lobbying, In France it's
les affaires, etc.

Fixing the first part depends on the morality of politicians
& corporations so don't hold your breath but the second
could be minimized with proper laws.

Judging from history and my knowledge of humans, I'd
strongly suggest going to the next item on your To Do list
and coming back to this one once the rest is done.

Just sayin', Tay.


Sadly , what you say is true.The more things change the more the remain the same.
 
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I confirm that Mirage 2000N never carried AN-52 bombs. Dixit my uncle who is a 5 star general, former commander of the Force Aérienne TACtique ( FATAC ) and Mirage IIIE/2000N pilot.
It was primarily built for mirage III basically, it was kept for interim purpose for Mirage 2000 N 1 version till Asmp was developed.

So it never carried the bomb as there was no need for that though wiki claimed it did carry but yes wiki can't be trusted
CHEERS
 
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This is the current HAL production output,

Su30MKI per year - 12
HAWK per year - 18
Dornier 228 per year - 6 (reduced production)
LCA - 12 ( to be increased to 16)
Dhruv - 25 (to be increased to 60)
Cheetah - 12 (total 246)
Chetak - 12 (total 336)
Lancer - 4

That is a total Production of almost 100 aircrafts per Year. This is set to increase considerably in the near future.

Besides that it also produces the following,

LCH - (600 in 15 years)

LUH - (trial/certification model)

IJT - (trial/certification model)

Rustom (UAV)

Nishant (UAV)

Saras (trial/certification model)

PSLV - Heat Shield Assembly, Nose Cone Assembly and Tank

GLSV - Heat Shield Assembly, Nose Cone Assembly and Tank

Satellites - Shrouds used in Satellites.

Turbine Engines for IN ships.

Engines for all the above mentioned Aircraft's and Helicopters.


Its one thing to do propaganda, quite another to believe in your own propaganda.
With all due respect, the list you made doesn't look that impressive.
 
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