Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[randomradio]

Cool down, take a min to look at his CV (public). As an engineer, it should "talk" to you.

I sent it to her. But I think she already knows.

 

[Taygibay]

Don't make the mistake of making a half-*ssed platform like the J-XX or Growler.

No mistake, mate! It was a necessity to do away with subsonic ACs.
The concept of network centric battlefield is best served for air tactics
if all units have the ability to work together. Technological advances
allowed that by squeezing the material into a bona fide fighter.
When SHornets attack, Growlers are there wherever that may be and
Prowlers are 180 kliks behind the raid.
I'd agree that variety is the spice of life but for airforces, modern tools
follow a unitary approach. UCAVs are the new near supersonic layer.

The only big problem with the Growler is how much azz one must ki...
to get 'em. That in itself has probably hurt the end of the commercial
career of the Shornet. A Lite version for export would have done it.

But all the money was already being poured down the gullet of the F35
We do force feed geese for foie gras in France but in America, they do
that with their mil programs and the results aren't as tasty.

Good day to you, Tay.

 

[GuardianRED]

Alright ppl , I found it... Marketing movie time (very biased to the Americans) .. Have fun watching!

Note : Though Posted online 2015, this video is much older

 

[randomradio]

Alright ppl , I found it... Marketing movie time (very biased to the Americans) .. Have fun watching!

Note : Though Posted online 2015, this video is much older

I clicked on a random point on the video, to 55:20, and the narrator is talking about the F-35's 'extreme maneuverability'. Lol.

 

[GuardianRED]

I clicked on a random point on the video, to 55:20, and the narrator is talking about the F-35's 'extreme maneuverability'. Lol.

Bro! there is alot more fun stuff there too!

 

[randomradio]

Just curious since it's been pitched to India, realistic or not, how'd you rate the F-16's maneuverability?

It depends on what you are comparing it to. The F-16's maneuverability is kickass compared to what it is meant to replace in the IAF, the venerable Mig-21. However the F-16 did not even achieve minimum maneuverability specs during MMRCA evaluations.

Anyway the US DoD has pitched the F-35 to the IN as part of the carrier cooperation program, direct purchase of 3 squadrons. Lock Mart has been giving presentations for the last 10 years now.

 

[nang2]

These are not estimations, there is actual information available. Some information has been revealed at the lowest levels, but not ready for print yet.

Even if you compare using available information, the PAK FA is flying with a far more advanced engine than what's on the J-20. The Stage 1's engine is 80% different in build compared to the AL-31F. The J-20's engine is still the same as the one on the J-10. The PAK FA's 117 is said to be lighter than the AL-31F and about 25% more efficient. The J-20 with its main engine is still far away, and it will not be anywhere near the PAK FA's second stage engine which will become available in 2018-19. The second stage engines are said to be 15% more efficient than the 117. That's a lot of catching up to do for China.

With better engines that deliver more electrical power, you can get more out of your avionics.

The very fact that I said the J-20 may mature around the same time as the FGFA gives China the benefit of the doubt, that the Chinese will be able to match the Russians in every way by 2025.

You simply equate the engine with the plane. Such a naive simplicity is what amazes me.

 

[randomradio]

You simply equate the engine with the plane. Such a naive simplicity is what amazes me.

The engine is what makes the plane. If you manufacture the J-20 with the AL-31FN, it will just be a low observable Flanker. It won't be fully stealthy, it won't supercruise efficiently, its avionics will be restricted to what the Flanker carries, the directed energy weapons will have to be powered from external sources etc. You can find out many things about the jet simply based on the engine it's on.

J-20 Stage 1 - AL-31FN... generic export version.

Su-30MKI - AL-31FP... more advanced than the AL-31F/FN.
Su-35 - AL-41F1S, 117S, export grade... modified AL-31F.
PAK FA Stage 1 - AL-41F, 117, non-export grade, 5th gen engine... heavily modified from the AL-31F.
PAK FA Stage 2 - Type 30 - 5th gen engine + variable cycle, very high TWR(greater than 12), significantly increased electricity generation for directed energy weapons and other uses and so on. 2018-19.

J-20 definitive version(?) Stage 2 - WS-15(?). If it is as capable as the Type 30 and flies around the same time as the PAK FA Stage 2, then it will mature around the same time as the FGFA will. So figure out when the WS-15 become operationally available, then we can talk about the J-20. It has to lose the old Russian export grade engines first. You can't put the F-16's engine on the F-22 and call the F-22 5th gen.

The engine is the most effective way to surmise how capable the jet is. So it is nowhere as simplistic as you assume it to be.

And my earlier post was in favour of the Chinese, so I don't know what's your problem.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@randomradio

What about the GAP between Russian And Chinese AVIONICS

 

[randomradio]

No it doesn't since that's not what I was asking for. An platform's performance isn't dependent on its predecessor or successor's kinematics.

Extremely Maneuverable
Above Average Maneuverability
Maneuverable
Below Average Maneuverability
Extremely Below Average Maneuverability

Where on this scale does the F-16 fit?

Those are not data points, they are completely subjective.

If you compare it to the best available, say the F-22, the F-16 is not even remotely close to extremely maneuverable. Can the F-16 perform 100deg AoA or even 70? Can the F-16 match or cross 30 deg ITR? Can the F-16 pull 11G? The F-16 is not extremely maneuverable compared to current standards.

The Rafale, Typhoon, F-22 and Su-30/35 are extremely maneuverable, not the F-16.

 

[randomradio]

@randomradio

What about the GAP between Russian And Chinese AVIONICS

Avionics are much easier to develop. They will catch up or even surpass the Russians, but what they can put on the J-20 depends a lot on the engine.

Stop dancing and just answer like I wanted you to. F*ck almighty, what's wrong with you? It's not that hard, people here do this all the time.

How do you rate the F-16's performance based on a simple scale like that.

Okay. Maneuverable.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Avionics are much easier to develop. They will catch up or even surpass the Russians, but what they can put on the J-20 depends a lot on the engine.

Some days ago ; I read here on PDF that SD 10 is better than Russian Air to Air Missiles
Obviously these claims were made by a Pakistani member

What is your take on this

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

CCS meeting..... fingers crossed.

 

[Taygibay]

Steven Tilbrook (@TilbrookSteven) https://twitter.com/TilbrookSteven/

​

On-topic pic, Tay.

 

[randomradio]

Some days ago ; I read here on PDF that SD 10 is better than Russian Air to Air Missiles
Obviously these claims were made by a Pakistani member

What is your take on this

It's obviously false. The Chinese make export grade weapons with export grade performance. They are like the Soviets, they make one for themselves and make a monkey model for export. The Chinese main weapon is the PL-12.

And there are many air to air weapons available and being developed for the PAK FA. For example, the K-77M has a range of 220Km, carries GaN AESA seekers and has dual pulse motors. It's supposed to enter production this year. Even the PL-12 doesn't compare, it's more in the R-VV SD class. And the K-77M is a stop gap before the PAK FA's main medium range weapon is developed.