Current Tensions in Xinjiang-China

[rubyjackass]

That was just an answer to your first para. About the rest...
Firstly I have not heard anything about the other side in the first reports of the news. Which can only mean that the media never talked to them by then.
And the government was busy blaming the exiled people, I do not understand if they really represent Uighurs.
Despite a clampdown on communication a large number of videos came into circulation during the said time.
The figures as I pointed are too perfect.
Nobody in China even now says a word about Uighurs. They are still defiant. May be you want to say they need not explain it to other countries. But at least explain to China and we will take the message.
Add to it the PR with Hui people as an address to Muslims.
Then there are reports of restrictions on journalists even as the admin arranged for a guided tour of the region, going back on their word. It is during the guided tour that the protests of Uighur women, covered by media and that caused embarasst the govt came out, as I understand.
The media was filled with nothing but the official version of events, not a bit more.

And see I am not saying Western media is reliable beyond doubt. What I said was that by letting wide coverage, the facts can be known and the reasons addressed.

This is also a humanitarian issue apart from the political drama in and outside China. Uighurs have no international recognition at all and the worst is that those that challenge the government cannot live there nor can they run away like Tibetans because of the closeness of Pakistani govt to China. Worse China makes Pakistan call these people terrorists. The least that China can do is to tell Chinese that they have this problem.


My attention to the incidents was not perfect. But these are my notes.

 

[muse]

My attention to the incidents was not perfect.

Well, nobody is perfect and remember that no one can recall all facts, after all there may be facts that we are not aware of - any way you look at it, there are facets that one is not as aware of as other facets, isn't that so?

Firstly I have not heard anything about the other side in the first reports of the news. Which can only mean that the media never talked to them by then.
And the government was busy blaming the exiled people, I do not understand if they really represent Uighurs.
Despite a clampdown on communication a large number of videos came into circulation during the said time.
The figures as I pointed are too perfect

.

The other side? to what are you referring? When Mumbai was attacked did you guys get to hear from laskar e this or that? Should you have???? You then go on to conclude that this "can only mean" that Chinese did not talk to everybody they thought they should speak to -- How cna you possibly conclude this - If indeed Chinese are serious then obviously they would have talked to everybody they could talk to.

You say the figures are too perfect - "too" perfect? What's that? The figures repersent those collected by the authorities, what imperfect and perfect got to do with it --

there are reports of restrictions on journalists even as the admin arranged for a guided tour of the region, going back on their word. It is during the guided tour that the protests of Uighur women, covered by media and that caused embarasst the govt came out, as I understand

First of all you admit that CHinese did bring in foreign media and they were supervised for their own security - you say they were not allowed to do their job and then claim that they covered a protest by women -- you seem to be arguing "heads I win, tails you lose" - It's a unreasonable position.

This is also a humanitarian issue apart from the political drama in and outside China. Uighurs have no international recognition at all

This is a rather curious position, a case of civil unrest you now charcterize as a humanitarian issue? Since when? no one has been denied medical assistance who may need it, in fact, quite the other way around. When there is a riot in the US such as there was in los Angels a while back, are you arguing that the rioters, mostly African American should have had international recognition? And When riots broke out in Eastern India, are you suggesting that rioters should have had international recognition?? I don't think this is a strong position.

If US media in particular and Western associated media are distrusted by most people it is because they seem to be untrustworthy. I think if you are going to cite that Chinese media present a state or official view, why would anyone want the view of these events from the point of view of Western security services or Western interests be acceptable???

See, ruby, in the final analysis, we are left with a damning conclusion about the impartiality and verasity of Western media, what they have lost by becoming partisan, they must undo by demonstrating their impartialty and this is not easy, because it is now part of the structure of Western media.

 

[Kasrkin]

All the threads relating to the civil unrest in Xinjiang have been merged.

Please continue discussing the issue in a coherent and civil way.

 

[paritosh]

If you'd read this thread from the beginning you'd see how such things were dismissed as rumors and 'propaganda' when they were first reported in 2006...and now most seem to realize that they were wrong all the while.

 

[skeptic9]

^ Chinese are caught by the Uighur coordination on this issue...

When Chinese used phrases like "the rioters" and "violent mob" to describe the protesters that woman Kadeem (?) produced photos of the protest live on TV showing large columns of Chinese military covering the streets. I also take western media reporting on China with a grain of salt but that thing struck me...The military was already deployed when the rally was peaceful and the streets were otherwise empty (except for military and the Uighurs); then how could they find and kill hundreds of Hans on the street??

Look for those clips, AlJazeera and CNN I guess.

 

[muse]

Chinese are caught by the Uighur coordination on this issue...

That's an interesting suggestion, perhaps if you may care to elaborate

When Chinese used phrases like "the rioters" and "violent mob" to describe the protesters that woman Kadeem (?) produced photos of the protest live on TV showing large columns of Chinese military covering the streets

How interesting, as if "the woman Kadeem" was prepared for the question? But prepared by whom? Who was questioning her? At what stage during the riots were "large columns of Chinese military covering the streets" - recall it took a few days for the chinese to get additional riot control forces into the province.

 

[DarkStar]

That's an interesting suggestion, perhaps if you may care to elaborate



How interesting, as if "the woman Kadeem" was prepared for the question? But prepared by whom? Who was questioning her? At what stage during the riots were "large columns of Chinese military covering the streets" - recall it took a few days for the chinese to get additional riot control forces into the province.

The Chinese already have a lot of army/para military in Xinjiang, as the province has been simmering for the last two decades. My father was in Urumqi and Kashgar a month back, and he has told me about how high the security presence on the streets was.

Another reason for disontent is that after the olympic games terrorist threats, a lot of Uighur's in Xinjiang, especially those in high posts in the police, adminstration, etc. lost their jobs. In the past year, the adminstration has taken a very obvious Han Chinese colour, which has invariably fueled tensions.

 

[rubyjackass]

The other side? to what are you referring? When Mumbai was attacked did you guys get to hear from laskar e this or that? Should you have???? You then go on to conclude that this "can only mean" that Chinese did not talk to everybody they thought they should speak to -- How cna you possibly conclude this - If indeed Chinese are serious then obviously they would have talked to everybody they could talk to.

Whats with your comparison spree?
Do you compare Mumbai terrorists with Uighurs? I am not asking them to get stories from rioters. Whatever explanation Uighurs could give came from outside China.
It can only mean that because if they talked to any Uighurs, they would have published their views about the allegations on the one sided bloodshed of the community.

You say the figures are too perfect - "too" perfect? What's that? The figures repersent those collected by the authorities, what imperfect and perfect got to do with it --

I don't know their motives, may be their drive to protect their national integration.
That is the situation we are talking about. Who said so? Like for example you see in Dawn that PA has killed so many militants everyday. Apparently no civilians die in this operation or people concerned have conveniently counted them among militants. Forget about the real count of PA soldiers that get killed(this might be very less but).

First of all you admit that Chinese did bring in foreign media and they were supervised for their own security - you say they were not allowed to do their job and then claim that they covered a protest by women -- you seem to be arguing "heads I win, tails you lose" - It's a unreasonable position.

What was this media doing when riots began? If they were so free then in the peaceful situation that was there before(when there is no need for security), they could have covered the initial phase of the riots.

This is a rather curious position, a case of civil unrest you now charcterize as a humanitarian issue? Since when? no one has been denied medical assistance who may need it, in fact, quite the other way around. When there is a riot in the US such as there was in los Angels a while back, are you arguing that the rioters, mostly African American should have had international recognition? And When riots broke out in Eastern India, are you suggesting that rioters should have had international recognition?? I don't think this is a strong position.

It is primarily a civil unrest case for the Chinese. Forgive my wording. It COULD be a humanitarian issue FOR the Uighurs(from their POVs. Could be if they are indeed fighting for separation which will be clearly futileas I mentioned earlier). We can never know exactly for sure. People are too eager to picture reality as their side of their story(both sides).

Call that a 'voice' if you dont want to call it ' intl recognition'. In CHina anyway they seem to have no chance of raising their voice. Now who exactly speaks for UIGHURS IN CHINA?
Dont tell me the exiles. That we cannot be sure.

If US media in particular and Western associated media are distrusted by most people it is because they seem to be untrustworthy. I think if you are going to cite that Chinese media present a state or official view, why would anyone want the view of these events from the point of view of Western security services or Western interests be acceptable???

See, ruby, in the final analysis, we are left with a damning conclusion about the impartiality and verasity of Western media, what they have lost by becoming partisan, they must undo by demonstrating their impartialty and this is not easy, because it is now part of the structure of Western media.

Again I did not say Western media in particular. If whatever non-Chinese or non state media in China is Western then so be it. But at least with that we will hear different POVs and claims, so one section is not unduly patronised.

 

[skeptic9]

 

[rubyjackass]

Uighur group 'regrets' photo error
Kadeer's use of the photo generated several responses from Al Jazeera viewers


An official of the World Uighur Congress has admitted that their exiled leader used an incorrect photograph to illustrate riots in China's western Xinjiang region, during an interview with Al Jazeera.

Alim Seytoff of the Uighur American Associaition said he and other Uighur leaders regretted the error.

Rebiya Kadeer, a former Uighur businesswoman who was jailed in China for several years and now lives in exile in the US, used the photograph during an interview earlier this week.

She said the photograph showed Chinese forces lined up on the streets of Urumqi, the capital of the Xinjiang.

However, the image was not of Urumqi, but is believed to be of an unrelated riot in the city of Shishou a month earlier.

Several news agencies including Reuters issued the photograph - apparently originally sourced from Twitter - last Monday, a day after riots broke out in Urumqi that Chinese officials say left more than 150 dead.

The mistake was picked up by several Chinese websites, China's state-run China Daily newspaper and by readers of the Al Jazeera website.

Apology

Speaking to Al Jazeera on Friday, Alim Seytoff of the Uighur American Associaition apologised for the error.

In depth


Image: Disputed 'riot' photo Video: Kadeer interview
Video: Exiled leader speaks out
"We deeply regret using this wrong photo, that was not our intent," he said, speaking from Washington.

"Later we were able to find out that the photograph showed Han Chinese protesters in Hubei province in a protest which took place a few days before the Urumqi unrest."

Seytoff said the photograph was one of hundreds of images and pieces of video that had been obtained from a variety of sources following Sunday's unrest.

"This picture happened to be one of them," Seytoff said. "The image quality is better than the others so we thought we thought this was a better image to use."

Nonetheless he said the mistake over one image should not cast doubt on the credibility of other images released by his organisation.

"With this photograph, because it was taken from a distance, you can only see protesters and Chinese army or soldiers – you cannot identify whether the protesters are Uighurs or not," he said.

"With all the other photographs you can see clearly they are Uighurs."

 

[DarkStar]

sigh..... china fears... blab.blab.blab. no nation in the world can say that XingJang is not a part of china. the Uighurs live there yes its true.... but to claim the area rightfully belongs to them is wishful thinking at best, i agree with some that in the future should the power of the central government weaken then we could see some independence movement succeed, but then again that wouldnt be unheard of, it has happen in the past (think ancient history and what not). now then as some had mentioned the uighurs were never there before the han peoples there is substantial proof to this and china being the oldest continuously civilization on earth does indeed has claims to the area no one can deny, in any map in the west you can see the rules of past chinese empires extending to that area.

on a more political note the area has lots of oil and other resources, the central government will NEVER let it go

It is on the basis of thei Historical claim, that Pakistan ceded to China a part of Kashmiri territory that China had claimed.

However, the issue is not about seperatism in Xinjiang, but the treatment of the Uighur community of Xinjiang.

They should have equal rights and opportunities as Chinese Han. A Uighur cannot go to South East China, and register as a citizen, yet the demographics of Xinjiang have been altered by incentivised migration.

Considering all the natural resources that the Center extracts from Xinjian, the Uighurs of xinjiang at least desrve a proper education and access to jobs. People are only interested in bettering their lives and those of their children, the Uighurs are no different.

Comparing their human aspirations with the intentions of terrorists, and using the Han Chinese communities there as a hammer to beat them when they ask for equal rights as chinese citizens is a big mistake by the authorities, and may exacerbate the problem to the extent that seperatist feeling could take root.

 

[skeptic9]

Uighur group 'regrets' photo error
Kadeer's use of the photo generated several responses from Al Jazeera viewers

OK I picked the worst possible video.

Thanks for correcting me.

 

[aimarraul]

the Xinjiang riots thread ends up like a "indian happy" show.Could this riots be worse than tiananmen incident in 1989,the whole world was blocking china then,what's china's answer:over 10% average GDP growth in the last 20 years,chinese won't buy western or india media's propaganda,enjoy your fun, my indian friends,china will be crushed by a criminal case if you keep doing this.

 

[skeptic9]

^ Ya 10% growth, excellent..carry on

Glory of Roman Empire was achieved on the sufferings of slaves too.

 

[shravan]

Could this riots be worse than tiananmen incident in 1989,

Off Topic

What was the real reason behind Tiananmen Square Incident ?