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Dangerous Doctrines..

If you're going to the hangman's noose anyway, then why not take your enemies down with you?

If they believe that you will take them down with you, or otherwise cause unacceptable damage to them, then you have achieved DETERRENCE. Which is the entire point.

Also, I think you might be biased, on the account of the fact that India is a potential target in this scenario.

Of course an Indian won't like this doctrine, because they get the wrong end of the stick even if they are not at fault. But who cares? This is a section for Pakistan's strategic interests, not India's.

Because this is not about a game of chess, its about the 6th largest populated country in the world, they cant just sacrifice them for a bunch of nukes

if they drag india or israel for a nuke black mail, be prepared for the biggest can of whoopa$$
 
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What people do not realize here and neither did the author of the post, what does Iran posses that could potentially threaten the US? The difference b/w Iran and Pakistan is that Iran has not allowed the US to meddle in their internal matters in a long long time and they have always made it obvious that they would militarily protect their country while on the other hand Pakistan has allowed the US to meddle in the internal affairs for quite a long time and has never threatened, literally, to take measures to defend the country.

If today, General Kiyani orders drones to be shot down and for the military to be prepared to defend the country against any aggression by all means necessary and available......(especial note for Indians -> my emphasis on the word 'defend'!), would the US dare engage us?
 
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see even if the US takes away nukes of Pak (say hypothetically because of a war b/w US and Pak) Pak as a country would still survive and there people would still be alive and they can live their life.. ( except for the soldiers who will die in a war on both sides and he civilian casualties that goes for another war). So i can say in that war, PAk military will loose, loose nukes also, and some number of casualties would be there..... but 99% of Pak lands and people would be alive......

option 1)
so loose WAR, loose Nukes, some casualties, 99% pak people alive and their lands not a nuclear waste.


But what CD (the epic ccp guy) here is saying that in case of Pak US war, Pak should not choose the above option but go for the below option:

option 2)

loose WAR, Loose Nukes, 100% Pakistanis Killed, 100% Pakistan land as Waste Land. (consequences of Pak launching Nuke attack on India and India obviously also suffers enormous)

So tell me what will Pak choose in case US attacks Pak

option 1) loss of a war with few thousand deaths

or

option 2) complete wiping out of Pak civilisation (and making waste land of whole sub continent)


Chinese surley would like option 2. But I doubt the Pak would oblige u scums.
 
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The last man who tried this i.e. hitting ' other' targets needlessly in a war of his own making found himself on the business end of a hangmans noose.

Why create situations that led to such severe ( re) actions .
The hypothetical conflict being referred to would not be of 'Pakistan's own making' - the US has various options available to it that can reduce the tension and hostility in the US-Pakistan relationship, and put it back on a more cooperative track, but it has steadfastly refused to do so - whether out of imperial hubris or a calculated move to eventually engage Pakistan in a conflict is yet to be determined.

The efficacy of a nuclear deterrent, or any weapons deterrent, rests on the calculation by those the deterrent is targeted at that the country with the deterrent can and will use those weapons if its red lines are crossed. The scenario described by the author, in which he is criticizing certain individuals for advocating the use of nuclear weapons, would be such a red line. If Pakistan does not make its nuclear capability, the ability and willingness to use that capability in case of 'red lines being crossed, absolutely clear, then Pakistan's nuclear deterrent is worthless.

If the author cannot comprehend a simple point such as this, he really has no business commenting on international affairs.
 
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If Pakistan's Integrity is in danger and no other option is left then nuclear option should be exercised and India should be the only target .We should hit India main population centers to ensure that population is reduced by at least several hundred millions.Toss a few nukes at their main strategic installations (Dams, Military Installations etc).This is just a threat and this threat ensures that India does not wage full scale war against Pakistan or helps external countries to wage war against state of Pakistan and in any case I think if we are gonna die then we might as well take down our enemy too because we have nothing to loose.This is how nuclear deterrence works.Your enemy knows that he will also decimate you should you decide to destroy him.Indians want to commit aggression and expect Pakistan to greet them with flowers and sweets.
 
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The situation is way too far-fetched .

This isn't going to happen . America will not try to take Pakistan's nuclear weapons . This is just some conspiracy theories of Pakistan coming from hawkish elements. The only time America may try to do this is when the Taliban is about to over run Pakistan and get hold of nukes . Now that itself is far-fetched . Not going to happen .
 
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Agreed. With a small note: Conspiracy theory was hatched in the U.S.
The situation is way too far-fetched .

This isn't going to happen . America will not try to take Pakistan's nuclear weapons . This is just some conspiracy theories of Pakistan coming from hawkish elements. The only time America may try to do this is when the Taliban is about to over run Pakistan and get hold of nukes . Now that itself is far-fetched . Not going to happen .
 
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I keep hearing this 'they will take our nukes' theory from Pakistanis as well . Quite a lot .
These theories are based on Western/Israeli actions (striking Iraqi and Syrian nuclear sites) and commentary by US analysts and quotes attributed to US officials, of developing 'task forces to secure nukes, break apart Pakistan etc.'.

The US has done nothing but pour more fuel on the fire.
 
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I think you dont get the point -- with treacherous barbarians like the leading politicos, the patriotic military is the representative of the state ......some elements have been corrupted by hte previous dictators especially musharraf kazab --but by and large they represent the people of pakistan ---not the feudals and business class robber barons selected through rigged elections with fraudulent voter rolls......
 
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If Pakistan's Integrity is in danger and no other option is left then nuclear option should be exercised and India should be the only target .We should hit India main population centers to ensure that population is reduced by at least several hundred millions.Toss a few nukes at their main strategic installations (Dams, Military Installations etc).This is just a threat and this threat ensures that India does not wage full scale war against Pakistan or helps external countries to wage war against state of Pakistan and in any case I think if we are gonna die then we might as well take down our enemy too because we have nothing to loose.This is how nuclear deterrence works.Your enemy knows that he will also decimate you should you decide to destroy him.Indians want to commit aggression and expect Pakistan to greet them with flowers and sweets.

Is it being suggested that Pak should lob nukes into India if its nukes are threatened by the US even if not aggressive act is shown by India ?
 
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Is it being suggested that Pak should lob nukes into India if its nukes are threatened by the US even if not aggressive act is shown by India ?

If Pak launches nukes on India, India should launch nukes against both Pak and China.Everybody dies, US wins.
I don't know when will Asia learn from its past mistakes....
 
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These guys have lost their marbles, because if any American asset is targeted, then its curtains for Pakistan.

Let's face it. You can't thumb your nose at a global super power. Period!

That is a distinctly Indian attitude. I'm happy to say most Pakistanis don't share it at all, except perhaps a tiny westernized elite that blindly cheerleaders for all things west. We are a peaceful nation, even in the three wars with India, it was always India that crossed the International Border, never Pakistan. However, if certain lines are crossed and our nation's integrity is at risk, no one can guarantee that the nukes will not be used. We didn't make these nukes to gather dust.

And we have a whole range of nuclear responses. For example, when India amassed on our borders, sensing an opportunity after 9/11 with immense US pressure and threats on Pakistan(making an excuse that the indian parliament building was attacked - later on the investigation was quietly brushed under the carpet, we still have no conclusive proofs to date), the Indian army's mobilisation was too slow, took over a month, by which time Pakistan Army was already deployed, and in reaction to that, India developed this Cold Start doctrine of attacking using smaller columns at multiple places without warning. And Pakistan announced its tactical level nukes which use solid fuel rockets which can be launched at a moments notice, and completely obliterate entire advancing columns in one single hit.
So if worst comes to worst and our territorial integrity is threatened, we can respond appropriately. Don't have to start an all- out nuclear war, but Inshallah any attack on Pakistan will be much more costly, than attacking countries like Vietnam, Korea, Iraq or Afghanistan. We are one of seven nuclear weapons capable countries in the eorld, and any offshore aircraft carrier groups, attack force or supply/transport ships could easily be taken out, even if we can't hit mainland US. Also, Israel is within reach, and we threatened to hit their facility at Dimona, when they came to hit our nuclear facility at Kahuta from India, after their attack on Ossirak. Israel is their "Ladla bacha"(beloved child).

As for no-one being able to stand up to the US, tell that to the Afghans. I remember how arrogant the US was post 9/11. How their satellites could tell the color of your eyes from outer space, and that the resistance had no-where to hide because of that. And how the war would end and the US would overwhelm the resistance within a couple of weeks. Eleven years later, the mujahideen groups(they don't call themselves taliban, only US does) control the majority of the area, US and it's posse groupies mostly stay in urban centers and pay the resistance "protection money" to be able to move supplies. The US impartial media does not talk about this at all, nor do they mention that these glorified rambos require adult sized diapers to fight. Seeing how poorly equipped the Afghans were, Soviets also expected to overwhelm them in 90 days. Superpowers get arrogant with power. India isn't even a superpower, has had stock market crashes and vehicle manufacturing plants shutting down, still it important more arms than anyone, and has border disputes with each and every neighbor.

The whole focus is Pakistan, the media claims that the US is loosing because of militant strongholds inside Pakistan. The mujahideen control over 80% of Afghanistan, why would they need to hide here. Our government only came to power with US assistance, Zardari was a wanted criminal who couldn't even land in Pakistan without going straight to jail, before US patronage. Condoleezza Rice proudly writes about what a huge accomplishment it was for the US to get a "moderate" government(as opposed to Islamic and anti-US) installed in Pakistan, in her book.

So bowing to western bullying is not the solution. We gave already paid too high a price, by letting the West meddle in our internal affairs.
 
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South Asians and their obsession with blowing each others marbles & carrots! it never gets old even after more than a decade since the bomb tests!!! maybe in the next 50 years the south asian neighbours might grow up!
 
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That is a distinctly Indian attitude. I'm happy to say most Pakistanis don't share it at all, except perhaps a tiny westernized elite that blindly cheerleaders for all things west. We are a peaceful nation, even in the three wars with India, it was always India that crossed the International Border, never Pakistan. However, if certain lines are crossed and our nation's integrity is at risk, no one can guarantee that the nukes will not be used. We didn't make these nukes to gather dust.

Contentious , to say the least.
 
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