Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[sancho]

Ditching Rafale – could mean a high risk alternative for IAF modernization

That not correct, since only around 2 squads of Rafales would be inducted in India till 2020, which makes clear that Rafale has a minor effect to the numbers of squadrons in the short term, since at the same time around 4 MKI and at least 3 x LCA squads will be added too. So the IAF modernisation is based on the addition of 3 different types of fighters, not just one!
And since Russia intends to start producing the Pak Fa from next year onwards, they could deliver around 2 squads for India too, if required. That however doesn't give us the industrial advantages the whole MMRCA competition is based on.

 

[India defense]

PAK FA is far superior to Rafale....go for PAK FA.....

 

[PARIKRAMA]

U.S. Navy Super Hornet refuels French Rafale and Super Etendard jets over USS Carl Vinson

By David Cenciotti
F/A-18E Super Hornet serves as aerial refueler for French combat planes operating from Charles De Gaulle aircraft carrier.
The images in this post were taken on Mar. 9 over the Persian Gulf (or “Arabian Gulf” if you want to use the term used by the U.S. armed forces lately).

They show an F/A-18E Super Hornet from the Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 81 Sunliners refuel two French Super Étendard Marine and one Rafale Marine aircraft from French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle in the vicinity of U.S. aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70).



The French and American nuclear-powered aircraft carriers are currently deployed along with their battle groups to support strike operations in Iraq and Syria.

Last week a Rafale Marine “omnirole” aircraft belonging to the 11F operated aboard the USS Carl Vinson in the last of series of joint training events aimed at improving carrier integration.


The Aviationist » U.S. Navy Super Hornet refuels French Rafale and Super Etendard jets over USS Carl Vinson

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Courtesy Olybrius

 

[halloweene]

U.S. Navy Super Hornet refuels French Rafale and Super Etendard jets over USS Carl Vinson

By David Cenciotti
F/A-18E Super Hornet serves as aerial refueler for French combat planes operating from Charles De Gaulle aircraft carrier.
The images in this post were taken on Mar. 9 over the Persian Gulf (or “Arabian Gulf” if you want to use the term used by the U.S. armed forces lately).

They show an F/A-18E Super Hornet from the Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 81 Sunliners refuel two French Super Étendard Marine and one Rafale Marine aircraft from French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle in the vicinity of U.S. aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70).



The French and American nuclear-powered aircraft carriers are currently deployed along with their battle groups to support strike operations in Iraq and Syria.

Last week a Rafale Marine “omnirole” aircraft belonging to the 11F operated aboard the USS Carl Vinson in the last of series of joint training events aimed at improving carrier integration.


The Aviationist » U.S. Navy Super Hornet refuels French Rafale and Super Etendard jets over USS Carl Vinson

In fact atm Carl Vinson is in a harbour and US ships are operating with CDG. But nevermind

 

[sancho]

India's Rafale fighter jet deal stuck in doldrums


The multi-billion dollar Rafale fighter jet contract between India and France continues to face an impasse despite the two countries having agreed to "fast-track" the negotiations.

But while forward movement is awaited in this regard, defence sources made it clear that the upcoming visit of Prime Minister Narendra Modi to France and the fighter jet deal were two separate issues which cannot be linked, PTI reported.

"There are some issues which still persist because of which the final contract is pending for such a long time," defence sources said when asked if the issues relating to pricing and the guarantee clause had been sorted out.

Talking about chances that the deal would be worked out ahead of Modi's visit to France next month, the sources maintained the two were not linked.

"The Rafale deal is not linked to the official visit of the Prime Minister. These are two separate things. An official visit is not only about signing defence deals," the sources said.

They made it clear that the makers of Rafale -- Dassault Aviation -- will have to stand by the clauses of the Request for Proposal (RFP) to which they had agreed...

India's Rafale fighter jet deal stuck in doldrums : North, News - India Today


If true and the deal will not be signed during the visit, because Dassault still not able take responsibility, it would be another downer.

 

[SpArK]

India's Rafale fighter jet deal stuck in doldrums : North, News - India Today


If true and the deal will not be signed during the visit, because Dassault still not able take responsibility, it would be another downer.

Dont you think its time we let go .....with all these dramas and look for other alternatives...

 

[Bang Galore]

India's Rafale fighter jet deal stuck in doldrums : North, News - India Today


If true and the deal will not be signed during the visit, because Dassault still not able take responsibility, it would be another downer.

This deal is turning out to be a royal pain in the butt. Wish everyone would make up their mind, one way or the other.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Honestly, if Dassault and French government cant work out a deal signing when India PM modi is there, then its a golden chance missed. Then i think we all should fancy less abt this deal gng through. With so many programs here and there planned, the more the delay the more it loses its relevance and thus reduces its chance for the massive contract..

May be Dassault is just happy to supply advanced avionics to JF17 program !!!

@halloweene : Whats the lates friend? You attended their annual meeting? if yes, no one is asking any tough question for MMRCA or all are overjoyed with just Egypt? Even without annual meeting, what are the feelers from Dassault camp?

 

[Abingdonboy]

If true and the deal will not be signed during the visit, because Dassault still not able take responsibility, it would be another downer.

Were you really expecting it to be signed during the visit sir? This is contrary to established norms, India avoids making any such deals during offical visits and this has been reiterated time and again for multiple deals and yet the media still like to creat anticipation and are then surprised when nothing of the sort takes place.

 

[sancho]

Dont you think its time we let go .....with all these dramas and look for other alternatives...

Let go in the sense of not making us more dependent on Dassault to finish this deal, yes!
It's a shame what Dassault did with this deal since late 2012 and we played along patiently, but without moving away from the requirements we set up from the start. We explained every little piece for Dassault again and again, to fix every little bit of the contract and still are at pretty much the same point as we were back then. MoD has to take the initiative now and have to make an informal request to the EF consortium about their point on the guarantee clause and how they had planned to deal with it, if they had been selected. Then MoD gets both, the security on how the EF consortium would deal with this crucial part "if the MoD would reject Rafale for none compliance to the requirements" and if they would comply, it puts more pressure on Dassault too.
But either way, we can't just wait till these foreign vendors gets their act together and have to take the necessary steps on our own. And if a sad decision to reject Rafale needs to be taken, it's unfortunate but not avoidable anymore!

It's not only the need of IAF for fighters that we have to keep in mind here, but also India's reputation, which already is not that high as a country that scraps and re-issues tenders on and on. But in this case it's Dassault that is stalling the deal for nearly 3 years now and if it fails, everybody will blame India and that is something we can't afford!

It's either Dassault takes it or not now, otherwise we move on with an alternative!

 

[SpArK]

Let go in the sense of not making us more dependent on Dassault to finish this deal, yes!
It's a shame what Dassault did with this deal since late 2012 and we played along patiently, but without moving away from the requirements we set up from the start. We explained every little piece for Dassault again and again, to fix every little bit of the contract and still are at pretty much the same point as we were back then. MoD has to take the initiative now and have to make an informal request to the EF consortium about their point on the guarantee clause and how they had planned to deal with it, if they had been selected. Then MoD gets both, the security on how the EF consortium would deal with this crucial part "if the MoD would reject Rafale for none compliance to the requirements" and if they would comply, it puts more pressure on Dassault too.
But either way, we can't just wait till these foreign vendors gets their act together and have to take the necessary steps on our own. And if a sad decision to reject Rafale needs to be taken, it's unfortunate but not avoidable anymore!

It's not only the need of IAF for fighters that we have to keep in mind here, but also India's reputation, which already is not that high as a country that scraps and re-issues tenders on and on. But in this case it's Dassault that is stalling the deal for nearly 3 years now and if it fails, everybody will blame India and that is something we can't afford!

It's either Dassault takes it or not now, otherwise we move on with an alternative!

I dont understand how can we be so patient all these years.

 

[sancho]

Were you really expecting it to be signed during the visit sir?

It's not about the signature itself, but about fixing the deal and the aim was to fix it before the visit, which would result at least in a joint announcement at the visit and a nice photo-op for the officials. But this mess is going on for so many years and it's still about Dassault trying to avoid or divert responsibility!

Recap:

Dec 9, 2012 - Define HAL's role in MMRCA project: Dassault to Defence Ministry

After bagging the multi-billion dollar deal for supplying 126 Rafale fighter aircraft to the IAF, French firm Dassault Aviation has asked the Defence Ministry to define the role of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited in the project...

...The French company has told the Ministry that if it is given the overall responsibility for the project, it should be given the freedom to decide on the proportion of work to be done by the HAL and private companies in the programme, they said.

Define HAL's role in MMRCA project: Dassault to Defence Ministry - Economic Times

That's the moment the deal went the wrong way and till now, we still negotiating about things that were known for years!

I dont understand how can we be so patient all these years.

Because the Rafale as a fighter and as an offer in the tender, was the best choice for India (capability of the fighter, industrial offer and costs of around $16 billion)
Because we had a long and trustworthy relationship to France (which we still have) and Dassault (which is questionable now)
But also because of the elections and the government change in between, since you can't do much shortly before or after the elections

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Caroline Bruneau @BruneauCaroline · 5h5 hours ago
#Rafale #mmrca #Dassault "has not change his offer, does not communicate on the amount" - Trappier

Caroline Bruneau @BruneauCaroline · 6h6 hours ago
#Dassault 2014 dividend 10€/share . 23% payout

Caroline Bruneau @BruneauCaroline · 6h6 hours ago
#Dassault operationnal income 353 m€ / operationnal margin 9.7%

Caroline Bruneau @BruneauCaroline · 6h6 hours ago
#Dassault net adjusted income 2014 : 398m€

Caroline Bruneau @BruneauCaroline · 6h6 hours ago
#Dassault aviation sales 2014 : 3,68 B €

Caroline Bruneau @BruneauCaroline · 6h6 hours ago
11 #Rafale delivered to #France. 137 entered service so far. 43 still to deliver.

Caroline Bruneau @BruneauCaroline · 6h6 hours ago
Talks continue closely with India and production is organized in details #Dassault #Rafale #mmrca

Same old Same old...

 

[nik22]

Let go in the sense of not making us more dependent on Dassault to finish this deal, yes!
It's a shame what Dassault did with this deal since late 2012 and we played along patiently, but without moving away from the requirements we set up from the start. We explained every little piece for Dassault again and again, to fix every little bit of the contract and still are at pretty much the same point as we were back then. MoD has to take the initiative now and have to make an informal request to the EF consortium about their point on the guarantee clause and how they had planned to deal with it, if they had been selected. Then MoD gets both, the security on how the EF consortium would deal with this crucial part "if the MoD would reject Rafale for none compliance to the requirements" and if they would comply, it puts more pressure on Dassault too.
But either way, we can't just wait till these foreign vendors gets their act together and have to take the necessary steps on our own. And if a sad decision to reject Rafale needs to be taken, it's unfortunate but not avoidable anymore!

It's not only the need of IAF for fighters that we have to keep in mind here, but also India's reputation, which already is not that high as a country that scraps and re-issues tenders on and on. But in this case it's Dassault that is stalling the deal for nearly 3 years now and if it fails, everybody will blame India and that is something we can't afford!

It's either Dassault takes it or not now, otherwise we move on with an alternative!

Dassault might be hoping India would eventually go on their terms like Mirage upgrade deal. They could be really wrong this time . I guess Govt has made its mind. Increased rigor on FGFA looks to be part of plan. I think India can not afford FGFA and Rafale for its air force. That would really suck out money from other services.