Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[PARIKRAMA]

@PARIKRAMA Hello Sir

I wanted to ask about Two things

1 Who will be the Next defence minister

2 After the Agusta scam
the government is looking into the Pilatus and MMRCA Tendering and bidding process

So will Rafale deal get stuck up again

Hello my good friend,
First part, I cannot disclose bcz it's something with which I will be traced easily..

I can discuss the options which includes

1. shifting FM to handle the defense portfolio
2. Raising a recently elected RS member to DM level.
3. Raising the recently elected RS member to some other portfolio and a portfolio reshuffle based on successful track record of some ministers. This list includes good name like prabhu - railways and Gadkari - transport overall, power minister piyush goyal etc
4. Some junior ministers as well as other well know good man managers are also considered.
5. Internally Rao Inderjith Singh is also considered but his experience at national level is limited but that gentleman knows what is what as of now.
6. VK Singh name is doing rounds but that could be a mismatch owing to the fact that focus is improving air and naval power and realigning army with far more offensive firepower at individual level and deploying the reserve units to other forces to increase efficiency.
7. Some folks also wants to wait for July when 50+ new RS member are coming.. So there is a chance someone may handle it for sometime or 2-3 months as a caretaker DM.

So it's a bit of dicey proposition. S.Swamy name is gaining support but idea of him as DM does nt cut much ice with me as perhaps his one point agenda against Congress family will not be in sync with this role..

If you ask my personal opinion I had backed 3 guys including Inderjith singh but i had advised and cautioned against moving MP back to Goa. If BJP is clearly inclined as building MP up as a successor to NaMo based on performance, responsibility and mass appeal, then moving him back to Goa unit will backfire massively.

PM NaMo will fight max upto 2024 where in 2023 he will formally announce his successor name in public and build a image plus consensus. Thus MP moving back will backfire and open gates for other folks who may have mass appeal but also carry certain baggaes of controversies.

About second part, the NDA gov has initiated a new deal under G2G and the new Make in India part. The scope of the earlier investigation is the MMRCA deal. I had always questioned them on the deal structure and what were the flaws that for Rs 42000 crs 126 jets flyaway could nt be concluded.. What was the issue right from tender initiation to evaluation to finally signing bcz to me professionally it looked a big gestation period for absolutely NO result to carry forward. The whole tender and the structuring was impractical to begin with and for some good time I knew it won't be concluded. This whole Angle of motive of why it was done and for what needs to be understood.. Of course I speak apolitically. But knowing government and how politics is played , this would be again a mud slinging contest.

But the new Rafale deal of 36 + tranche 1 90 followed by 4 more tranches for IAF and IN will be done. That deal is far far strategic.. Barracuda tech, tech to AMCA, tech to LCA, tech to AURA project, tech of miniaturizing further the brahmos to a new Air launched variant which is less than 800-900 KGS but capable of carrying a 270 kg warhead for 150-200KT capability and a air launched range of 600km (ASMP type), cooperation and tech to a new generation of submarines -SSKs which are similar sized like the SSNs but almost double the size of scorpenes carrying a large cache of VLS and Torpedo tube launch missiles to provide ambiguity option for strike packages from deterrant perspective to space based collaborations. The field is too wide..

Interestingly all this was not done when original MMRCA made it clear much before the public announcement of France winning the deal. So everything needs to be understood of why some things were either overlooked or deliberately kept out..

The decisions are still not made for MP. Unless they find a credible replacement and from a long term perspective know that decision won't backfire. The same is for Rafales, it's way too much for any country including USA to match if they want to outsmart the French side.

 

[Abingdonboy]

2 After the Agusta scam
the government is looking into the Pilatus and MMRCA Tendering and bidding process

So will Rafale deal get stuck up again

There is ZERO connection between the MMRCA and the current Rafale deal. Wait for the paid trolls to come out and try to claim there is a link and discredit the Rafale deal at the behest of the Western masters.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

There is ZERO connection between the MMRCA and the current Rafale deal. Wait for the paid trolls to come out and try to claim there is a link and discredit the Rafale deal at the behest of the Western masters.

I am not saying that there is a connection

But there is news that The Government is re opening the Rafale deal

Since the present deal has not been signed ; the ONLY thing that remains to be investigated
is HOW and WHY we arrived at Rafale

So that in effect means going all the way upto 2007 when all SIX contenders
had made their bids

What this really means is that there will be further delay in signing the PRESENT Deal

There might be an inkling of Arms dealers doing the rounds of IAF Head quarters
offering bribes to Indians after the MMRCA process had rolled out

You must remember that several IAF retired people and Bureaucrats are being questioned
in AW deal

The previous IAF chief Browne is also under the scanner

The Pilatus deal was always fishy ; Now even the MMRCA looks questionable
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is Today's news

@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA

http://www.financialexpress.com/art...ual-hurdles-delay-rafale-deal-takeoff/249396/

 

[Abingdonboy]

1. shifting FM to handle the defense portfolio
2. Raising a recently elected RS member to DM level.
3. Raising the recently elected RS member to some other portfolio and a portfolio reshuffle based on successful track record of some ministers. This list includes good name like prabhu - railways and Gadkari - transport overall, power minister piyush goyal etc
4. Some junior ministers as well as other well know good man managers are also considered.
5. Internally Rao Inderjith Singh is also considered but his experience at national level is limited but that gentleman knows what is what as of now.
6. VK Singh name is doing rounds but that could be a mismatch owing to the fact that focus is improving air and naval power and realigning army with far more offensive firepower at individual level and deploying the reserve units to other forces to increase efficiency.
7. Some folks also wants to wait for July when 50+ new RS member are coming.. So there is a chance someone may handle it for sometime or 2-3 months as a caretaker DM.

So it's a bit of dicey proposition. S.Swamy name is gaining support but idea of him as DM does nt cut much ice with me as perhaps his one point agenda against Congress family will not be in sync with this role..

VK Singh- A guarenteed disaster of a DM. Not only would this completely destroy the focus that has to be on the Navy (with the Air Force a close second) but VK Singh isn't even liked by the current IA brass all of whom he royally scr*wed as he made his less than dignified exit from the COAS position. The IA likes to conisder themselves as men of honour and most of them (especially in the very senior positions) feel that VKS dishonoured his office, service and fellow soldiers. Furthermore, what credentials does VKS have as a senior minster? There is actually very little crossover between the COAS and DM positions, both demand very different skillsets an managing.

Prabhu/ Gadkari/ Goyal - have proven themselves as truly outstanding ministers and that is why I would prefer they remain where they are. Power, railways and roads are all ESSENTIAL ministries (not that Defence isn't) and if they left their posts would their succesors perform to the same levels? I can't help but be cynical.

Swamy- Just no, a loudmouth in RS is one thing but how that makes him qualified to be DM I don't know. He would be a total disaster.


I still don't see a better candidate than Parrikar. Yes he has a bit of a big mouth but he has finally started to settle into his post and started delivering, DPP-2016 is a masterpeice and critically he seems to have vision and a sound head. Most of the decsions he has taken have been sound especially scrapping the self-defeating blacklisting policy. I think if given 5 years Parrikar could fundamentally change the way the MoD functions for the betterment of the entire defence industry and military. The last thing that is needed is another career politcan "keeping the seat warm" with no real interest in defence.

But the new Rafale deal of 36 + tranche 1 90 followed by 4 more tranches for IAF and IN will be done. That deal is far far strategic.. Barracuda tech, tech to AMCA, tech to LCA, tech to AURA project, tech of miniaturizing further the brahmos to a new Air launched variant which is less than 800-900 KGS but capable of carrying a 270 kg warhead for 150-200KT capability and a air launched range of 600km (ASMP type), cooperation and tech to a new generation of submarines -SSKs which are similar sized like the SSNs but almost double the size of scorpenes carrying a large cache of VLS and Torpedo tube launch missiles to provide ambiguity option for strike packages from deterrant perspective to space based collaborations. The field is too wide..

So this is still going on despite these frankly bizzare overtures to the US and desire to keep the US MIC happy?

Interestingly all this was not done when original MMRCA made it clear much before the public announcement of France winning the deal. So everything needs to be understood of why some things were either overlooked or deliberately kept out..

The previous DM was entirely procedurual- to a fault. He did not think of "out of the box" solutions and thus saw the MMRCA as a jet buy and little more, the notion of leveraging it for strategic benefits probably never occured to that genius.

Since the present deal has not been signed ; the ONLY thing that remains to be investigated
is HOW and WHY we arrived at Rafale

So that in effect means going all the way upto 2007 when all SIX contenders
had made their bids

What this really means is that there will be further delay in signing the PRESENT Deal

There might be an inkling of Arms dealers doing the rounds of IAF Head quarters
offering bribes to Indians after the MMRCA process had rolled out

You must remember that several IAF retired people and Bureaucrats are being questioned
in AW deal

The previous IAF chief Browne is also under the scanner

The Pilatus deal was always fishy ; Now even the MMRCA looks questionable

Nope, nope and nope again.

Anyone that truly beleives that this new GoI entered into exclusive G-G talks for the Rafale after having already scrapped the MMRCA process without having conducted proper due dilligence is being naive. Why would the PM and DM enter into such talks and leave themselves open for being brought down by the EXACT same scams as the criminals they were replacing? The fact that this GoI and DM have pursued the Rafale for >1 year now indicates everything is above board, neither Modi nor Parrikar have anything at all invested in the deal other than getting the best deal for India.

This is the usual camp jumping on the Rafale deal to try and malign it. It's only a matter of time before the Gripen is being pushed again by these clowns.

@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA

http://www.financialexpress.com/art...ual-hurdles-delay-rafale-deal-takeoff/249396/

A Non-story if ever there was one, not only is this very old news but these issues can be resolved in a week if both sides are interested.

+ @Stephen Cohen I would LOVE to know how the Swiss Pilatus, Anglo-italian AW and French Dassualt could possibly be linked. Any idiot who is looking to tie them all to a common "wrongdoer" is entirely ignorant of how different all these companies are.

 

[randomradio]

VK Singh is honest. He will be a very good RM.

But I don't think the RM will be changing anytime soon.

 

[Abingdonboy]

VK Singh is honest. He will be a very good RM.

But I don't think the RM will be changing anytime soon.

"Honesty" isn't the sole trait one needs to be a good DM, in fact it isn't even the top 5.

VK Singh as DM would create a great deal of unease by ALL three services. I just don't see what he would be able to accomplish plus he has shown since retiring that he can't control his mouth. Prabhu would be the man but he is busy with Railways and doing fine things there so best to leave him in place.

 

[Taygibay]

+ @Stephen Cohen I would LOVE to know how the Swiss Pilatus, Anglo-italian AW and French Dassualt could possibly be linked. Any idiot who is looking to tie them all to a common "wrongdoer" is entirely ignorant of how different all these companies are.

Especially since the common side ( wrong or right doing ) is GoI!

Just sayin' Tay.

 

[Nimitam]

"Honesty" isn't the sole trait one needs to be a good DM, in fact it isn't even the top 5.

VK Singh as DM would create a great deal of unease by ALL three services. I just don't see what he would be able to accomplish plus he has shown since retiring that he can't control his mouth. Prabhu would be the man but he is busy with Railways and doing fine things there so best to leave him in place.

Honesty is not required to be a good DM, but it is required to be have a public perception of a honest man to become DM.

MoD is a place where maximum multi Billion $ purchases take place. Add to that the secrecy that come with Defence, its a hot potato.

The only people who has the image of honesty in the Modi govt. is Modi, Dr. swamy, Parrikar and Smriti Irani. Its going to be a tough call. Amit Shah is also above board, but he is party president and the BJP cannot afford to loose him from a party post.

 

[sathya]

Honesty should come with efficiency ... Otherwise will end up like ex DM Anthony .

 

[Nimitam]

Honesty should come with efficiency ... Otherwise will end up like ex DM Anthony .

Goes without saying, but I guess after St. Antony it needs to be said out loud

 

[randomradio]

Sincere is the right word.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Sincere is the right word.

For whom

 

[randomradio]

For whom

For all that reference to honest.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

For all that reference to honest.

Sincerity of Antony was only towards his master ; Sonia

He made a mess which we are still cleaning up ; he was not sincere towards his job

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale next aircraft to take up India’s Nuke Job ?
Published April 26, 2016
SOURCE: Anand SG / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

French air force Rafale seen above armed with Nuclear capable ASMP-A Cruise missile
India and France are on the final lap of negotiations and close to an agreement to sell 36 Rafale fighter jets. 36 Rafale fighters will make up barely two Squadrons in Indian Air Force While IAF wants to further expand Rafale fleet to 60 aircraft but MOD now seems to be more interested in Making in India American F-16 or F-18 fighter jet in locally then procure more French-built Rafale Omni role fighter jet .
Can Two Squadron of French Rafale fighter jets change the outcome of a war ? Not really but Rafale fighter jet might still play a vital role in India’s deterrence capabilities and might be next designated aircraft which will be tasked to deliver a nuclear weapon when needed .
At Present Mirage-2000 are the first go to aircraft by India’s Strategic Forces Command (SFC) who are responsible for the management and administration of the country’s tactical and strategic nuclear weapons stockpile other second lines of designated aircraft are Jaguars and Sukhoi-30 MKI in Indian Air Force fleet , Rafale most likely will supersede Mirage-2000s since French Company never shyied away in mentioning Rafale fighter jet has Nuclear Capable fighter jet in its bid documents for MMRCA Tenders and never objected in past for modifying French Mirage-2000s to carry nuclear weapons designed by India .
Interestingly in 2010 Strategic Forces Command had submitted a proposal to the Defence Ministry for setting up of two dedicated squadrons (40 nos) of fighter aircraft which will act as a mini-Air Force ,separately from Indian Air Force and will be dedicated Nuke delivery platform for SFC .
India most likely will receive Rafale fighter jets minus Nuclear air-launched cruise missile Air-Sol Moyenne Portée (ASMP) currently been used by France to deliver singular variable yield ‘TN 81’ Nuke warhead . India is working on lighter Mach 3 capable Brahmos-NG with a range of 290km to be later modified to carry smaller nuclear warhead for similar roles in near future and plans are to adapt it to other fighter jets like Mirage-2000, Mig-29 and even Rafale Fighter jets.