Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[SQ8]

As the strike package got closer to their initial push points, the Radar operators onboard the Phalcon felt both relieved and worried that so far they had not seen any peep out of the Myanmar Air force.Which was worrisome as the hilly ranges towards Loilam to Mong Kung restricted coverage below 500 feet There were suspected contacts some minutes ago but these were determined to be Burmese Mi-8s flying towards Rangoon. Perhaps if they were picked up again the returning strike package might be vectored in for a kill. Nevertheless, the package had been briefed of this activity or rather lack of activity.

The Apache's had struck the Radar sites and were now tasked to hold back behind the ranges that concealed Namsang airbase as the Su-30MKI flight and the Tejas fighter sweep rolled in.

As the Lead MKI flight sorted its radar emissions for the KH-31, the Weapons system officer thought he saw something that made the hair on his neck stand up:
Behind the Hills were two flights of JF-17s flying a tight racetrack Ambush! As he called a break, the JF-17s popped up and all hell broke loose.

There was little time to react, and despite a barrage of countermeasures Zebra flight found itself struggling to survive.

The second JF-17 flight rounded the hills and broke into the Rafale flights, as they were already alerted their MICA-EMs had left their rails.. causing the JF-17s to panic and target the closest Rafale before being blown up.. but not before they launched three SD-10s all at one target.

The SD-10s found their mark, and in an instant two IAF pilots found themselves leaving their aircraft with the prospect of floating down into hostile territory on their minds.

 

[SQ8]

As the wreckage of the Two IAF aircraft headed towards the ground, the Radar controllers onboard the Phalcon and those back in Kolkata HQ realized that they might have led their attackers into facing the last ditch effort of the Myanmar air force. Where there had been none, there were now six enemy aircraft with two more seen rocketing up from the airfield picked up by their radar, and the target area soon turned into a giant furball with Tejas, JF-17s, MKIs and F-7s.
To top it off, the AAA was much more intense than expected.

The Tejas flight turned into the attackers and the lead flight made quick work of two JF-17s that were chasing Zebra flight.

What made matters worse was reports of more F-7s scrambling out of the base, but by this time the Rafale's SBU-64
impact, splitting the runway and taxiway in half leaving the Burmese pilots watching helplessly and aborting takeoff. It was effectively the end of air operations from the base for the remainder of the campaign.

There was however, the matter of the aircraft still in the air. And the Tejas were also targeted by incoming Surface to Air threats whilst in the middle of a turning dogfight with JF-17s.

The dogfight continued on, with JF-17s going for desperate gun kills before meeting their maker at the hands of Zebra flight, which had extended to rejoin the fight.

 

[SQ8]

As the Rafales turned back, they found themselves being chased by a lone JF-17 who managed to launch two SD-10s before being blown to bits by a MICA IR. However, the SD-10s knew what they were looking for and the wingmen of the third flight soon found themselves in a not too comfortable position.

The rest of the flight made its exit good. And Zebra flight with its greater fuel load and loitering time set up a patrol pattern to provide cover and comm support till CSAR from the Vikramaditya could arrive.

At the end, despite losing three aircraft the IAF had managed to shoot down no less than eight Myanmar Airforce aircraft including 6 JF-17s and 2 F-7s. In addition, Namsang Airfield was put out of commission and its F-7 and JF-17 squadrons were grounded.. along with a number being blown up within a hanger that was stuck. The effect was sudden on the Myanmar Government and their military withdrew from the immediate front leaving its advance stalled fearing that its air cover was now all but lost.


That pretty much ends that little distraction piece.

None of the above was scripted beyond mission planning. The engagements and their outcomes were all based on parameters.. such as these for the R-74 Archer

Explosives=7.400000
FusingDistance=1.000000
ClusterBomblets=0
ClusterDispersion=0.000000
GuidanceType=10
Accuracy=90
MaxTurnRate=48.000000
MaxLaunchG=9.000000
LockonChance=95
LaunchReliability=89
ArmingTime=0.500000
SeekerFOV=2.500000
SeekerGimbleLimit=60.000000
SeekerTrackRate=60.000000
SeekerRange=20000.000000
CLmax=14.000000
MinLaunchRange=300.000000
MaxLaunchRange=20000.000000
Duration=72.000000
CounterCountermeasure=95.000000
NoiseRejection=80.000000

or the
MICA-EM-NG used for the Rafale F4 standard

ReleaseDelay=1.000000
WarheadType=0
Explosives=12.000000
FusingDistance=2.000000
ClusterBomblets=0
ClusterDispersion=0.000000
GuidanceType=13
Accuracy=98
MaxTurnRate=50.000000
MaxLaunchG=9.000000
LockonChance=100
LaunchReliability=100
ArmingTime=1.000000
SeekerFOV=55.000000
SeekerGimbleLimit=65.000000
SeekerTrackRate=150.000000
SeekerRange=100000.000000
CLmax=14.000000
MinLaunchRange=500.000000
MaxLaunchRange=100000.000000
Duration=180.000000
CounterCountermeasure=110.000000 that is a 110% percent!
NoiseRejection=110.000000


Aircraft radar for e.g. is modelled thus
for the Tejas as an example.

Name=ELTA EL/M-2032
RadarType=AIR_INTERCEPT
RangeUnit=NM
RadarAzimuthLimit=70
RadarElevationLimit=80
RadarSearchTime=1.0
RadarSearchRange=180
RadarSearchStrength=100
RadarTrackTime=4.0
RadarTrackRange=150
RadarTrackStrength=100
VisualBlindArc=5L,6,6L,7L
VisualRestrictedArc=4L,8L
MaxVisibleDistance=6600.0
DopplerLookdown=TRUE
HasRWR=TRUE
BaseRCSModifier=0.75 (reduced RCS of Tejas from assumed base value on its 3d model)

The same for the MKI

RadarName=Pero N011-1-01M
RadarType=AIR_INTERCEPT
RangeUnit=KM
DopplerLookdown=True
RadarAzimuthLimit=70
RadarElevationLimit=40
RadarSearchTime=1.0
RadarSearchRange=200
RadarSearchStrength=220
RadarTrackTime=1.0
RadarTrackRange=150
RadarTrackStrength=220
RadarSearchFreq=9.8
RadarTrackFreq=9.8
RadarMissileGuidanceFreq=6.0
RadarSearchCW=FALSE
RadarTrackCW=FALSE
RadarMissileGuidanceCW=TRUE
VisualBlindArc=5,6,7
VisualRestrictedArc=4L,8L
MaxVisibleDistance=15000.0
HasRWR=TRUE

And so on.
So whatever happens, is based on how the computer flies the aircraft with these parameters and probabilities to get the result you see above.

Ill I do is essentially take screenshots when I catch events happening...which is really fun watching it all unfold.
@MilSpec @sancho @Capt.Popeye

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Oscar

Since this was Myanmar in this scenario ; do you think that IAF faced an unknown enemy
whose capabilities were unknown

Because as far as PAF and IAF is concerned ; before any mission
both sides will know what are they likely to run into ; both in the air and from the ground

 

[rockstarIN]

There was however, the matter of the aircraft still in the air. And the Tejas were also targeted by incoming Surface to Air threats whilst in the middle of a turning dogfight with JF-17s

How come SAMs are fired when there is a dog fight is on?

 

[SQ8]

How come SAMs are fired when there is a dog fight is on?

IFF is still active for SAMs and they can take on identified targets. Such engagements happened back in the 82 bekaa valley but the Israelis had purposely mixed up SEAD assets taking on Syrian SAM sites.

 

[The Great One]

IFF is still active for SAMs and they can take on identified targets. Such engagements happened back in the 82 bekaa valley but the Israelis had purposely mixed up SEAD assets taking on Syrian SAM sites.

Why are only JF-17's allowed Terrain Masking in this 'scenario'.

 

[SQ8]

Why are only JF-17's allowed Terrain Masking in this 'scenario'.

That is a likely BARCAP tactic that was also practised by North Vietnamese migs in the same region.
The IAF aircraft also used terrain masking.. the Rafale's all flew in NoE before popping up at the IP for the attack. How do you think they were able to evade the various Manpads, a Sa-6 site and AAA that lined their route?
The MKI SEAD mission entails that it stand out as a radar target so that it gets radars to turn on and target them(the MKIs) which in turns gives them the target cues to attack the enemy Radars.
The Tejas flight also flew pretty low level all the way, only popping up at the IP to provide low level A2A cover(just as the Mig-21s did in Cope India).

 

[IND151]

LIVEFIST: Rafale Vs. Su-30MKI - The New Indian Dogfight

 

[sancho]

LIVEFIST: Rafale Vs. Su-30MKI - The New Indian Dogfight

The titel sounds more sensational, than the article actually is. Other than the sad situation between the DM and IAF being on different lines, there is not much news in this.

 

[drunken-monke]

MMRA Stalemate: Who wins, who loses?

By Ritu Mousumi Tripathy
Early 2012. France was getting closer to clinch a mega military deal to sell its Rafale multi-role fighter jets to the Indian Air Force - a deal worth over US$11 billion at that point of time. If signed, it would have become the foremost and biggest export deal for the French-made four+ generation fighter.

Come 2015, and things have moved nowhere.

With time and a regime change in New Delhi, the multi-billion dollar defense deal has been stuck in a quagmire. The swiftly-shifting tectonic plates at the global strategic level also appear to have some bearing on the same.

India, which has been importing most of its high-technology military hardware from overseas since its independence, has become hell-bent to gain the maximum, both in terms of technology and price, out of such a high-profile mega-budget deal wherein a major chunk of its annual defense budget would be spent on acquiring 126 of the new fighters.

Moreover, with a major thrust on the Make-In-India program, to gain rich technological dividends from the MMRCA deal in the longer run has become the primary driving factor for the current Government.

Once optimistic and euphoric that it would certainly clinch the multi-billion dollar contract to supply such a large number of fighters to the Indian Air Force after emerging as the lowest bidder in the deal piping Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Aviation, has been involved in an excruciatingly long negotiation process with the Indian Defense establishment since 2012.

Interestingly, while the French fighter had no takers worldwide when India shortlisted it for the MMRCA deal, today it has found a customer at last, with Egypt inking a contract this year to buy 24 of the Rafale fighters. Dassault, otherwise, has already lost a contract in Brazil and one in Switzerland to sell its Rafales.

Coming back to the Indian turf, a lot of factors appear to have been working against the French fighter to make its headway into the IAF's fleet. While negotiations with the state-run HAL is going on, the major hurdle, as per reports, involves cost of production.

The RFP issued by the Indian Defence Ministry for the MMRCA contract has stipulated that the winner of the contract will supply 18 of the 126 fighters to the IAF in flyaway condition, while the remaining 108 fighters would be licence-built at HAL's facilities in India.

Dassault, for its part, has refused to stand guarantee for all the 108 Rafales to be built in India and their production cost. The major issue of contention between the two sides is the original tender issued by the Indian Government way back in 2007, and Dassault's reported veering off from the same now.

The French firm has been arguing that the integration cost of Rafale would go up if assembled at India's HAL which does not have economies of scale. Furthermore, the productivity of labour in the Indian state-run firm is not very high compared to its French counterparts, it has said.

Meanwhile, ongoing events at the global stage, especially the Russia-West tussle over the Ukraine crisis and France's refusal to hand over the Mistral-class helicopter carriers to Moscow, the contract for which was signed in 2011, appear to have some bearing on the outcome of India's mega budget fighter deal.

Moscow, one of New Delhi's most trusted strategic allies supplying critical military technology and hardware since decades, has been persuading India not to go for the French fighters on the ground that it may face the same fate as the Mistral-class of warships France was contracted to deliver to Russia. On the other hand, it has been hard-selling few of its own fighters, including the Su-30MKI (already operational with the IAF) and the under-development Su-35 fighter as a replacement for the French Rafale.

Eurofighter Typhoon, which was drubbed by the French fighter, too has made several attempts to woo India to reconsider the deal in its favour.

Many military analysts have also suggested production and induction of more of India's own light combat aircraft Tejas into the IAF rather than buying the French fighters at a whopping cost, expected to exceed US$20 billion, if signed today. Few have also pitched in favour of Russia's fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) in which India is a partner. The Government, however, has delinked MMRCA from the FGFA deal.

While the IAF has since long felt the urgent need for a four+ generation warplane in its arsenal in the face of its depleting force level of 32 fighter squadrons as opposed to the required 42 fighter squadrons, it is at the political level that the issue has been hauled up, and a final decision at the highest level is still awaited.

The Indian Government, for its part, is walking a tight rope, signalling that it's not being swayed away by any of the parties pressurizing it to take a call in their favor. After all, the ultimate result must address the immediate security issues of the IAF and the Nation at large.

Amid st so much twists and turns coming in the way of the MMRCA deal - once pegged as the "mother-of-all" deals - who then becomes the ultimate winner and who the loser?

Only time will reveal.

MMRCA stalemate: Who wins, who loses? | Brahmand News

 

[IrbiS]

https://twitter.com/x/status/580637640329977856

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Caroline Bruneau @BruneauCaroline · 3h3 hours ago
#Dassault #Rafale "the contract is 95% finalised, we have now to compete it with the MoD in India" Trappier
Caroline Bruneau @BruneauCaroline · 3h3 hours ago
#Dassault #Rafale "I do hope we could go fats but we rather take time now than to have problem later" Trappier

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Caroline Bruneau @BruneauCaroline · 3h3 hours ago
#Dassault #Rafale "the contract is 95% finalised, we have now to compete it with the MoD in India" Trappier
Caroline Bruneau @BruneauCaroline · 3h3 hours ago
#Dassault #Rafale "I do hope we could go fats but we rather take time now than to have problem later" Trappier

Many Thanks for this GOOD news

The remainder can by trashed out during Modi's visit

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Dassault Aviation @Dassault_OnAir · 5h5 hours ago
Rafale is the next logical step. HAL & Indian industries will contribute to the Make in India policy by developing and manufacturing locally
Stéphane Fort retweeted
Dassault Aviation @Dassault_OnAir · 5h5 hours ago
"That logically such foundation with Indian Air Force and HAL will pave the way for a much larger challenge : Indian Rafale program" CEO
Stéphane Fort retweeted
Dassault Aviation @Dassault_OnAir · 5h5 hours ago
"India is Dassault's first export client and the relationship we nurtured with IAF has spanned 60 years growing strenght to strenght" CEO