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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

He takes 9 to 12 months more than needed to firm, and now he want an urgent delivery ! :o:

But a customer is always right .....:mad:


take some more years pleaaaaase !


No clear indication about the 18 ...... or do you have some source?

We must not exaggerate the reproaches to Parrikar. 18 months were essential especially in relation to the need to establish a state commitment to state from scratch. The difficulties to federate the various Indian ministries have also made things worse.
Meanwhile, Thales had time to refine how to enable offsets for position at best for the future: for example it is matter of installing support benches to facilitate engagement of 75% availability but can also be used for production of serial equipment ...
 
.
We must not exaggerate the reproaches to Parrikar. 18 months were essential especially in relation to the need to establish a state commitment to state from scratch. The difficulties to federate the various Indian ministries have also made things worse.
Meanwhile, Thales had time to refine how to enable offsets for position at best for the future: for example it is matter of installing support benches to facilitate engagement of 75% availability but can also be used for production of serial equipment ...

Weather was the main culprit. The discussions ended in May if you recall.
 
.
No it won't, at least not without a vector. Since ASMP wasn't sold and Brahmos-NG
having started development in May of this year only is a few years to fruition, the
above statement is a fallacy. Fr Raffys can nuke, Indian Rafales won't ... for now..

it looks absurd to me as brahmos NG is for later stages right now Brahmos A would do the job
Please give a source for 'NG development starting' part

From last year:
Concept-wise, it is very attractive. But, so many developments are taking place and hence we are not able to come up with a definitive plan. It is much smaller in size and range is quite good and it can be launched from several platforms. An aircraft can carry two or three BRAHMOS-NG. It can go into torpedo tubes and smaller ships can use them too. Even a missile boat can carry it. It is miniaturization of the missile and its range will not be affected and it will go the full distance in the ideal trajectory. But in other trajectories, it may reduce. We have not started the programme and it is too early to discuss it. But it is one of the business prospects.

http://www.brahmos.com/pressRelease.php?id=54
 
. .
you are asking for proof
that too in a forum which is of a nationality that is very friendly to our nation :lol:

Beleive it or not
India have plutonium based free falling unguided nuclear bombs which are lighter ,smaller & easiear to carry

PLZ dont expect anymore info from me apart from that .
.
For your kind information
we do have a strategic force command .Luckily it claims we have a triad of 2nd strike capabilty after induction of arihant sub.:angel:

BTW we are not fools spending billion dollars on buying a plane which cant be nuclear capable like rafale :pleasantry:

whatver it may be regarding Brahmos airlaunched version i am quite sure by the time rafale is inducted in IAF it would
have been part of su 30mki squadron . So no big deal to integrate brahmos on rafale which france have alraedy agreed

so for your previous post
No it won't, at least not without a vector. Since ASMP wasn't sold and Brahmos-NG
having started development in May of this year only is a few years to fruition, the
above statement is a fallacy. Fr Raffys can nuke, Indian Rafales won't ... for now..

it looks absurd to me as brahmos NG is for later stages right now Brahmos A would do the job



CHEERS

You got hyped for nothing, DrSomnath.
I know what India has and about Brahmos variants, of which the NG is
not done as Agent47 told you and it can't be tested until it's ready, can it?
Free fall bombs don't count because they can be used from just about
any fighter and more if affinity. I answered as much regarding the B-61.

Re-read my full answer :
"I take it you then have relative proof of an existing Indian nuclear weapon
that the contract states will be ported on those Rafale
. If so, would you mind
sharing that information?"


France did not include nukes and so articles saying India has made its deterrence
a lot better are wrong. It can come to be once what you described is incorporated to
those Indian Rafales but that has not happened quite yet, that's all!



Yeah, and I thought a tiger livery would befit our Indian friends most. Makes sense.

Good evening all, Tay.
 
.
Rafale fighter jet deal to create thousands of jobs, India Inc to get 3 bn Euros worth biz
This clause is expected to boost indigenous defence production with transfer of technology and joint ventures with local partner firms
By: Huma Siddiqui | Updated: October 10, 2016 7:25 AM




rafale-reuters.jpg
The 7.87 billion Euro agreement between India and France for the 36 Rafale fighter jets comes with a 50% offset clause which means that Indian companies will get business worth over 3 billion euros and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets. (Reuters)


A decade after then defence minister AK Antony approved the Request for Proposal to buy 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft, the Indian Air Force will get its first Rafale fighter jets in the next 33 months from French company Dassault Aviation. The 36 aircraft that the IAF will get will replace the ailing MiGs. The first plane will be delivered within three and half years, and the entire lot in five years.

The 7.87 billion Euro agreement between India and France for the 36 Rafale fighter jets comes with a 50% offset clause which means that Indian companies will get business worth over 3 billion euros and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets. This is reportedly the largest ever offset contract in India’s history. This clause is expected to boost indigenous defence production with transfer of technology, joint ventures with local partner firms, licensed production and even perhaps relocation of production lines in the long run.

“The offset clause of 50% in the Rafale deal will provide a great opportunity for indigenous manufacturers such as us who have put in years of effort to develop world-class technology within the country,” says Puneet Kaura, MD and CEO, Samtel Avionics. “It further outlines the commitment made by the Indian government to promote the Indian manufacturing industry and support indigenisation of defence needs of the country. There is also a possibility for India to become a global manufacturing hub for these fighter planes in case there is successful transfer of technology.”
Since Dassault Aviation Company was not keen on transfer of technology, under the 50% offset clause, it has agreed to help India with the Light Combat Aircraft MK 2 and AMCA.

French company Snecma (Safran)( a Dassault partner along with Thales) has proposed to invest Euro one billion in the Kaveri Gas Turbine Engine to be fitted in the LCA MK1A. Safran has developed the M88 engine that powers the Rafale as well as the Shakti engine for Indian advanced light helicopters (ALH) ‘Dhruv’.

MBDA will work with Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to transfer Thrust Vectoring technologies that are expected to be used in Astra and other missiles putting them at the level of Meteor—making the missiles more lethal.
Under the deal, the French company has agreed to transfer the special spray paint and coating technology which is of immense benefit to Indian programmes, including LCA, AMCA, SU-30 MKI and FGFA.


Also, it is expected that 36 combat machines could get the final layer of the stealth paint here in India as part of Make in India initiative.
The radar technology on Rafale can easily be adapted to other aircrafts in IAF. As part of the deal, the multimode AESA radar technology will be transferred to DRDO for application on UTTAM AESA radar.
The high-end twin engine aircraft with a state-of-the-art electronic scanning radar will certainly add to the IAF’s capabilities. The MBDA’s new-age Meteor Beyond Visual Range missile, can hit targets over 150 km away, without entering the enemy airspace before launching an attack. The aircraft is also capable of firing nuclear missiles.

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/rafael-fighter-jet-deal-to-create-thousands-of-jobs-india-inc-to-get-3-bn-euros-worth-biz/412366/
++++
Finally its out in public domain

  • LCA MK2 and AMCA Help
  • Safranised Kaveri to be fitted in LCA Mk1A
  • Thrust Vectoring to Astra
  • RAM coating and technology behind it for application to LCA, AMCA, Su30 MKI and FGFA
  • RBE2 AESA tech and code and application to all IAF inventory (a direct competition to 2052) via TOT to Uttam AESA
So long we kept saying the same..

I like the line when Newspaper says DA is not keen for TOT and yet it gives all this as part of the offsets.. I hope they were not expecting to part it for free rather now with so much deep inroads via such MIC level cooperation and making the ecosystem ready for a cutting edge fighter plane manufacturing, it serves the very purpose we all wanted to begin with.

The question to wonder is with so much cooperation why would India, France and Dassault stop at just 36. And if suppose thats the reality that its just say 36 so for say 90 odd jets how much a single engine aircraft like LWF has to give as part of the technology and priceto better the deal as its now a benchmark along with legacy MKI deal for HAL.

A nice start to the week.. Enjoy

@Abingdonboy - Its as per what we discussed - LCA and AMCA .. Safranised Kaveri for Mk1A. You will see uprated Kaveri too going into AMCA. In a way its now a gamechanger for India bcz other manufacturers have to offer a Engine tech in full to entice India into buying or shell out other goodies with re engine option.. Its gonna make life very difficult for LWF folks

@Abingdonboy @anant_s @Taygibay @Picdelamirand-oil @Vergennes @randomradio @Ankit Kumar 002 @MilSpec @Koovie @Echo_419 @Dash @hellfire @ito @SR-91 @AMCA @DesiGuy1403 @ranjeet @hellfire @fsayed @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @nair @proud_indian @Roybot @jbgt90 @Sergi @Water Car Engineer @dadeechi @kurup @Rain Man @kaykay @Joe Shearer @Tshering22 @Dandpatta @danger007 @Didact @Soumitra @SrNair @TejasMk3@jbgt90 @ranjeet @4GTejasBVR @The_Showstopper @guest11 @egodoc222 @Nilgiri @SarthakGanguly @Omega007 @GURU DUTT @HariPrasad @JanjaWeed @litefire @AMCA @Perpendicular @Spectre@litefire @AMCA @Perpendicular@Ryuzaki @CorporateAffairs @GR!FF!N @migflug @Levina@SvenSvensonov @-xXx- @Perpendicular @proud_indian @Mustang06 @Param @Local_Legend @Ali Zadi @hellfire @egodoc222 @CorporateAffairs @Major Shaitan Singh @jha @SmilingBuddha @#hydra# @danish_vij @[Bregs] @Skillrex @Hephaestus @SR-91 @Techy @litefire @R!CK @zebra7 @dev_moh @DesiGuy1403 @itachii @nik141993 @Marxist @Glorino @noksss @jbgt90 @Skull and Bones @Kraitcorp @Crixus @waz @WAJsal @Oscar @AugenBlick @Star Wars @GuardianRED @arp2041 @Aero @Armani @salarsikander https://defence.pk/members/enquencher.34831/ @others @Agent_47
 
. . .
Rafale fighter jet deal to create thousands of jobs, India Inc to get 3 bn Euros worth biz
This clause is expected to boost indigenous defence production with transfer of technology and joint ventures with local partner firms
By: Huma Siddiqui | Updated: October 10, 2016 7:25 AM




rafale-reuters.jpg
The 7.87 billion Euro agreement between India and France for the 36 Rafale fighter jets comes with a 50% offset clause which means that Indian companies will get business worth over 3 billion euros and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets. (Reuters)


A decade after then defence minister AK Antony approved the Request for Proposal to buy 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft, the Indian Air Force will get its first Rafale fighter jets in the next 33 months from French company Dassault Aviation. The 36 aircraft that the IAF will get will replace the ailing MiGs. The first plane will be delivered within three and half years, and the entire lot in five years.

The 7.87 billion Euro agreement between India and France for the 36 Rafale fighter jets comes with a 50% offset clause which means that Indian companies will get business worth over 3 billion euros and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets. This is reportedly the largest ever offset contract in India’s history. This clause is expected to boost indigenous defence production with transfer of technology, joint ventures with local partner firms, licensed production and even perhaps relocation of production lines in the long run.

“The offset clause of 50% in the Rafale deal will provide a great opportunity for indigenous manufacturers such as us who have put in years of effort to develop world-class technology within the country,” says Puneet Kaura, MD and CEO, Samtel Avionics. “It further outlines the commitment made by the Indian government to promote the Indian manufacturing industry and support indigenisation of defence needs of the country. There is also a possibility for India to become a global manufacturing hub for these fighter planes in case there is successful transfer of technology.”
Since Dassault Aviation Company was not keen on transfer of technology, under the 50% offset clause, it has agreed to help India with the Light Combat Aircraft MK 2 and AMCA.

French company Snecma (Safran)( a Dassault partner along with Thales) has proposed to invest Euro one billion in the Kaveri Gas Turbine Engine to be fitted in the LCA MK1A. Safran has developed the M88 engine that powers the Rafale as well as the Shakti engine for Indian advanced light helicopters (ALH) ‘Dhruv’.

MBDA will work with Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to transfer Thrust Vectoring technologies that are expected to be used in Astra and other missiles putting them at the level of Meteor—making the missiles more lethal.
Under the deal, the French company has agreed to transfer the special spray paint and coating technology which is of immense benefit to Indian programmes, including LCA, AMCA, SU-30 MKI and FGFA.


Also, it is expected that 36 combat machines could get the final layer of the stealth paint here in India as part of Make in India initiative.
The radar technology on Rafale can easily be adapted to other aircrafts in IAF. As part of the deal, the multimode AESA radar technology will be transferred to DRDO for application on UTTAM AESA radar.
The high-end twin engine aircraft with a state-of-the-art electronic scanning radar will certainly add to the IAF’s capabilities. The MBDA’s new-age Meteor Beyond Visual Range missile, can hit targets over 150 km away, without entering the enemy airspace before launching an attack. The aircraft is also capable of firing nuclear missiles.

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/rafael-fighter-jet-deal-to-create-thousands-of-jobs-india-inc-to-get-3-bn-euros-worth-biz/412366/
++++
Finally its out in public domain

  • LCA MK2 and AMCA Help
  • Safranised Kaveri to be fitted in LCA Mk1A
  • Thrust Vectoring to Astra
  • RAM coating and technology behind it for application to LCA, AMCA, Su30 MKI and FGFA
  • RBE2 AESA tech and code and application to all IAF inventory (a direct competition to 2052) via TOT to Uttam AESA
So long we kept saying the same..

I like the line when Newspaper says DA is not keen for TOT and yet it gives all this as part of the offsets.. I hope they were not expecting to part it for free rather now with so much deep inroads via such MIC level cooperation and making the ecosystem ready for a cutting edge fighter plane manufacturing, it serves the very purpose we all wanted to begin with.

The question to wonder is with so much cooperation why would India, France and Dassault stop at just 36. And if suppose thats the reality that its just say 36 so for say 90 odd jets how much a single engine aircraft like LWF has to give as part of the technology and priceto better the deal as its now a benchmark along with legacy MKI deal for HAL.

A nice start to the week.. Enjoy

@Abingdonboy - Its as per what we discussed - LCA and AMCA .. Safranised Kaveri for Mk1A. You will see uprated Kaveri too going into AMCA. In a way its now a gamechanger for India bcz other manufacturers have to offer a Engine tech in full to entice India into buying or shell out other goodies with re engine option.. Its gonna make life very difficult for LWF folks

@Abingdonboy @anant_s @Taygibay @Picdelamirand-oil @Vergennes @randomradio @Ankit Kumar 002 @MilSpec @Koovie @Echo_419 @Dash @hellfire @ito @SR-91 @AMCA @DesiGuy1403 @ranjeet @hellfire @fsayed @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @nair @proud_indian @Roybot @jbgt90 @Sergi @Water Car Engineer @dadeechi @kurup @Rain Man @kaykay @Joe Shearer @Tshering22 @Dandpatta @danger007 @Didact @Soumitra @SrNair @TejasMk3@jbgt90 @ranjeet @4GTejasBVR @The_Showstopper @guest11 @egodoc222 @Nilgiri @SarthakGanguly @Omega007 @GURU DUTT @HariPrasad @JanjaWeed @litefire @AMCA @Perpendicular @Spectre@litefire @AMCA @Perpendicular@Ryuzaki @CorporateAffairs @GR!FF!N @migflug @Levina@SvenSvensonov @-xXx- @Perpendicular @proud_indian @Mustang06 @Param @Local_Legend @Ali Zadi @hellfire @egodoc222 @CorporateAffairs @Major Shaitan Singh @jha @SmilingBuddha @#hydra# @danish_vij @[Bregs] @Skillrex @Hephaestus @SR-91 @Techy @litefire @R!CK @zebra7 @dev_moh @DesiGuy1403 @itachii @nik141993 @Marxist @Glorino @noksss @jbgt90 @Skull and Bones @Kraitcorp @Crixus @waz @WAJsal @Oscar @AugenBlick @Star Wars @GuardianRED @arp2041 @Aero @Armani @salarsikander https://defence.pk/members/enquencher.34831/ @others @Agent_47

More than anything , I want the MII part to at least start being negotiated. It will free up a lot confusion.

And if Kaveri upgrade is actually happening, this signals one important thing. I.e. more MK1A ....

Just wish that these HAL walas and MoD settle the production issues and get a production line to a private company.
 
.
MII of Rafale is going to happen, now point is when ?

Delivery of 36+18 will take time to complete by 2022
 
.
http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...india-inc-to-get-3-bn-euros-worth-biz/412366/

rafale-reuters.jpg



A decade after then defence minister AK Antony approved the Request for Proposal to buy 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft, the Indian Air Force will get its first Rafale fighter jets in the next 33 months from French company Dassault Aviation. The 36 aircraft that the IAF will get will replace the ailing MiGs. The first plane will be delivered within three and half years, and the entire lot in five years.

The 7.87 billion Euro agreement between India and France for the 36 Rafale fighter jets comes with a 50% offset clause which means that Indian companies will get business worth over 3 billion euros and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets. This is reportedly the largest ever offset contract in India’s history. This clause is expected to boost indigenous defence production with transfer of technology, joint ventures with local partner firms, licensed production and even perhaps relocation of production lines in the long run.

“The offset clause of 50% in the Rafale deal will provide a great opportunity for indigenous manufacturers such as us who have put in years of effort to develop world-class technology within the country,” says Puneet Kaura, MD and CEO, Samtel Avionics. “It further outlines the commitment made by the Indian government to promote the Indian manufacturing industry and support indigenisation of defence needs of the country. There is also a possibility for India to become a global manufacturing hub for these fighter planes in case there is successful transfer of technology.”
Since Dassault Aviation Company was not keen on transfer of technology, under the 50% offset clause, it has agreed to help India with the Light Combat Aircraft MK 2 and AMCA.
Rafale_Manufacturing_1.jpg

French company Snecma (Safran)( a Dassault partner along with Thales) has proposed to invest Euro one billion in the Kaveri Gas Turbine Engine to be fitted in the LCA MK1A. Safran has developed the M88 engine that powers the Rafale as well as the Shakti engine for Indian advanced light helicopters (ALH) ‘Dhruv’.

MBDA will work with Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to transfer Thrust Vectoring technologies that are expected to be used in Astra and other missiles putting them at the level of Meteor—making the missiles more lethal.
Under the deal, the French company has agreed to transfer the special spray paint and coating technology which is of immense benefit to Indian programmes, including LCA, AMCA, SU-30 MKI and FGFA.

Also, it is expected that 36 combat machines could get the final layer of the stealth paint here in India as part of Make in India initiative.


The radar technology on Rafale can easily be adapted to other aircrafts in IAF. As part of the deal, the multimode AESA radar technology will be transferred to DRDO for application on UTTAM AESA radar.
The high-end twin engine aircraft with a state-of-the-art electronic scanning radar will certainly add to the IAF’s capabilities. The MBDA’s new-age Meteor Beyond Visual Range missile, can hit targets over 150 km away, without entering the enemy airspace before launching an attack. The aircraft is also capable of firing nuclear missiles.
 
.
rafale-reuters.jpg
The 7.87 billion Euro agreement between India and France for the 36 Rafale fighter jets comes with a 50% offset clause which means that Indian companies will get business worth over 3 billion euros and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets. (Reuters)


A decade after then defence minister AK Antony approved the Request for Proposal to buy 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft, the Indian Air Force will get its first Rafale fighter jets in the next 33 months from French company Dassault Aviation. The 36 aircraft that the IAF will get will replace the ailing MiGs. The first plane will be delivered within three and half years, and the entire lot in five years.

The 7.87 billion Euro agreement between India and France for the 36 Rafale fighter jets comes with a 50% offset clause which means that Indian companies will get business worth over 3 billion euros and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets. This is reportedly the largest ever offset contract in India’s history. This clause is expected to boost indigenous defence production with transfer of technology, joint ventures with local partner firms, licensed production and even perhaps relocation of production lines in the long run.

“The offset clause of 50% in the Rafale deal will provide a great opportunity for indigenous manufacturers such as us who have put in years of effort to develop world-class technology within the country,” says Puneet Kaura, MD and CEO, Samtel Avionics. “It further outlines the commitment made by the Indian government to promote the Indian manufacturing industry and support indigenisation of defence needs of the country. There is also a possibility for India to become a global manufacturing hub for these fighter planes in case there is successful transfer of technology.”
Since Dassault Aviation Company was not keen on transfer of technology, under the 50% offset clause, it has agreed to help India with the Light Combat Aircraft MK 2 and AMCA.
[/FONT]
French company Snecma (Safran)( a Dassault partner along with Thales) has proposed to invest Euro one billion in the Kaveri Gas Turbine Engine to be fitted in the LCA MK1A. Safran has developed the M88 engine that powers the Rafale as well as the Shakti engine for Indian advanced light helicopters (ALH) ‘Dhruv’.

MBDA will work with Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to transfer Thrust Vectoring technologies that are expected to be used in Astra and other missiles putting them at the level of Meteor—making the missiles more lethal.
Under the deal, the French company has agreed to transfer the special spray paint and coating technology which is of immense benefit to Indian programmes, including LCA, AMCA, SU-30 MKI and FGFA.


Also, it is expected that 36 combat machines could get the final layer of the stealth paint here in India as part of Make in Indiainitiative.
The radar technology on Rafale can easily be adapted to other aircrafts in IAF. As part of the deal, the multimode AESA radar technology will be transferred to DRDO for application on UTTAM AESA radar.
The high-end twin engine aircraft with a state-of-the-art electronic scanning radar will certainly add to the IAF’s capabilities. The MBDA’s new-age Meteor Beyond Visual Range missile, can hit targets over 150 km away, without entering the enemy airspace before launching an attack. The aircraft is also capable of firing nuclear missiles.

++++
Finally its out in public domain

  • LCA MK2 and AMCA Help
  • Safranised Kaveri to be fitted in LCA Mk1A
  • Thrust Vectoring to Astra
  • RAM coating and technology behind it for application to LCA, AMCA, Su30 MKI and FGFA
  • RBE2 AESA tech and code and application to all IAF inventory (a direct competition to 2052) via TOT to Uttam AESA
So long we kept saying the same..

I like the line when Newspaper says DA is not keen for TOT and yet it gives all this as part of the offsets.. I hope they were not expecting to part it for free rather now with so much deep inroads via such MIC level cooperation and making the ecosystem ready for a cutting edge fighter plane manufacturing, it serves the very purpose we all wanted to begin with.

The question to wonder is with so much cooperation why would India, France and Dassault stop at just 36. And if suppose thats the reality that its just say 36 so for say 90 odd jets how much a single engine aircraft like LWF has to give as part of the technology and priceto better the deal as its now a benchmark along with legacy MKI deal for HAL.

A nice start to the week.. Enjoy

@Abingdonboy - Its as per what we discussed - LCA and AMCA .. Safranised Kaveri for Mk1A. You will see uprated Kaveri too going into AMCA. In a way its now a gamechanger for India bcz other manufacturers have to offer a Engine tech in full to entice India into buying or shell out other goodies with re engine option.. Its gonna make life very difficult for LWF folks

This is a classic case of people seeing what they want to see.

But these are what the article EXPLICITLY states.

1. Of 7.87 Billion Euro, ONLY 3 Billion $ will be DEEMED invested in India. This is even less than 40%. Its only 38%. THIS is the real value of the Offset. (on paper). NOT Actually invested, ONLY Deemed Invested.

2. Dassault Aviation Company is not keen on transfer of technology, under the 50% offset clause. and setting up production in India.

3. Govt. of India had to WORK AROUND this reluctance and find a different solution.

4. Snecma will now CLAIM credit of 1 billio $ after helping Kaveri come to fruition. This will not be any Actualy investment of 1 billion $ in Real money.


5. Dassault will be able to CLAIM 1 billion $ WHEN the Kaveri becomes ready after its help. So any actualy job creation will be only AFTER the Kaveri is compelted, Certified, Fitted on the aircraft, Aircraft then certified AND THEN when production begins. A good 8-10 years in the future.

6. Production will be in HAL so any jobs created will be in HAL.

7. MBDA will transfer tech to Astra and then Dassault can then CLAIM an offset of couple of hunder million $.

8. Again ANY job creation will be AFTER the missile is tested, certified, accpted by AF and THEN productin beings. Only this job creation will ALSO be in Bharat Dynamics, another PSU.

9. Spray Paint and coating technology will be transferd (Probably to HAL or maybe Reliance) and then Dassaut can again CLAIM offset for a coupld of hundred million $. Again NO ACTUAL INVESTMENT will be made by Dassault.

10. All in all the 'Offset' will allow for limited Tech transfer but will result in MINIMAL Dassault money being invested in India. ANY and All investements will be by Indian companies.

11. Any job creation will be in hundres not in thousands and most of them will be in PSU. Even then the priority will be to Re-Train existing staff, so it is unlikey any new jobs will be created.


12. These Offset will not be any real Monetary Investment, it will only be ToT of deemed equivalent and Claimed by Dassault.


13. Finally This makes it perfectly clear that No more Rafale will be purchaased . ALL ToT will be for existing Indian projects Like LCA, Astra and Kaveri (Maybe AURA), not to build any more Rafale.



I hope NOW the 'fan boys' can get this through their thick skull and finally stop this public masturbation for more Rafales.

MII of Rafale is going to happen, now point is when ?

Delivery of 36+18 will take time to complete by 2022

LOL.... NO MII of Rafale is going to happen. Ever.
 
.
This is a classic case of people seeing what they want to see.

But these are what the article EXPLICITLY states.

1. Of 7.87 Billion Euro, ONLY 3 Billion $ will be DEEMED invested in India. This is even less than 40%. Its only 38%. THIS is the real value of the Offset. (on paper). NOT Actually invested, ONLY Deemed Invested.

2. Dassault Aviation Company is not keen on transfer of technology, under the 50% offset clause. and setting up production in India.

3. Govt. of India had to WORK AROUND this reluctance and find a different solution.

4. Snecma will now CLAIM credit of 1 billio $ after helping Kaveri come to fruition. This will not be any Actualy investment of 1 billion $ in Real money.


5. Dassault will be able to CLAIM 1 billion $ WHEN the Kaveri becomes ready after its help. So any actualy job creation will be only AFTER the Kaveri is compelted, Certified, Fitted on the aircraft, Aircraft then certified AND THEN when production begins. A good 8-10 years in the future.

6. Production will be in HAL so any jobs created will be in HAL.

7. MBDA will transfer tech to Astra and then Dassault can then CLAIM an offset of couple of hunder million $.

8. Again ANY job creation will be AFTER the missile is tested, certified, accpted by AF and THEN productin beings. Only this job creation will ALSO be in Bharat Dynamics, another PSU.

9. Spray Paint and coating technology will be transferd (Probably to HAL or maybe Reliance) and then Dassaut can again CLAIM offset for a coupld of hundred million $. Again NO ACTUAL INVESTMENT will be made by Dassault.

10. All in all the 'Offset' will allow for limited Tech transfer but will result in MINIMAL Dassault money being invested in India. ANY and All investements will be by Indian companies.

11. Any job creation will be in hundres not in thousands and most of them will be in PSU. Even then the priority will be to Re-Train existing staff, so it is unlikey any new jobs will be created.


12. These Offset will not be any real Monetary Investment, it will only be ToT of deemed equivalent and Claimed by Dassault.


13. Finally This makes it perfectly clear that No more Rafale will be purchaased . ALL ToT will be for existing Indian projects Like LCA, Astra and Kaveri (Maybe AURA), not to build any more Rafale.


I hope NOW the 'fan boys' can get this through their thick skull and finally stop this public masturbation for more Rafales.



LOL.... NO MII of Rafale is going to happen. Ever.

money well spent as a gap-plugging interim measure without ToT
 
.
This is a classic case of people seeing what they want to see.

But these are what the article EXPLICITLY states.

1. Of 7.87 Billion Euro, ONLY 3 Billion $ will be DEEMED invested in India. This is even less than 40%. Its only 38%. THIS is the real value of the Offset. (on paper). NOT Actually invested, ONLY Deemed Invested.

2. Dassault Aviation Company is not keen on transfer of technology, under the 50% offset clause. and setting up production in India.

3. Govt. of India had to WORK AROUND this reluctance and find a different solution.

4. Snecma will now CLAIM credit of 1 billio $ after helping Kaveri come to fruition. This will not be any Actualy investment of 1 billion $ in Real money.


5. Dassault will be able to CLAIM 1 billion $ WHEN the Kaveri becomes ready after its help. So any actualy job creation will be only AFTER the Kaveri is compelted, Certified, Fitted on the aircraft, Aircraft then certified AND THEN when production begins. A good 8-10 years in the future.

6. Production will be in HAL so any jobs created will be in HAL.

7. MBDA will transfer tech to Astra and then Dassault can then CLAIM an offset of couple of hunder million $.

8. Again ANY job creation will be AFTER the missile is tested, certified, accpted by AF and THEN productin beings. Only this job creation will ALSO be in Bharat Dynamics, another PSU.

9. Spray Paint and coating technology will be transferd (Probably to HAL or maybe Reliance) and then Dassaut can again CLAIM offset for a coupld of hundred million $. Again NO ACTUAL INVESTMENT will be made by Dassault.

10. All in all the 'Offset' will allow for limited Tech transfer but will result in MINIMAL Dassault money being invested in India. ANY and All investements will be by Indian companies.

11. Any job creation will be in hundres not in thousands and most of them will be in PSU. Even then the priority will be to Re-Train existing staff, so it is unlikey any new jobs will be created.


12. These Offset will not be any real Monetary Investment, it will only be ToT of deemed equivalent and Claimed by Dassault.


13. Finally This makes it perfectly clear that No more Rafale will be purchaased . ALL ToT will be for existing Indian projects Like LCA, Astra and Kaveri (Maybe AURA), not to build any more Rafale.



I hope NOW the 'fan boys' can get this through their thick skull and finally stop this public masturbation for more Rafales.



LOL.... NO MII of Rafale is going to happen. Ever.


^^ Third account in a week ?!
You are so obsessed dude. Now, get a beer and chill.:cheers:
 
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@PARIKRAMA

Reading the posts above...

Do they ever stop...?

Nope! Results don't matter to them. Outcomes of their previous bouts of "skepticism" doesn't matter. Credibility doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that all the people who've been following the Rafale deal for the last couple of years are now well beyond the point of actually believing that any negative/down-scaling of the deal is going to happen now - and everyone has seen that the anti-Rafale junta is ridiculous & baseless.

  • When MMRCA was on, they said Rafale wouldn't even be considered for the shortlist.

  • When Rafale & Typhoon were shortlisted, they said there was no way that Rafale, which hadn't made any international sales by that time, can stand up to Typhoon which was already sold to 5-6 countries.

  • When Rafale was declared L-1 bidder, they were full-on crazy and started calling for cancellation of the whole deal. This was the time when all the rhetoric about MKI+Tejas removing the need for MRCA started gaining traction.

  • When MMRCA was called off, the junta had a brief moment of joy...

  • ...until MoD started direct negotiations with Dassault. Removing any doubt in any sane person's head that IAF had found the Rafale to be adequate and wanted it. However the junta's relentless campaign against Raffy was adamant that the deal will not go through.

  • Then, the deal was signed. A part of the junta (the more self-respecting ones) disappeared. Now, the most vicious strain of the anti-Rafale junta remains - their tirade hasn't stopped. Now their argument is that the deal will stop at 36 and no more will be procured.

I can already see the future...

  • When MII happens (and it will), the junta will be engaged in finding holes in the whole program. They will be desperate beyond words...a delay in the progression of some subject? Rafale is a fail. Some worker at the MII factories was caught drunk? Rafale is a fail. Some equipment in the production line shorts out? Rafale is a fail.

Such will be their tactics.

I'm telling you - such dedication for springing dirt on a program for years & years...it cannot come from anyone's personal conclusions or some kind of weirdly vicious nationalism. No. There are economic interests behind this. However, most of the less-dedicated junta has washed away - now only the most cynical remain.

Each attack on IAF Rafale program from now on will be from this group - Pure, utterly dedicated, and completely rabid. However, it doesn't really matter. The deal is here to stay...and no sane Air Force with the size & requirements of IAF can afford to stop a procurement at just 36 planes...it doesn't make any sense from either a tactical perspective or economies-of-scale perspective.
 
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