Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[sathya]

Nope,that is su34. Only su34 have enough range to take off from indian air base and do bombing missiin over china by flying over Tibet. Rafale may be a wonderfull ac with hightech electronics but it lacks the range factor to perform offensive mission on mainland china,Yeas it is good option to deal with Chinese outpist in tibets and possible future plaaf aircraft crossinng lac nd border.

MMRCA one of the main aim was , not to put all eggs in one basket.

 

[WhyCry]

@Spectre

In case you have any doubts about Chinese thinking and intentions
Please REMEMBER that China has Settled its land Border disputes with
ALL COUNTRIES EXCEPT India

Your facts are wrong. China has disputed with every country it shares border with (including Russia) except Pakistan. It does not recognize the Mcmohan line the WW II limits.

The problem that china has with India is that of Tibet and Dalai lama. Tibet self autonomous government was overthrown and Indian took them in exile. There still exists a government in exile. To claim Tibet they say arunachal pradesh to be part of Tibet. which is basically a claim to punish India since they don't want anyone to recognize Tibet just like Taiwan.

Hello Sir

Are we getting Meteor missile

Probably not as they are not in production yet... still testing. Also they are estimated to be around $200,000 a piece. Not in this this price point.

 

[sathya]

Hope atleast rafale jets hav aesa radar

It will, rest assured.

No need to worry, no one helps in submarine reactor tech.. We are slated to get some help there as well..
AMCA will benefit from it..
Many defence industries in private sector will bloom.


It's going to put pressure on Pakistan, forcing them to spend in defence as well.
In all defence sector is going to bloom.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Sir we all know thales paid 10$ million bribe to indian officials in scorpene submarine deal. In the end we hav to pay $1billion per submarine which did not hav aip. Same is happening here, they already paid the bribe in previous tenour

If there was even a shred of evidence for this DCNS would have been blacklisted long ago, Ak Anthony blacklisted many more for a lot less.

Mirage UPG, scorpene - congress efficiency
Rafale - BJP

It's not France who is bleeding us, it's us who is trading .

@Abingdonboy
I can't even imagine how much of money needed to develop this country.
Even for a single state like Tamil Nadu, 100 billion $ won't be enough just to improve the governance alone.
We need time, enormous planning, execution to improve society As a whole .

IF IT WAS EASY, everyone would do it. Look around the world- there are more have nots than haves, India won't get there overnight but it is on the right path.

Hope atleast rafale jets hav aesa radar

Seriously? This is the MINIMUM specification for the Rafales coming to the IAF.

 

[WhyCry]

Mirage UPG, scorpene - congress efficiency
Rafale - BJP

It's not France who is bleeding us, it's us who is trading .

@Abingdonboy
I can't even imagine how much of money needed to develop this country.
Even for a single state like Tamil Nadu, 100 billion $ won't be enough just to improve the governance alone.
We need time, enormous planning, execution to improve society As a whole .

That's Mirage UPG, scorpene (lost 5 years) - congress inefficiency.

Also development is not an overnight process. it has to be done with people by the people.

 

[Abingdonboy]

+ @valluvan it's time india/some Indians stopped blaming external parties for troubles at home- XYZ is a failure because ABC paid a bribe to LMO (a foreign entity). It's all too easy to simply blame things in corruption, rather one should ask why the skill levels are so low across the Indian workforce, why so many of India's top talent has gone abroad (perhaps not so much anymore) in search of opportunities, why there is so much inefficiency in so many projects.

As unpalatable as it may be to hear, issues that arose at MDL via a vis the Scorpenes were very much on the Indian side- a lack of industrial know how on the Indian side (causing delays and an inability to absorb ToT) and sheer incompetency of the babus (fail into include even get most basic clauses and elements in the original contract).

 

[WhyCry]

Wil indian rafales have aesa radar?

Yes

 

[Abingdonboy]

I am still cannot believe we r paid $2.3 billion for mirage upgrade while pakistan is getting 8 brand new f16 block 52 from usa for 500million

With exactly 0 industrial benefits for Pakistan. The Mirage 2000 UPG is beautifully complimentary to the Rafales the IAF will be operating and thus the cost, whilst being on the high side, are perfectly justifiable to keep those beasts flying another 20 years.

 

[WhyCry]

+ @valluvan it's time india/some Indians stopped blaming external parties for troubles at home- XYZ is a failure because ABC paid a bribe to LMO (a foreign entity). It's all too easy to simply blame things in corruption, rather one should ask why the skill levels are so low across the Indian workforce, why so many of India's top talent has gone abroad (perhaps not so much anymore) in search of opportunities, why there is so much inefficiency in so many projects.

As unpalatable as it may be to hear, issues that arose at MDL via a vis the Scorpenes were very much on the Indian side- a lack of industrial know how on the Indian side (causing delays and an inability to absorb ToT) and sheer incompetency of the babus (fail into include even get most basic clauses and elements in the original contract).

I am with you and against you. I know that the technological know-how is lesser for the Indian workforce and infrastructure is newly built for the new platforms. But Indian bureaucracy is not having its first day in the field. They have handled big projects and have dealt previously as well (with their share of failures). But we cannot ignore that France tried to pull another Vikramaditya on India with scorpenes so was the case for Rafael (with engine and electronics in the annexure). This does not mean that they are screwing us or product is inferior.

All in all I would say Parikar is the best man for the job.

 

[AugenBlick]

Wil indian rafales have aesa radar?

So you "know" that Rafaels are downgraded but do not know if they have AESA.

 

[WhyCry]

With exactly 0 industrial benefits for Pakistan. The Mirage 2000 UPG is beautifully complimentary to the Rafales the IAF will be operating and thus the cost, whilst being on the high side, are perfectly justifiable to keep those beasts flying another 20 years.

True and the main issue with the new Rafael would be the integration of communication systems and targeting pod (uses democleas and India uses LITENING) with is already done in case of Mirage.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I am with you and against you. I know that the technological know-how is lesser for the Indian workforce and infrastructure is newly built for the new platforms. But Indian bureaucracy is not having its first day in the field. They have handled big projects and have dealt previously as well (with their share of failures). But we cannot ignore that France tried to pull another Vikramaditya on India with scorpenes so was the case for Rafael (with engine and electronics in the annexure). This does not mean that they are screwing us or product is inferior.

All in all I would say Parikar is the best man for the job.

With all due respect, the Scorpene and Rafale/MMRCA deals were/are both more complex than almost all other deals that have come before them (in their respective fields ). I wouldn't blame Indian babus entirely but I would go a large degree


+ I do see Parrikar more positively now than I had 1 week ago but I would take it further and say MODI is the best man for the job. Make in India, start up India and Skill India are all going to change the face of India (along with other unrelated mega projects ).

 

[WhyCry]

With all due respect, the Scorpene and Rafale/MMRCA deals were/are both more complex than almost all other deals that have come before them (in their respective fields ). I wouldn't blame Indian babus entirely but I would go a large degree


+ I do see Parrikar more positively now than I had 1 week ago but I would take it further and say MODI is the best man for the job. Make in India, start up India and Skill India are all going to change the face of India (along with other unrelated mega projects ).

Couldn't agree more .

 

[Abingdonboy]

True and the main issue with the new Rafael would be the integration of communication systems and targeting pod (uses democleas and India uses LITENING) with is already done in case of Mirage.

Not only that but the Mirage 2000 UPG has seen a considerable ecosystem established in India to cater for it almost all of which will/can be leveraged for the Rafale in Indian service. In fact, this is a HUGE bonus that no one seems to give much attention to. Any other OEM (SAAB, Boeing, LM etc) would have to set up entirely new supply chains and build partnerships entirely from scratch but Dassualt has already got an extensive presence in this sector and this will only lead to massive cost and efficiency savings when the Rafales come to India. @PARIKRAMA

 

[AugenBlick]

Contrary to speculation that India and France have reached an agreement for the direct purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets, official sources said talks on pricing had reached a critical phase and were expected to be completed in a few months.

Sources said the differences over pricing had narrowed down considerably, and the talks were in the final phase.

While the French offer was about €11 billion, India said it would not go beyond €8 billion. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has clarified on various occasions that there will be no compromise on the price.

A senior diplomat refused to give a timeline for concluding the deal but expressed the hope that it would be done by June.

Hahaha Copy pasta from news traders ... The deal is done baby @PARIKRAMA has shared many details including work share and indian industrial benefits etc. He has been pretty accurate till now. and he broke the news before these mediaw***s