Stephen Cohen
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What about the loss of time ; Isn t that Hurting IAF
Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]
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What about the loss of time ; Isn t that Hurting IAF
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France offers to kickstart Kaveri engine for indigenous Tejas aircraft
France has offered to help India revive the unsuccessful Kaveri engine project for indigenous Tejas aircraft and a host of other high-end collaboration as part of the offsets in the multi-billion Euro Rafale fighter plane deal which is now in the final stages.
Defence sources said the file on the purchase of the 36 Rafale aircraft in a fly-away condition from France has been finalised and is likely to be put up before Prime Minister Narendra Modi soon.
The estimated cost of the deal is about 7.89 billion Euros and entails a 50 per cent offset clause.
Under the offset agreement, which was discussed last year, the French side has made a 30 per cent offset commitment for military aerospace research and development programmes and the rest 20 per cent for making components of Rafales here.
The offsets will be carried out by French companies Safran, Thales, MBDA and Dassault, all part of the Rafale project.
As per the initial agreed points, the French have offered to provide stealth, radar and thrust vectoring for missiles technologies besides others to DRDO and domestic defence firms.
“The French government has in principle agreed on these points under the offset commitments. Once a final contract for 36 Rafale aircraft is signed, the French government will give subject wise clearance and concrete talks will start,” a defence source said.
The French have also agreed in principle to collaborate on the Kaveri engine which lacks the real power thrust needed to fly the Tejas.
An upgraded Kaveri engine with 90 kN thrust compared to the existing 72 kN can be developed with French cooperation which can eventually be used for Tejas which currently uses an American engine.
“The negotiations on offsets were carried out last year with DRDO and some other agencies. Once the contract for the Rafales is signed, there will be a six months window to finalise the offset,” a source said.
The French are hoping that they will have a bigger share in the Indian defence market and see the Rafale contract as a great breakthrough. They are also hoping that India will eventually go in for more Rafale aircraft, possibly under the ‘Make in India’ route.
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ngine-for-indegenious-tejas-aircraft-2899655/
France has offered to help India revive the unsuccessful Kaveri engine project for indigenous Tejas aircraft and a host of other high-end collaboration as part of the offsets in the multi-billion Euro Rafale fighter plane deal which is now in the final stages.
Defence sources said the file on the purchase of the 36 Rafale aircraft in a fly-away condition from France has been finalised and is likely to be put up before Prime Minister Narendra Modi soon.
The estimated cost of the deal is about 7.89 billion Euros and entails a 50 per cent offset clause.
Under the offset agreement, which was discussed last year, the French side has made a 30 per cent offset commitment for military aerospace research and development programmes and the rest 20 per cent for making components of Rafales here.
The offsets will be carried out by French companies Safran, Thales, MBDA and Dassault, all part of the Rafale project.
As per the initial agreed points, the French have offered to provide stealth, radar and thrust vectoring for missiles technologies besides others to DRDO and domestic defence firms.
“The French government has in principle agreed on these points under the offset commitments. Once a final contract for 36 Rafale aircraft is signed, the French government will give subject wise clearance and concrete talks will start,” a defence source said.
The French have also agreed in principle to collaborate on the Kaveri engine which lacks the real power thrust needed to fly the Tejas.
An upgraded Kaveri engine with 90 kN thrust compared to the existing 72 kN can be developed with French cooperation which can eventually be used for Tejas which currently uses an American engine.
“The negotiations on offsets were carried out last year with DRDO and some other agencies. Once the contract for the Rafales is signed, there will be a six months window to finalise the offset,” a source said.
The French are hoping that they will have a bigger share in the Indian defence market and see the Rafale contract as a great breakthrough. They are also hoping that India will eventually go in for more Rafale aircraft, possibly under the ‘Make in India’ route.
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ngine-for-indegenious-tejas-aircraft-2899655/
Agent_47
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Not much in my opinion. Even with 2013-14 contract signing estimate second sqd was estimated around 2019-20, Because it was HAL made. Not that two sqd are imported same can be true.
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? any source for that? I've read some months ago that a german EF "killed" at least one F22.... true? not true? in BVR? WVR?
And all trials between F22 and onother planes were under US rules only...
randomradio
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Light Stealth Aircraft. A new light 5th gen aircraft.
randomradio
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An F/A-18F (lot 27 prototype EA-18G) did indeed put an F-22 into the dirt with an AIM-120.
We don't know the details of the engagement as none have been made public.
And the T-38.
Taygibay
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^^^ Well, there's a very specific reason for that, namely the format of Langley-Eutis AFB.
But very nice of you to remember that gilf of a fighter. Its designer was the same guy that gave us
this marvel
and that one
Edgar Schmued ( though others like Gasich were essential too ).
Just on account of its thrust ratio, the N-156 has endured 7 decades and will be over at least 75 years
old as a design when retired, more like 80-something ( maybe more ), the same as a human lifetime ! ! !
In essence, the Talon is the F-16's precursor.
But I diverge, sorry!
And good night, Tay.
"The T-38s are typically flown by Raptor pilots who are the most qualified to challenge the Raptor,
and exploit any and all perceived air-to-air vulnerabilities."
From this excellent source : https://theaviationist.com/2014/11/26/f-22-vs-t-38-talon-at-langley/and exploit any and all perceived air-to-air vulnerabilities."
But very nice of you to remember that gilf of a fighter. Its designer was the same guy that gave us
this marvel
and that one
Edgar Schmued ( though others like Gasich were essential too ).
Just on account of its thrust ratio, the N-156 has endured 7 decades and will be over at least 75 years
old as a design when retired, more like 80-something ( maybe more ), the same as a human lifetime ! ! !
In essence, the Talon is the F-16's precursor.
But I diverge, sorry!
And good night, Tay.
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PARIKRAMA
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Saab Gripen MII proposal details
Latest offer details
Latest offer details
- Saab has offerred to bring entire aerospace ecosystem to India for a period of 100 years
- Its offering to set up Industrial Network with Indian pvt sector
- It also wants to setup Aeronautic training academy
- Saab has described the following steps
- When the contract is signed , same day a dedicated Gripen line for India will be setup in Sweden
- Indian Industry participation and Skill training will happen in Sweden in this line.
- Once the infrastructure in India is up and running then the whole line and skilled manpower will be shifted
- Estimated timeline for the whole process - Minimum 4.5 Years - Maximum 7 years
- Saab will then start with Kit based assembly in Indian line
- By providing knowledge and building capability from the bottom of the supply chain, the kits would be slowly replaced by local production from raw materials.
- Saab wants the offer to be G2G
- Saab is selling its USP as
- Traditional MLU is 15-20 years
- Gripen has split avionics architecture that separates flight control system and tactical systems
- this implies improvements can be undertaken in tactical avionics without interfering with flight characteristics
- Thus Gripen can be upgraded every 2-3 years
- DM MP commented after seeing all this
- India wont wait for 5-7 years for Indian production line
- Any fighter made in Indian production line must start rolling by 4th year
- in case of exceptional delay and issues agreed by MOD then max by 5th year
- Any more delay and it will be financial penalty
- Other than Skill there is no technology upgradation in industrial R&D or transfer of cutting edge tech to India
- The ecosystem and skilled manpower is already getting created by LCA and ADA has already cleared the plan to convert Indian ecosystem by making HAL and other agencies to be lead integrator.
- Pvt sector will be sub assemblers and assemblers.
- The short duration upgrade every 2-3 years cost was asked by DM MP and Saab could not offer any proper figure or any estimate.
- DM politely informed that present form of proposal needs much more as competing Single Jet engine offer is presently superior.
fsayed
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If this is the case junk saab jas39 gripen go for f16 or f18 as they r providing better return and technologies
SpArK
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More than 5 yrs since i started this thread,
https://defence.pk/threads/india-selects-ef-rafale-for-mmrca-shortlist.105832/
https://defence.pk/threads/india-selects-ef-rafale-for-mmrca-shortlist.105832/
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If it is the same product for Qatar and India, it can't be an Israeli's helmet.
I was convinced India will choose an Israeli's one for communality reasons....
anant_s
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It looks a good proposal, but it perhaps has come about 15 years too late.
I may be naive here to comment, but it looks SAAB is trying to use India as a manufacturing base for developing new generation low cost light fighters for export markets of Latin America and Africa.
We have read a lot about SAAB pitching its products but point is how does India see its air warfare threats of future. Does a fourth generation product with limited future development scope fit into military doctrine of India? I'm not sure of answers given projects like AMCA, LCA mark 2, FGFA, Rafale etc are on immediate horizon. Secondly i'm sure in all this chaos, someone in administration must be sensible enough to think of consolidation and reducing the number of platforms.
I recall @MilSpec post, where he explained that how planners in pakistan have been really wise to choose JF 17 as a single platform and then devise strategies around it. I'm not fully aware of JF17 capabilities, but surely it is a good move to use a single platform as your workhorse and then have a fleet of special utility platforms in limited numbers. It cuts down on cost and clutter in thinking.
Third, whoever wishes to sell India a technology or product must take into account how the platform can be of use to Navy (in shore based and Deck based roles).
Somehow when i ask myself these questions, only Rafale seems to be the logical choice. But future holds is an unknown, but surely someone must now start to clear all the confusion that is surrounding the establishment and define what 3 or 4 (at max) platforms are going to be part India's fighter fleet for next 25 years or so.
@Abingdonboy What do you say?
''DM politely informed that present form of proposal needs much more as competing Single Jet engine offer is presently superior.''
So is F-16 coming as Make in India.But MP has been quoted as opposed to it.So,is it Modi's special interest.
Indian Air Force also visited Israel.So is an Israeli version of F-16 coming
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