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Dangerous Doctrines..

third eye

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Brinkmanship will never help, someday if the bluff is called there will be no place to run..

Parts of this article make shocking reading.

The article should have been titled Suicidal Doctrines .



Dangerous doctrines | DAWN.COM

IN recent months, worsening US-Pakistan relations kicked off a cantankerous debate in the media.

But within this larger debate, some hawkish voices have been advocating an insidious nuclear weapons doctrine: use them or lose them.

For them, Washington’s increased use of ‘sticks’ to get what it wants may just be a trial run for a larger American military assault on Pakistan. As one retired ambassador sees it, this impending aggression is linked to American domestic politics.

Apparently, President Barack Obama is looking for a ‘soft target’ to cement his national security credentials in the face of continued Republican criticism in an election year.

Iran is no longer a viable option for attack because it can retaliate with ferocity. In contrast, American military planners see Pakistan as an easy target because both Abbottabad and Salala have clearly demonstrated the Pakistani military’s inability or unwillingness to fight back.

This ‘domestic politics’ explanation of an imagined war is flawed. For one, the American electorate has no appetite for another costly foreign military engagement, especially given poor economic conditions at home.

In the last six months, support for an already unpopular war in Afghanistan has declined sharply amongst both Democrats and Republicans. For instance, a March 2012 New York Times/CBS poll showed that more than two thirds (69 per cent) of Americans from both parties oppose the war, up from 53 per cent in November 2011.

The growing unpopularity of US military operations in Afghanistan is one of the main reasons why the administration is so desperate to cut its losses and get out. War with nuclear-armed Pakistan could turn out to be a political (and even foreign policy) disaster for his administration.

But nuclear-use theorists are not too bothered by these nuances. All they see is a presumably hostile America itching for a fight.

Warning Washington that nationalism will force the Pakistan military to react to another military operation on Pakistani territory, their proposed strategy for preventing a wider war is catastrophically simple: the military should clearly convey to the Americans that if an actual conflict were to break out, and they tried to get Pakistan’s atomic weapons, it will have no choice but to pull the nuclear trigger.

This proposed ‘use it or lose it’ doctrine is dangerously misguided. For one, it needlessly extends Pakistan’s India-specific ‘first-use’ policy to the US, the world’s most powerful nuclear-armed state with an overwhelming second-strike capability. This is tantamount to strategic suicide, especially because Pakistan lacks the delivery mechanisms of the requisite geographical reach.

Second, if the idea is to drop a ‘tactical’ nuclear warhead on US Special Forces inside Pakistani territory, it will impose unimaginably terrible short- and long-term human costs.

Some ‘liberal’ doves might find it baffling that a preventive nuclear strike can be advocated. But then Pakistan is not a normal state. In most normal states, civilians have the inherent right to define threats to national security and the military only has the delegated duty to defend against those threats.

In Pakistan, the military has usurped the right to both define and defend, while brooking little or no dissent. Military dominance over strategic policy has created compelling professional incentives for civilian officials to peddle GHQ’s line.

Take the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a general rule, the more hawkish you are, the more likely you are to land the strategically important diplomatic assignments. It has also socialised many civilians into the military’s pessimistic and paranoid national security perspective as the only proper one.

In this worldview, the Pakistani state is constantly under siege, being maligned, targeted and conspired against by an assortment of enemies, especially for ‘gate-crashing’ into the nuclear club.

Anyone (whether it is a government, a think tank, an independent scholar, or even a former prime minister) who raises legitimate questions about the safety and security of Pakistan’s nuclear assets must be acting at the behest of the CIA/RAW/Mossad.


In the ‘pan-Islamic’ version of this narrative, Pakistan’s divinely blessed army is portrayed as the only force capable of foiling American hegemonic designs on the Islamic world, one of which is to ensure that no Muslim state acquires the ‘bomb’ with which it can threaten Israel. Hence, the US is desperate to denuclearise the only atomic Muslim state.

Never mind that the Pakistan Army has virtually always been available to the Americans ‘for rent’. Never mind that some of our ‘rogue scientists’ have proliferated nuclear weapons technology to unsavoury and unstable states, or that others have allegedly tried to collude with Al Qaeda.

Never mind that a few determined militants can successfully lay siege to GHQ and other strategic military installations. And above all, never mind that ‘godless’ North Korea is one of the principal targets of the US non-proliferation policy. These are what Max Weber called “inconvenient facts” which must be swept under the carpet in the ‘national interest’.

Here is an inconvenient fact. As long as Pakistan’s military violates the global democratic norm of civilian supremacy by controlling the country’s foreign and security policies, the rest of the world is unlikely to treat us as a ‘normal’ country. But why should we care about what the rest of the world thinks of us?

In another former diplomat’s opinion, we are not trying to win a popularity contest. Our primary goal must be to act in our best “national security interests”. And sometimes this might require casually threatening nuclear strikes on our ‘enemies’.

That’s right, only when you hold a gun to the head and threaten to pull the trigger, will the Americans understand that you mean business. And then we blame others for allegedly wanting to take away the gun.

The writer is a research fellow, Society of Fellows, Harvard University.
 
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But within this larger debate, some hawkish voices have been advocating an insidious nuclear weapons doctrine: use them or lose them.

Of course you have to use them or lose them. That is the entire point of deterrence.

Don't tell me that you would sit by while a superpower disarms you. Of all people, Asians should know what happens after that.

True, they cannot hit the American mainland (yet) until they get some nuclear armed submarines, but there are plenty of other targets.
 
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Of course you have to use them or lose them. That is the entire point of deterrence.

Don't tell me that you would sit by while a superpower disarms you. Of all people, Asians should know what happens after that.

True, they cannot hit the American mainland (yet) until they get some nuclear armed submarines, but there are plenty of other targets.

The last man who tried this i.e. hitting ' other' targets needlessly in a war of his own making found himself on the business end of a hangmans noose.

Why create situations that led to such severe ( re) actions .
 
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Warning Washington that nationalism will force the Pakistan military to react to another military operation on Pakistani territory, their proposed strategy for preventing a wider war is catastrophically simple: the military should clearly convey to the Americans that if an actual conflict were to break out, and they tried to get Pakistan’s atomic weapons, it will have no choice but to pull the nuclear trigger.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...191157-dangerous-doctrines.html#ixzz1z9jlEUNt
Pull the nuclear trigger? You have to have a target before you pull it. So, what and where is it? American assets in the Middle East? NATO/U.S. Forces in Afghanistan? The American 5th Fleet?

These guys have lost their marbles, because if any American asset is targeted, then its curtains for Pakistan.

Let's face it. You can't thumb your nose at a global super power. Period!
 
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The last man who tried this i.e. hitting ' other' targets needlessly in a war of his own making found himself on the business end of a hangmans noose.

Why create situations that led to such severe ( re) actions .

If you're going to the hangman's noose anyway, then why not take your enemies down with you?

If they believe that you will take them down with you, or otherwise cause unacceptable damage to them, then you have achieved DETERRENCE. Which is the entire point.

Also, I think you might be biased, on the account of the fact that India is a potential target in this scenario.

Of course an Indian won't like this doctrine, because they get the wrong end of the stick even if they are not at fault. But who cares? This is a section for Pakistan's strategic interests, not India's.
 
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If you're going to the hangman's noose anyway, then why not take your enemies down with you?

If they believe that you will take them down with you, or otherwise cause unacceptable damage to them, then you have achieved DETERRENCE. Which is the entire point.

Also, I think you might be biased, on the account of the fact that India is a potential target in this scenario.

Of course an Indian won't like this doctrine, because they get the wrong end of the stick even if they are not at fault. But who cares? This is a section for Pakistan's strategic interests, not India's.

It is interesting that no Pakistani has added to this thread thus far.

There is life after a war too.

Its like cutting off your nose to spite someone else.

I am not biased but amused that educated men can think the way the article above describes. As regards India , I feel it would suit India if Pak went this way.

After the holocast India will have to look only in one direction . That too is most unlikley as the exchange would have had a sobering influence on the world.
 
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Also, I think you might be biased, on the account of the fact that India is a potential target in this scenario. Of course an Indian won't like this doctrine, because they get the wrong end of the stick even if they are not at fault. But who cares? This is a section for Pakistan's strategic interests, not India's.
Huh? Wrong end of the stick??? But you do realize that Pakistan would then get the wrong end of a sledge hammer? But then, as you say, who cares?
 
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There is life after a war too.

Its like cutting off your nose to spite someone else.

Don't you understand the point of deterrence?

If your opponents do not believe they will face retaliation, what is stopping them from hitting you first? The whole point of deterrence is to make the other side believe that the response will cause unacceptable damage... thus deterring them from attacking you in the first place.

And of course you have to follow through with it. Think about the nuclear doctrine of MAD for instance.

You can lie down after it starts and declare that you are a Ghandian pacifist, but that's not going to stop anything. And surely won't deter anyone from attacking you.

Hypothetically, if there was a real possibility that China could come in and take ALL of India's nukes without significant resistance, then what would you do? Just let us take them, and prevent further escalation? What if NE India is the next demand?
 
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Don't you understand the point of deterrence?

If your opponents do not believe they will face retaliation, what is stopping them from hitting you first? The whole point of deterrence is to make the other side believe that the response will cause unacceptable damage... thus deterring them from attacking you in the first place.

And of course you have to follow through with it. Think about the nuclear doctrine of MAD for instance.

You can lie down after it starts and declare that you are a Ghandian pacifist, but that's not going to stop anything. And surely won't deter anyone from attacking you.

Hypothetically, if there was a real possibility that China could come in and take ALL of India's nukes without significant resistance, then what would you do? Just let us take them, and prevent further escalation? What if NE India is the next demand?

If China were to hypthetically come down to take all of India's nukes would India hit Sri Lanka / Nepal /BD out of spite just coz India does not have the delivery system to hit China ? Add to this the knowledege that SL/ BD/ Nepal posses the ability to decimate India with their nukes ?

Thats the point of stupidity I found in post No 1.
 
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If China were to hypthetically come down to take all of India's nukes would India hit Sri Lanka / Nepal /BD out of spite just coz India does not have the delivery system to hit China ? Add to this the knowledege that SL/ BD/ Nepal posses the ability to decimate India with their nukes ?

Thats the point of stupidity I found in post No 1.

That is completely different, and we all know it. The hostility between India and Pakistan is on an entirely different level to that with Nepal or Sri Lanka.

Plus, it gives an incentive to India to keep it from happening in the first place.

Hypothetically, let's say that during the Cold War, the USSR and China get into a full-scale nuclear war. In which both sides are going to get wiped out (hypothetically).

Don't you think that the USSR would spare a few nukes for the USA too? If they are facing annihilation, why not take their sworn enemy down with them too, even if they aren't directly involved?
 
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That is completely different, and we all know it. The hostility between India and Pakistan is on an entirely different level to that with Nepal or Sri Lanka.

Plus, it gives an incentive to India to keep it from happening in the first place.

Hypothetically, let's say that during the Cold War, the USSR and China get into a full-scale nuclear war. In which both sides are going to get wiped out (hypothetically).

Don't you think that the USSR would spare a few nukes for the USA too? If they are facing annihilation, why not take their sworn enemy down with them too, even if they aren't directly involved?

@ the underlined part, India will not stop the US from intervention, thats for sure unless it gets its pounds worth from Pak.

@ bold part, this is where the difference lies about responsible & non responsible nuclear states. Striking at a third party will only serve to accelerate the annihilation.
 
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Pull the nuclear trigger? You have to have a target before you pull it. So, what and where is it? American assets in the Middle East? NATO/U.S. Forces in Afghanistan? The American 5th Fleet?

These guys have lost their marbles, because if any American asset is targeted, then its curtains for Pakistan.

Let's face it. You can't thumb your nose at a global super power. Period!
FIVE MILLION EUROPEANS / WHITES SPREAD ACROSS THE GULF - ALL SHORT RANGE - Global economic implications? Anyone ready to digest that...... Are you kidding me?

Therefore, no one is coming to snatch f**k all!


@ the underlined part, India will not stop the US from intervention, thats for sure unless it gets its pounds worth from Pak.

@ bold part, this is where the difference lies about responsible & non responsible nuclear states. Striking at a third party will only serve to accelerate the annihilation.
Please feast alone on your mantra of "responsible & non responsible nuclear states". In nuclear deterrence-doctrines, whosoever can cause maximum havoc "ASSUREDLY" wins. PERIOD.

Is the other target Xingxang province of China where there is dense Han chinese illegal colonies??

Because the most likely scenario will be pakistani nukes will end up in the hands of terrorists or terrorist sympathizers.
FART merchant :D
 
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Please feast alone on your mantra of "responsible & non responsible nuclear states". In nuclear deterrence-doctrines, whosoever can cause maximum havoc "ASSUREDLY" wins. PERIOD.

I am not alone, the sane world I am sure is with me.

Good luck to the rest , they shall need it.
 
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I am not alone, the sane world I am sure is with me.

Good luck to the rest , they shall need it.
Mate, I'm sure that you're an intelligent individual. Most Indians that I've met at institutes of higher education have been bright enough. Please shed your bias and think logically for once.

If any nation on the planet let yanks disarm their nuclear weapons at will or if there was no perceived serious blowback, who do you think will be left with them? Just the Yanks.
 
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