Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Abingdonboy]

@PARIKRAMA @randomradio @Abingdonboy

We must see one more aspect when it comes to deals with USA

Right now US ego is hurt and US Pakistan relations are bad

so US is looking to MAKE a POINT ( Make them realise That USA is the most resourceful ally )
to our neighbours and also to China

So for us this is the Best time to get a great deal from the USA

Why are fighters the only fare anyone seems to be taking about in this regard? Going for EMALS, MQ-4Cs and an Indian C-130XJ production line would be just as strategically significant as a fighter deal.

I think many are getting too carried away by Boeing/LM's propaganda. Look at the pathetic state of DTTI to see how far away India and the US are to signing a fighter deal. The most they are offering India is the co-production of the hand held Raven UAV at this point!

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Don't act like Pakistan... You need to be consistent not opportunist.

You are right ; but this is a great opportunity for India

Secondly we are not going to be like Pakistan -- do you think we will be duplicitious or betray you

Our alliance is Anti China And NOT Anti Russia -- we have made that pretty clear

The most they are offering India is the co-production of the hand held Raven UAV at this point!

It is time to PUSH the envelope

 

[randomradio]

I respect you as a person so please do not take the following personally.

Your first statement is hilarious as this would be the first in history as French were trying to make something else and it ending up becoming that and air superiority fighter as well. This was the sole contest between the French and the eurofighter consortium. French perceived the threat of su27 as just problem for all states and needed exports as well. They already had a flourishing mirage campaign. Whereas the other countries wanted a frontline / air superiority fighter. Edited so bad use of English. On iPhone

Everybody wants an aircraft that has been designed for air superiority, but can also handle other missions. The Rafale is just that. The Rafale ended up being exactly what the French wanted to make.

The Typhoon has been a badly handled program. So most of its development path towards mulltirole capability has been blocked for some reason or the other.

I know what PMF or PAK-FA is. The only thing that is working is T-50 and even Russia acknowledged the same. Pak-fa is the Russian version of the t50 concept. Currently it's su35 with a different skin. FGFA or PMF is still up in the air and it doesn't mean flying.

That's irrelevant because that's how development programs are. Similarly, the F-35 that you call it today is not the F-35. It is not even a fighter aircraft today. Both FGFA and F-35 are WIP.

 

[Dash]

If you want to discuss this topic of US Pakistan relations and US India relations
-- Then please open another thread -- I dont want to discuss it here

I can suggest a title too " Will US India relations go the same way as US Pakistan relations "

Opening another thread is unwarranted. But I personally don't want anybody spreading ideas that are not not going to work in a thread such as this.

I will welcome to have a conversation in another thread when the need comes. For the time being we can put it to rest.

Agreed

 

[Abingdonboy]

It is time to PUSH the envelope

This is what both sides have been saying for YEARS but there is almost nothing to show for it. For whatever reason India And the US just don't "fit" and the systems seem incompatible despite the grandiose rhetoric of being "natural partners".

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Opening another thread is unwarranted. But I personally don't want anybody spreading ideas that are not not going to work in a thread such as this.

I will welcome to have a conversation in another thread when the need comes. For the time being we can put it to rest.

Agreed

This is quite a fascinating subject

There are many opinions on it -- many members would like to have a say

Infact we do get advice on how to be wary of USA

And there are also forecasts made here ; how US will dump us too

This is what both sides have been saying for YEARS but there is almost nothing to show for it. For whatever reason India And the US just don't "fit" and the systems seem incompatible despite the grandiose rhetoric of being "natural partners".

Well things are getting better than before -- let us wait and watch

I am optimistic about India US relations and the benefits that they will bring to us

http://indianexpress.com/article/wo...nship-closer-than-ever-ashton-carter-2865232/

 

[Dash]

This is quite a fascinating subject

There are many opinions on it -- many members would like to have a say

Infact we do get advice on how to be wary of USA

And there are also forecasts made here ; how US will dump us too

Ok. Tag those members who want to have a say

I want to take permission from @Abingdonboy @Taygibay @randomradio @Vauban @PARIKRAMA to have this conversation.

 

[Mysticbuddy]

Everybody wants an aircraft that has been designed for air superiority, but can also handle other missions. The Rafale is just that. The Rafale ended up being exactly what the French wanted to make.

The Typhoon has been a badly handled program. So most of its development path towards mulltirole capability has been blocked for some reason or the other.



That's irrelevant because that's how development programs are. Similarly, the F-35 that you call it today is not the F-35. It is not even a fighter aircraft today. Both FGFA and F-35 are WIP.

I didn't wanted to respond but just food for your thought how many each has been produced.

 

[Jai Bharat]

This talk about F-16, F-35 seems pointless unless CISMOA and BECA are signed. Without which no American jets have a chance. I expected some movement or talk about these during Modi's US visit, but to no avail. I have not heard any movement on either of these key agreements in some while, so far only a tweaked version of LSA has been signed. If India doesn't sign, I don't see Uncle Sam selling the fighters, even if it is a 'match made in heaven'.

Pakistan having F-16 and giving full access to China also seems like a major hit for the LM offer. I just don't see it happening, even if follow-on F-35 is as magical and cost-effective as LM claims.

 

[Taygibay]

No confusion here despite random noise!
In fact, a post that outlines in one paragraph
that Dassault cannot talk but that MP does
shows the problem I have identified to exist.

Uneven ground = uneven results.

Tay.

 

[Piper]

Our alliance is Anti China And NOT Anti Russia -- we have made that pretty clear

What alliance? The one where India pussyfoots around even naming China as an aggressor? one were it wets itself when ever "joint patrol" is mentioned?

This is the theater of absurd. India has neither the guts nor the motivation to even fight with words let alone involve itself in an alliance against China.

If it would have been any other country with resources India has then it would have turned the offending parties to dust but all India can do is posture while clearly defined and targeted attempts are made in it's own territory by nation 1/7 it's size.

Often times I wonder why India even needs all this fancy hardware? Is it all for your Independence Day parade party or are you ever gonna use to punish? War is being fought in your territory. In Kashmir and in your cities, In my opinion you have already lost when the smaller party has the temerity to fight you in your own home!

Learn from history - You never fight wars in your home, you fight it in your enemy's home.

 

[randomradio]

I didn't wanted to respond but just food for your thought how many each has been produced.

No operational version has been made.

No confusion here despite random noise!
In fact, a post that outlines in one paragraph
that Dassault cannot talk but that MP does
shows the problem I have identified to exist.

Uneven ground = uneven results.

Tay.

The 'random' 'noise' only makes sense to the initiated. Your frustration is due to your lack of information. You don't need to insult others just because you can't take it.

Yes, you are confused, because you don't know anything that's been happening. You have become a victim of propaganda.

Oh, just so it's clear, some Rafales will be exported from India.

What alliance? The one where India pussyfoots around even naming China as an aggressor? one were it wets itself when ever "joint patrol" is mentioned?

This is the theater of absurd. India has neither the guts nor the motivation to even fight with words let alone involve itself in an alliance against China.

If it would have been any other country with resources India has then it would have turned the offending parties to dust but all India can do is posture while clearly defined and targeted attempts are made in it's own territory by nation 1/7 it's size.

Often times I wonder why India even needs all this fancy hardware? Is it all for your Independence Day parade party or are you ever gonna use to punish? War is being fought in your territory. In Kashmir and in your cities, In my opinion you have already lost when the smaller party has the temerity to fight you in your own home!

Learn from history - You never fight wars in your home, you fight it in your enemy's home.

Wets itself? Nope. India's a lone wolf. We don't do alliances. Even the US has begun to accept that.

We patrol alone.

 

[Taygibay]

I'm not frustrated in the least and I haven't insulted anyone.

Sorry, Tay.

 

[SR-91]

This is what both sides have been saying for YEARS but there is almost nothing to show for it. For whatever reason India And the US just don't "fit" and the systems seem incompatible despite the grandiose rhetoric of being "natural partners".

LOL!!!!
There is nothing natural about India and US partnership. They are totally different animals.
It just won't work.

 

[C130]

I still think the wiser move would be to go for F/A 18 Advance Super Hornets along with 5 to 10 E-2D Advance Hawkeyes

both could be used on land or on India future aircraft carriers


combination of Advance Super Hornet+AIM-120D+E-2D would be a deadly force against anybody

https://defence.pk/threads/revealed-japans-secret-weapon-to-destroy-chinas-j-20-and-j-31.402308/