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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

My poor Bon Plan, the C01 din't have those
antennas. The shape you see was a mock-up!

Check images from the prototypes, you'll see!
It is admittedly harder to spot black on black.


Have a great day, Tay.
Maybe there is nothing behind the shape,
but the shape are there so as to make aerodynamical tests in the perfect conditions of the full plane.
It say nothing more.

See you soon !
 
So when they say Spectra, is the emitter library not central to how it works? Or will the threat library have to be built from scratch by the IAF?

Probably not from scratch but yes, the library will have to be built anew by IAF.

The reasons for this are numerous and you won't like
all of them as a client but the way things are done is
there to fit them best.

First, the library may contain friendly profiles. You know that there is an exercise
called Atlantic Trident bring concluded at JBLE with our closest friends during which
it is certain that we got all the EM library info on Raptors, Typhoons and Lighting IIs.
We just can't share those so let's make it a rule ... which would protect you about
dissemination of similar data say extracted by the OEM during a refit. Not for sale.

Second, the library may contain profiles you have no need for. Remember that plane
downed by a Rafale in Lybia? Do you even want its profile? How many Soko Galeb
G-2s are poised within strike range of India's borders? So rule2 : no sharing of ...
let's call it extraneous data which may anyway incidentally fall within the other rules.

Third, the library may contain potential enemy profiles including those of a third party
to the deal that is not in conflict with the seller or buyer or both at time of sale. The
simple example here is Pakistan : France has a normal relationship with Islamabad
even though you guys don't quite. Why would we sell their profiles and sour things up
when you guys will have every opportunity to get those "for free" with practice runs?*
Rule 3 : share only common enemies' sigs.
* Which ties in with the most important strategic reason : quality of the libraries.

Fourth, the libraries may not include what you need most anyhow. Do we have a good read
on the J-10? I'm not sure! Will you guys be able to get one with your Raffys? Pretty certain!

Finally, all data libraries are not of equal value. The work that goes behind acquiring them
can vary in professionalism or expertise and so on. Let's examine the extreme cases of it.
Scenario 1: France is the best at cataloging EM signatures, better at all levels : acquisition,
signal treatment, analysis, you name it, the resulting data is twice as good as next player's.
Do we want to share that? And supposing we do, will we find a buyer? If India thinks it can
build a better library by itself or one just as good why would it pay the premium price that
we're certain to ask for it as world's best product? It's a face value deal too as in order to
convince the buyer of the work's worth, you'd have to disclose it along with its processes.
Scenario 2: France is so so at using its own SPECTRA tool and India will get much more
out of building the libraries itself than paying for shitty signatures with A-380s locked on
more often than J-20s. And this is where rules fly off as logic lands.

The work of building signature libraries is part of knowing how to use them. With the
excessive number of types in the iAF, the whole chain from pilots to data analysts can
be trained and honed with face-offs. The data itself is tactic until treatment makes it
strategic. Both are enabled by doing the work yourself.

But in passing, let me add this strange fact that if the strategic partnership between us
is serious, we may forget signatures of your own aircrafts as the MKI possibly diluted . . .
as you'd then have a benchmark of what can be had to refine your acquisition process.

There you go mate, have a great day, Tay.
 
e7fc3-rafale_orig.gif
 
ADDING 36 MORE RAFALES WILL PROVE TO BE MUCH CHEAPER THAN FGFA

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/08/adding-36-more-rafales-will-prove-to-be.html

The Rafales would be in place of FGFA.
Nothing decided Yet though.

The cost of 36 more Rafales would be at 60% of the first batch since they will become
the second squadron at two airbases.

$7,87B * 0,6 / 36 = $131M per aircraft.
The 7,87 $billions includes 10 years support and weapons.
So the 131$million is not the dry price of the plane, but with spares and some weapon.

The 40% "discount" is the bases accomodation and indigenization, paid once with the first order.
 
IAF pitches for 36 more Rafale fighters after it gets the first 36 from France

The IAF is now strongly pitching for acquiring another 36 Rafale fighters after it gets the first 36 jets under the mega Rs 59,000 crore contract (7.87 billion euro) inked with France last September, stressing that the "follow-on" deal will cost just over 60% of the original acquisition and induction price.

Defence ministry sources say the IAF has made "some presentations" on the operational need to procure 36 additional Rafales as part of its long-term plans, with the force contending the French fighters will prove to be much cheaper than the proposed fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) to be developed with Russia.

"But no final decision as yet has been taken on either the 36 more Rafales or the FGFA project," said a MoD source. Citing IAF's "critical operational necessity", the Modi government had last year inked the deal for the 36 Rafales, with their weapon packages, associated supplies and logistics, after scrapping the long-pending and deadlocked $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project for 126 fighters.

As earlier reported by TOI, the first Rafale squadron (18 jets) will be based at Hasimara (West Bengal) to cater for the eastern front with China, while the second will come up at Ambala (Haryana) for the western one with Pakistan. The 36 omni-role jets, which can also deliver nuclear weapons, are slated for delivery from November 2019 to mid-2022.

IAF has told MoD that the infrastructure coming up at Hasimara and Ambala airbases can accommodate two Rafale squadrons each. "This will cut down the induction costs of the 36 additional fighters," said the source.

Master.jpg



Grappling with just 33-34 fighter squadrons when at least 42-44 are needed to tackle the "collusive threat" from China and Pakistan, IAF says the Rafales will be "a huge deterrent" with their deadly Meteor air-to-air missiles (150-km range), Scalp air-to-ground cruise missiles (300-km) and other weapons.

Underlining "the primacy of airpower" in modern-day warfare, IAF has told MoD the Meteor beyond visual range missile is far superior to any air-to-air missile with Chinese or Pakistani fighters.

The original Rafale deal, incidentally, had come in for sharp criticism from certain quarters due to the huge costs involved. A single fighter in itself costs around Rs 700 crore. But the per fighter cost zooms up to Rs 1,640 crore if the overall deal is taken into account, which includes a potent weapons package, all spares and costs for 75% fleet availability and "performance-based logistics support" for five years.
While IAF is also backing the long-delayed indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft, the single-engine fighter with a limited 400-km range and 2.5-tonne weapon load can be used primarily for "air defence" to take on incoming enemy jets.

The twin-engine Rafale, in turn, has a much longer combat range from 780-km to 1,650-km depending on the mission, and can carry a 9.3-tonne weapon load. With 14 India-specific requirements, including the capability for "cold start" from high-altitude regions, the Rafale can simultaneously perform both air defence and ground attack missions.
The Rafale also has a faster turnaround time, capable of undertaking five sorties in a day. The existing fighters in the IAF combat fleet, in contrast, can do only three sorties at the most.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...first-36-from-france/articleshow/60226329.cms
 
Two remarks :

That ocean loops video with the jet plume
carving the water ( at 57 s. ) by A.P. Richelieu;
it's something navy pilots love doing, a craft,
a specialty. Of course it can be done with just
about any fighter jet but in reality, check out
the French flotilles or the Blue Angels on their
F-18s and you'll see that move quite often.
Kind of a rite / right thing : they can so they do!
_ By comparison, the PAF does it rarely _


As for that possible second contract of Rafales
by India, the interesting thing if it materializes
will be to find out how the ToT is implemented.
We know part of the high price for India stems
from the 50% offsets clause and that makers
compute this in their offers but that the higher
price tag is thus an investment in India itself
as it comes back in.

If the accompanying offsets are less for long

ToT and switch to more factories, we'll be able
to confirm that the GoI is setting up the people
slowly with gradual buys : -then the IN -then a
true MMI big buy which PariK and Abingdon so
often proposed in the past.

No rush, still good days to be had, Tay.
 
Selex boss told to Valerio Bonelli (their Dircom, former Eurofighter) : "you do not see the point, Valerio. Put a naked woman close to a Eurofighter, everyone will look at the lady. Put it near a Rafale, everyone will stare at the plane"
 
Selex boss told to Valerio Bonelli (their Dircom, former Eurofighter) : "you do not see the point, Valerio. Put a naked woman close to a Eurofighter, everyone will look at the lady. Put it near a Rafale, everyone will stare at the plane"
i will gladly take that naked women over rafale.:big_boss::cheers:

fighter are not for looking good but fighter jet only for one thing killing enemy.:sniper:
 
This is a wrong perception spread all around that 36 rafales costs 8.87 bn USD but the reality is far different.
check it out

BREAK-DOWN OF RAFALE DEAL
The per unit cost of the 36 Dassault Rafale deal that India signed with France on 23 September in New Delhi for EUR7.9 billion (USD8.9 billion) was around EUR141.66 million each, official sources said.

This included 28 single-seat and eight dual-seat Rafales for EUR3.3 billion - each priced at EUR91.1 million and EUR94 million, respectively - with an additional EUR1.8 billion for 14 Indian Air Force (IAF)- specific customisations.

The deal included the integration of a mix of locally developed and commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) weaponry and systems on the fighters, such as Israeli helmet-mounted display sights, assorted missiles, data-links, electronic warfare (EW), and identification friend-or-foe (IFF) systems.

FURTHER BREAK-DOWN
124-1.jpg


@A.P. Richelieu @hassamun

i will gladly take that naked women over rafale
you can only do such things with false flag. Hope you afraid or shy to show real flag on your profile.
 
This is a wrong perception spread all around that 36 rafales costs 8.87 bn USD but the reality is far different.
check it out
france paid good mony to indian politicians and ripped off india. now no need to cry about it. we know what happen. they sold indian mixed pickle airforce some 4 generation junk at cost of brand new f35. :haha::haha::haha::haha: and now this 50 cent french troll is trying to sell indian mixed pickle airforce even more junk at f35 price. @BON PLAN

pethetic country full of pethetic idiots.:omghaha::omghaha::omghaha::omghaha::omghaha::omghaha::omghaha::omghaha:
 

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