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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

That's not only countering the DM and additional MKIs, but basically inviting the EF as an option!

Are you sure you are not seeing what you want to see ? The DM did not pitch MKI as a replacement for Rafale, so there is nothing to counter.

LCA is the jet that will be the MMRCA.
 
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Are you sure you are not seeing what you want to see ? The DM did not pitch MKI as a replacement for Rafale, so there is nothing to counter.

LCA is the jet that will be the MMRCA.

Did you missed the DM's interview with Headlines Today? The DM clearly stated that the MKI could be an alternative, which the IAF Chief now counters and since LCA is a light class fighter, the IAF Chief don't consider it either, but only MMRCAs.
 
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I srsly hope the deal with Dassult materializes,we need those jets ASAP

That's what most of us or even the IAF Chief hopes, but we simply can't wait for Dassault anymore and need to think about alternatives and take a decision now.
 
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Did you missed the DM's interview with Headlines Today? The DM clearly stated that the MKI could be an alternative, which the IAF Chief now counters and since LCA is a light class fighter, the IAF Chief don't consider it either, but only MMRCAs.

I heard the DM Clearly say that MKI is not a replacement but he was addressing the question raised about short falls in IAF. He said for MMRCA, he needs to wait for the PNC.
 
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That is the older interview. But yes, he is talking about how life can go on without Rafale. Su 30 being PART of the solution. NOT the ONLY solution.

In fact he goes on to indicate that the cost of Rafale was exorbitant.

"It is not always… go and purchase it. A cost effective purchase is also important." .......... Declining to reveal the actual cost of buying the Rafale, Parrikar said, "Whether it is Rs 40,000 crore, or Rs 50,000 crore or Rs 1 lakh-crore, we are speaking about 50 per cent of the capital budget of the defence services."


Then in the same interview, he also indicates that Dassault is not satisfying the RFP.


ALL in ALL it looked like he was preparing grounds for dumping the AC. His later interviews has only strengthened that belief.
 
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That is the older interview. But yes, he is talking about how life can go on without Rafale.

And that's what the Air Chief was refering to, just that he makes clear that IAF still wants MMRCAs if Rafale fails and not MKIs.

Are you guys going for the mig 35 instead?

You can't go for something that is not available and IAF had rejected it anyway.

Interesting interview with an RAF EF pilot at Aero India:

 
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Interesting interview with an RAF EF pilot at Aero India:

Wow, I know he is there working for BAE but he really did talk a lot of nonsense didn't he? Reliable? Tell that to the Luftwaffe. Best in class capabilities? So why is the RAF using aged Tornados in Iraq and before that Libya and the RAF only using the EFT as an air defence fighter at home whilst the Rafale has taken part of combat missions in Afghanistan, Mali, Libya and Iraq.
 
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Wow, I know he is there working for BAE but he really did talk a lot of nonsense didn't he? Reliable? Tell that to the Luftwaffe. Best in class capabilities? So why is the RAF using aged Tornados in Iraq and before that Libya and the RAF only using the EFT as an air defence fighter at home whilst the Rafale has taken part of combat missions in Afghanistan, Mali, Libya and Iraq.

:D Please buddy, not the old stuff again. Luftwaffe, just as RAF or even IAF in some cases had ordered too little ammount of spares. That caused cannibalisation of other fighters and therefor to lower number of operational fighters. IAF did the same with MKI or the Hawk trainer, which caused problems too, so that's an issue of the customer not the fighter. In Libya the Rafale had more issues than the EF's and as everybody knows, the Tornado is used because it can carry the Brimstone now, which the EF will get only till 2018. If the French Airforce would have the Tornado with Brimstone, they wouldn't use the Rafale either, since the Brimstone offer clear advantages over AASM, especially against low collateral damage targets. As I said before, in 2018 the EF will surpass the Rafale in CAS, by 2019 with SPEAR 3 also in SEAD and if they can integrate the Storm Shadow in asymetric configs (hinted by the last test pics), they might even be able to carry a single missile with 2 fuel tanks.
 
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In Libya the Rafale had more issues than the EF's and as everybody knows

Ahem with an over 95% availability and flying, performing real missions while EF was dancing circles in the air?

So :
Radar : studies for finalizing just funded. A looong way to be operationnal.
Brimstone : overcostly (near the cost of a 250 Kg ASM) and not integrated.
ASRAAM : good advice : prefer IRIS-T
Meteor : not integrated
Spear 3 : doesn't exist yet.
Storm Shadow : stupid misssile can't be integrated where scheduled, need to be on a wet point. No Range (and not integrated). Asymetric configuration? Forget it! Spain could not integrate 1000 Kgs dumb bombs in an asymetric way...
No anti ship capability

Basically a lot of "will be" suddelnly becomes by miracle a "has"

Program do move and specially on spectacular items. But they are spectacular because they were missing! Look i din't say the plane in itself do not have qualities (high acceleration high speed high altitude interceptor). but for swing role, it is decades from Rafale.
 
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And that's what the Air Chief was refering to, just that he makes clear that IAF still wants MMRCAs if Rafale fails and not MKIs.

The requirement that prompted the MMRCA is still there so naturally the IAF would want it to be addressed.

However the only two realistic options with IAF will be Su 30 and LCA and they will have to pick between them. A hobsons choice, but its of their own making.

But its clear that the IAF is making an desperate appeal for Rafale without sounding like sales agent for Rafale.
 
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Ahem with an over 95% availability and flying, performing real missions while EF was dancing circles in the air?

Remember the issue with the emergency landing and if I remember there were also some engine changes. Nothing similar was reported from the EF if I remember correctly and nobody said that the Rafale wasn't vastly superior back then.

Look i din't say the plane in itself do not have qualities (high acceleration high speed high altitude interceptor). but for swing role, it is decades from Rafale.

It WAS far ahead, but as you admited, it is moving on, while Rafale is basically stuck at it's level and waiting for the MLU to actually give it some game changers again.
You simply can't deny that an EF with Brimstone 2 and Paveway IV is superior to Rafale with GBU 49 or AASM 250 in CAS and that the EF weapon pack is less costly!
Neither that SPEAR 3 is superior to AASM 125 in SEAD or precision strike (SPICE 250 is even better)!
Nor can you deny that a Captor E with 50% more TR modules and the swashplate is superior to the RBE 2 in the F3R!

And that shows the movement of the EF upgrades compared to the Rafale upgrades. That still doesn't make the EF as capable as Rafale in all areas, but it comes close enough in some areas and surpasses it in others.

But its clear that the IAF is making an desperate appeal for Rafale without sounding like sales agent for Rafale.

If hat would be the case, he only would had supported the DM instead of countering him, because that would increase pressure on Dassault, without bringing up the choice of another MMRCA and without stating that it doesn't needs to be Rafale, but an MMRCA.
He chose his words for a reason and he made it clear that Rafale remains the prefered choice, but that even IAF is starting to think about other ways.
 
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Ahem with an over 95% availability and flying, performing real missions while EF was dancing circles in the air?

So :
Radar : studies for finalizing just funded. A looong way to be operationnal.
Brimstone : overcostly (near the cost of a 250 Kg ASM) and not integrated.
ASRAAM : good advice : prefer IRIS-T
Meteor : not integrated
Spear 3 : doesn't exist yet.
Storm Shadow : stupid misssile can't be integrated where scheduled, need to be on a wet point. No Range (and not integrated). Asymetric configuration? Forget it! Spain could not integrate 1000 Kgs dumb bombs in an asymetric way...
No anti ship capability

Basically a lot of "will be" suddelnly becomes by miracle a "has"

Program do move and specially on spectacular items. But they are spectacular because they were missing! Look i din't say the plane in itself do not have qualities (high acceleration high speed high altitude interceptor). but for swing role, it is decades from Rafale.

Conclusion East or Best Rafael is the best :enjoy:
 
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