Current Tensions in Xinjiang-China

[skeptic9]

This event sounds like a classic CIA op and maybe some Islamic elements from surrounding countries were involved too.

 

[Omar1984]

I wish you all would stop being sympathetic for Uighurs. This is not about religion, its about an ETHNIC GROUP.

We can learn something from our Chinese friends because we are going through a very similar situation in Balochistan. Both Xinjiang and Balochistan are non-disputed territories, both are recognized by the UN as part of China and Pakistan respectively. Baloch are killing Punjabis in Balochistan and Uighurs are killing Hans in Xinjiang.

Why cant we as Pakistani citizens live and work in any place in Pakistan as we chose to (thats recognized by the UN as part of Pakistan), the same thing is true with Chinese...they have a right to live and work anywhere they want in China.

Dont fall in the trap of Indians, they were never happy about Pakistan and China's friendship.

 

[DarkStar]

thats not the case... anyway... Hans are more educated in tech subjects... also they speak & write Chinese... another advantage... so they are more preferable... Uighurs on the contrary less educated in tech subjects like engineering, medicine.... also they dont speak and write Chinese... these are reasons to new factories and hospitals to get suitable employees...

now if you go to America... & demand jobs when you only know Arabic for example... will you get job? .... perhaps you cant even get visa...

There's one big fallacy with your line of argument.

The Uighurs did not leave their homeland go to any other country to demand jobs. Their own language has been made obsolete in their own homeland. If technical subjects like engineering and medicine can be translated into chinese (a pretty weird sounding language to me), why can they not translate them into the Uighur tongue, which is turkic in origin, so there's a lot of material that can be used.

Now it's the fault of the Uighurs that they are not educated enough...Sounds like what Bhartis claim about muslims in Bharat...while the truth about the State's criminal neglect of a minority is shut out.

 

[DarkStar]

there are people from NY city migrate to california and vise wersa。the case between New Dheli adn Membai and no comment on your intelligience.

still regards.

That migration is not a State Sponsored scheme to dilute the demographics of a whole people,a nd their claim on their homeland.

That would be akin to northern/eastern liberal American states bussing liberal democrats to southern states, and encouraged to settle there, in order to win elections in unwinnable southern states.

Maybe the Japanese should have tried this in Manchuria.

 

[PAFAce]

The more I'm learning about the China-Uighur conflict, the more it worries me. In particular, I was reading the news below, about statements made by one of our greatest allies (Turkey) about another ally's (China) treatment of Turkic Uighurs. There is a small Uighur community within Pakistan as well. It begs the question, what would be the best possible Pakistani response to this situation? I would opt for silence, obviously, since we don't want to aggravate either ally, but if you read about the Uighur issues, it seems that silence, though convenient, may not be very ethical. Particularly if we consider our views on the Chechnya issue.

What do you guys think?
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Turkey attacks China 'genocide'

Turkey's prime minister has described ethnic violence in China's Xinjiang region as "a kind of genocide".

"There is no other way of commenting on this event," Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.

He spoke after a night-time curfew was reimposed in Xinjiang's capital, Urumqi, where Muslim Uighurs and Han Chinese clashed last Sunday.

The death toll from the violence there has now risen from 156 to 184, China's state-run Xinhua news agency reports. More than 1,000 people were injured.

Turkey, a predominantly Muslim country, shares linguistic and religious links with the Uighurs in China's western-most region.
Quentin Sommerville, BBC News, Urumqi After Friday's prayers, a small group of Uighur Muslims marched along an Urumqi street demanding the release of men detained for their alleged role in last Sunday's riot.

A large number of riot police surrounded the group, they punched and kicked the protestors - one officer used his baton to beat one of the Uighurs. A number of foreign journalists had their equipment seized, some have been detained.

Earlier the group said they feared for their safety. There's no word from the authorities as to what happened to them.

"The event taking place in China is a kind of genocide," Mr Erdogan told reporters in Turkey's capital, Ankara.

"There are atrocities there, hundreds of people have been killed and 1,000 hurt. We have difficulty understanding how China's leadership can remain a spectator in the face of these events."

The Turkish premier also urged Beijing to "address the question of human rights and do what is necessary to prosecute the guilty".

Mr Erdogan's comments came a day after Turkish Trade and Industry Minister Nihat Ergun urged Turks to boycott Chinese goods.

Beijing has so far not publicly commented on Mr Erdogan's criticism.

But it said that of the 184 people who died, 137 were Han Chinese.

Uighurs defiant

Earlier on Friday, the Chinese authorities reimposed a night-time curfew in Urumqi.

The curfew had been suspended for two days after officials said they had the city under control.

Mosques in the city were ordered to remain closed on Friday and notices were posted instructing people to stay at home to worship.

XINJIANG: ETHNIC UNREST
# Main ethnic division: 45% Uighur, 40% Han Chinese
# 26 June: Mass factory brawl after dispute between Han Chinese and Uighurs in Guangdong, southern China, leaves two Uighurs dead
# 5 July: Uighur protest in Urumqi over the dispute turns violent, leaving 156 dead - most of them thought to be Han - and more than 1,000 hurt
# 7 July: Uighur women protest at arrests of menfolk. Han Chinese make armed counter-march
# 8 July: President Hu Jintao returns from G8 summit to tackle crisis
#

But at least two opened after crowds of Uighurs gathered outside and demanded to be allowed in to pray on the holiest day of the week in Islam.

"We decided to open the mosque because so many people had gathered. We did not want an incident," a policeman outside the White Mosque in a Uighur neighbourhood told the AP news agency.

After the prayers, riot police punched and kicked a small group of Uighurs protesters, who demanded the release of men detained after last Sunday's violence, the BBC's Quentin Sommerville says.

Meanwhile, the city's main bus station was reported to be crowded with people trying to escape the unrest.

Extra bus services had been laid on and touts were charging up to five times the normal face price for tickets, AFP news agency said.

"It is just too risky to stay here. We are scared of the violence," a 23-year-old construction worker from central China said.

The violence began on Sunday when a Uighur rally to protest against a deadly brawl between Uighurs and Han Chinese several weeks ago in a toy factory in southern Guangdong province turned violent.

Tensions have been growing in Xinjiang for many years, as Han migrants have poured into the region, where the Uighur minority is concentrated.

Many Uighurs feel economic growth has bypassed them and complain of discrimination and diminished opportunities.

Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Turkey attacks China 'genocide'

Published: 2009/07/10 19:23:10 GMT

© BBC MMIX
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Please, all views are welcome, but be reasonable.

Brief information sources:
Uyghur
East Turkestan independence movement
Han Chinese

Edit
Oops, I just realized that the title of this thread may offend some. Moderators, please, can it be changed to "Han Chinese-Uighur Conflict - Pakistan's Response"?

 

[A1Kaid]

We can criticize CCP but A1Kaid are you suggestng Xinjiang does not belong to China?China got Xinjiang several decades ago.If any Pakistani brother support Free East Turkistan Movement (which is a terrorist movement )then it means he also support Free Balochistan and Free Pakhtunistan Movement and Taliban/AQ Terrorism.

"China got Xinjiang several decades ago." -Patriot

Now the question is how did China acquire "Xinjiang" which means "New Territory" or "New Frontier"? How did China acquire how did China get a hold of this Turkic-Muslim land of East Turkistan. The answer can be traced backed to 1946 when the Chinese PLA pursuing it's national expansionist policy under Mao Zedong invaded the independent East Turkistan nation, defeated the Turkic forces their, sacked the National assembly, and occupied the land.

"If any Pakistani brother support Free East Turkistan Movement (which is a terrorist movement )then it means he also support Free Balochistan and Free Pakhtunistan Movement and Taliban/AQ Terrorism."-Patriot

Nobody is encouraging terrorism, but what is absurd is that you have associated East Turkistan liberation and independence movement with terrorism, such a reductionist mindset is wrong to have. It is not the case I assure you, many Uyghurs are peaceful people but wish to fight for their independence.

Moving onto more serious ideas and thinking.


Now here is a challenge for my fellow Muslim-Pakistanis.

Suppose China was just as much of an enemy to Pakistan as India. I guarantee you, I repeat I guarantee you, you Pakistanis currently in favor of Chinese control of East Turkistan would call for and espouse East Turkistan freedom and independence.

Why the sudden change? It is because you people are hypocritical when it comes to your values and principals and to the extent of your character and religion. Some will argue it is more pragmatic for Pakistanis to shy away from this issue because Chinese is Pakistan's biggest ally, and believe me I understand. But "pragmatism", well how convenient for you to allow pragmatism undermine your principals and values you lose your moral high ground.

If China is our great friend then they ought to respect the concerns of Muslim Pakistanis who disagree with them on "Xinjiang", when true friends have issues they should resolve them.



Why don't you people just look at the world view. Muslim lands are occupied!


Why don't you Muslims see the bigger picture, why do you say it's none of my concern because this is happening to Turkic Muslims and not Pakistani Muslims?

The Muhammad Rasulullah SAW once said "Those who do not concern themselves with the affairs of Muslims are not of them." MashAllah. (accurate translation)


Whether it be

The Arab-Muslim affair of Palestine
The Caucus-Muslim affair of Chechyna
The Turkic-Muslim affairs of Cyprus, Nagorno Karabakh, and East Turkistan
The Pakistani-Muslim affair of Kashmir

You as Muslims must concern yourselves of Muslim affairs or you are not of the Muslims as the Prophet beautifully said.

The fact is Uyghurs are Turkic Muslims and they are living under Kaffir rule and face oppression it is no different than any other Muslim affair around the world!

 

[A1Kaid]

You people are too busy about what is considered and what is not considered disputed territory or non-disputed territory by the UN or the other international forums controlled by the West and it's international banking institutions.

Why have you followed the wrong path that leads to further damnation of the Muslim state and health? Because you are fools.

Their is a Quranic mandate that is superior to all man-made and human declarations to defend and fight for the Muslim state. If you do not understand these basic tenets of Islam then who are you really and what is your path?

 

[DarkStar]

Personally, I feel sometimes it is only a friend that can tell another friend a harsh truth, that one does not want to hear.

What better friend than Pakistan to do so?

But we are a Nation indebted to others, whether USA, China or Saudi/Gulf. How many years did it take us to raise the issue of child camel jockeys? Even then it was raised by Ansar Burney in a private capacity.

East Turkestan has as much right to freedom as Kashmir, even more so.

We can, in all civlity, agree to disagree with the Chinese regarding this issue. Yet do we have the mettle for it? Probably NOT.

We should, however, put the Turkish criticism in context. When was the last time that we heard Turkey speaking about atrocities of the Bharati forces in Kashmir? I certainly haven't.

Turks, even the JamateIslami inspired govt., are ultra nationalists and always speak up for other turks, or those they perceive to be so. The Uighurs are Turks, and the area they inhabit today Xinjiang/East Turkestan forms part of the original homeland of the Turks, so their outburst must be seen through the paradigm of their national consciousness

They are no bleeding hearts.

 

[wtf]

I agree. The official position from all the governments, Pakistan, India and USA is going to be absolute silence.

Russia has said "internal issue" so neither is Kazakhstan/Kyrgyzstan going to say anything. If anyone (other than Turkey) is going to comment it is going to be from Europe. I am guessing you might hear from Germany or France. They seem to somehow get away with speaking their minds on almost all issues around the world (Or don't care about consequences).

 

[PAFAce]

Personally, I feel sometimes it is only a friend that can tell another friend a harsh truth, that one does not want to hear.

What better friend than Pakistan to do so?

But we are a Nation indebted to others, whether USA, China or Saudi/Gulf. How many years did it take us to raise the issue of child camel jockeys? Even then it was raised by Ansar Burney in a private capacity.

East Turkestan has as much right to freedom as Kashmir, even more so.

We can, in all civlity, agree to disagree with the Chinese regarding this issue. Yet do we have the mettle for it? Probably NOT.

We should, however, put the Turkish criticism in context. When was the last time that we heard Turkey speaking about atrocities of the Bharati forces in Kashmir? I certainly haven't.

Turks, even the JamateIslami inspired govt., are ultra nationalists and always speak up for other turks, or those they perceive to be so. The Uighurs are Turks, and the area they inhabit today Xinjiang/East Turkestan forms part of the original homeland of the Turks, so their outburst must be seen through the paradigm of their national consciousness

They are no bleeding hearts.

Thank you DarkStar, this is exactly what I was hoping for, an intelligent debate. Were you aware that I was recently accused of being a CIA/RAW agent on these forums? Yes, it gave me a hearty laugh as well. Moving on.

Well, I don't know how strong the East Turkistan movement is, but I would definitely like something to be done about the unequal treatment of Uighurs in China. I believe that separatist feelings can be defeated in Xinjiang if the Uighurs get similar treatment as the Han Chinese, which quite apparently they don't. Also, a little more sensitivity on the issue by the Chinese will be beneficial, because it is a well proven fact that by blocking Muslims from praying on Friday, you will only increase the aggravation. The Chinese need to study the issue and deal with is properly, rather than to just suppress with force for the short-term, increasing anger and tension in the long-run.

As for Pakistan's response, as you said above, due to our debt to the Chinese, we may not be in a position to openly raise the issue. The Chinese are very a proud people, as they should be, and one of the primary reasons for our good relations with them has been our acceptance of them as a sovereign, self-determined and capable nation. We were one of the first countries to recognize them, and the only country that helped ease the tension between the US and China. They have certainly not forgotten this, and have put up time ang again with our two-timing politicians simply for the sake of good relations with Pakistan. If we publicly raise the Uighur issue, it may rustle some feathers and their confidence in our unshakeable support may waver. Therefore, on an international level, I definitely believe that the best response would be determined silence. However, I believe that it is Pakistan's responsibility as an Islamic Republic, and as a country that overtly supports freedom struggles in Chechnya, Palastine and Kashmir, to try to reconcile the Han Chinese-Uighur issue through back-channel diplomacy. In fact, our quiet but determined efforts to bring peace with Muslims within China may even boost our standing as a friend in their eyes. As for the East Turkistan movement, Pakistan must not interfere at all, even though it may be slightly hypocritical of us. We can't afford to support the East Turkistan movement, and we cannot afford to deny Muslim Turkic Uighurs the right for self-determinism. Therefore, if silence is broken on the East Turkistan movement issue, even if it is through back-channels, it will be a lose-lose situation.

To summarize, we must raise the issue of Uighur treatment privately with the Chinese, but we should leave the East Turkistan issue out.

I am guessing you might hear from Germany or France. They seem to somehow get away with speaking their minds on almost all issues around the world (Or don't care about consequences).

Yep, I've noticed that too. Sarkozy, in particular, has been the king of the clowns. I don't mind when countries make their points heard, but I do when they think they have the right to interfere in everybody's business.

 

[Omar1984]

I think we should side with China for 2 very important reasons:

1. Turkey is no where near Pakistan. We have good relations with Turkey and we will keep it that way but that doesn't mean we should follow everything Turkey says or does. Pakistan does share a border with China and China and Iran are the only two friendly neighbors we got. China is more friendly towards Pakistan than Iran is.

2. If you haven't noticed, Balochis are also killing Punjabis in Balochistan just because some Punjabis are working and living in Balochistan. If tomorrow, we see the exact same crisis in Balochistan as Xinjiang, what do you think Pakistan should do? Just keep quiet and let Balochis massacre Punjabis in their own country?



We should support China not China's separatist groups.
THE WORST THING PAKISTAN CAN DO IS SUPPORT UIGHURS. That will hurt Pakistan's relations with China and we can not afford to lose China as an ally.

 

[oct605032048]

There are 3 or 4 million migration workers from all over the country to beijing or shanghai to better jobs and higher incomes, the same thing in Xinjiang____which is 100 times larger than beijing.
People comes from neibouring poor provinces not because of state sponcer but to seek a better life. What is wrong with that?

 

[typewriter]

We should, however, put the Turkish criticism in context. When was the last time that we heard Turkey speaking about atrocities of the Bharati forces in Kashmir? I certainly haven't.

Turks, even the JamateIslami inspired govt., are ultra nationalists and always speak up for other turks, or those they perceive to be so. The Uighurs are Turks, and the area they inhabit today Xinjiang/East Turkestan forms part of the original homeland of the Turks, so their outburst must be seen through the paradigm of their national consciousness

They are no bleeding hearts.

I believe it is the same for Pakistan. I don't recollect them crying about the Rohignya people even though their a muslim ethnic minority suffering. All the crocodile tears about muslim "brotherhood" is generally b(i)ased only in favour of their community or land disputes with neighbouring nations.

 

[typewriter]

This thread and the responses by the Pakistanis has proved that when push comes to shove, they, or any muslim dominated country (a few exceptions apart) wouldn't lift a finger to so much as even criticize such atrocities, against fellow muslims. This is one reason why the Islamic voice hardly has credibility on the world stage.

 

[Gabbar]

GarbageGabbar, which part of the above content is illogical to you?

I will be glad to enlighten you and elevate you from Garbage status to Gibberish.

You dont have the ability to enlighten anybody. If you didn't get it by reading your own post by now, you will never get it.