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CTC Sentinel July 2009 - Attacks on Pak Nuclear Sites?

I disagree.

I exposed the nature of some of the nuclear work DONE and still potentially at play in Wah.
Yes, but as I pointed out, this is akin to arguing that since nuclear work is done in Pakistan, any attack in Pakistan is therefore an attack on Pakistan's nuclear weapons complex.

I think it has been clearly pointed out that Wah is a massive complex, and to suggest that a suicide bomber detonating himself at one set of gates at the complex when workers were leaving (ostensibly to maximize casualties), is somehow an attack on whatever aspect of the nuclear program occurs in some small part of the complex, is just a poor argument, poor journalism and fear mongering.

The methodology of the attack itself, a lone suicide bomber detonating at the gates at shift change (ostensibly to maximize casualties) is itself indicative of the fact that the tactics were rudimentary and without any sort of specific strategic goal in mind other than large numbers of casualties.

Now, had this attack been along the lines of the one carried out in Peshawar http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/28138-terrorists-target-peshawar-corp-commander.html, where the target was apparently the Corp commander, and the attack was multi-staged in order to increase the chances of getting at the target, Gregory's argument might be understandable - but that was not the case in this attack.

In addition, investigators in the KRL bus attack have suggested that the bus was a target of opportunity (the bomber looking for a government vehicle to attack), rather than a predetermined attack on KRL.

None of Mr. Gregory's other mentioned locations have been challenged so to suggest "yellow journalism" is a bit over-the-top, given his status as an academician and current responsibilities.

On the issues he has been called out on, it is clear that he has taken liberties with the facts, as pointed out already. He has not offered conclusive justification for the positions he has taken.
Malik is clear in his contention. 75%. By itself, that exceeds the Punjabi proportion of the population.
Is he basing that on any tangible evidence or 'perceptions'?

Even 'credible and informed authors' need to base their assertions on some semblance of evidence and provide some justification - I offered a source stating that the proportion of Punjabis in the Army was down to 57% in 2007. What exactly are Gregory and Malik basing their assertions on?

It is not enough to just claim 'authority' and bandy about figures conjured out of 'perceptions' and/or thin air to support ones argument. I am interested in seeing what they, and you, use as support for the argument that the Punjabis are disproportionately represented in the Army and SFC.

More importantly (and still unaddressed) is whether policy within your PRP screens bias towards pashtu ethnicity and, if so, why.
I think first you have to establish beyond doubt that the PRP does screen bias - conjecture by authors does not count. Only once that is established can the questions of 'why', 'how much' and 'what impact' be answered.

Gregory's rationales here are plausible WRT to a pashtu bias within your PRP.

Gregory's rationale is speculation in the absence of tangible evidence supporting his rationale.

To date, nobody (including you) have provided any link beside some maps of Wah until Asad's and S90's most recent posts.
Some of Gregory's arguments have been taken apart quite extensively - I have not seen the justification behind his contention that the bombing at Wah was specifically directed at whatever aspect of the nuclear program is carried out there. No evidence supporting his contention on disproportionate Punjabi domination. No evidence supporting an anti-Pashtun bias in the PRP.
"...defending Gregory's arguments..." is hardly the case. I've simply affirmed the viability of his contentions. The absence of a profound argument against his assertions still exists in my mind. I've strongly suggested approaching the source.
It is also viable to suggest that the US establishment is inherently racist, and the continuing suffering of Blacks in the US (lagging in almost all socio-economic indicators) is part of a secret policy in the US establishment to suppress blacks.

Without evidence that contention is just as much baloney as Gregory's.
I see much self-righteous indignation and posturing here but, generally, an absence of informed dissent and supporting evidence aimed at elevating the content of the discussion.
Sorry - but enough holes have been poked in Gregory's arguments. Since he made the original assertions, it is his (and yours if you so strongly feel about defending them) prerogative to provide justification for them.

It is not our prerogative to prove a negative.
I've even been told that Buner is MUCH further away from Islamabad than sixty miles by a Pakistani. Should I believe him?
As the crow flies or per navigable roads/terrain?
You'll understand if I defer doing so in this case, I hope.
You can defer, but Gregory's assertions still require justification. As of now they are poor speculation, poor journalism and fear mongering - not a surprise since right now any sort of dooms day scenario related to Pakistani nukes sells like hot cakes in the West.
Post all you wish on this topic but I'll be done here until either Gregory is approached or those with verifiable expertise on this matter choose to step forward. The concern is real in the eyes of many and there has been much money and effort spent by others to assure that your arsenal is safe.

Approaching Gregory is your prerogative, not mine and not Mian Asad's. Gregory's arguments have had sufficient holes poked into them. Please contact him to find out how he justifies them and refutes the criticism directed at him.

And you are right about the money - as I pointed out above, it is big business in the West right now to deal in fear mongering related to Pakistan's nuclear program.

Just because a lot of money is spent does not mean that the output of that expense is accurate, nor does it indicate that accuracy is even a goal.
As in all other matters securing your nuclear arsenal is a work in progress that must account for a variety of changing circumstances, to include the advance of islamo-fascism within your society.

Certainly an evolving situation requires continuous analysis, but at the same time one has to offer some substantiation and evidence supporting ones contentions - I see that substantiation woefully lacking in aspects of Gregory's argument that have been criticized here.
If that bothers you, I suggest that you ignore these articles as they periodically arise. This won't be the last.
I am more than happy to debunk what passes for pseudo journalism in the West nowadays, so ignoring such articles is not really an option. And this is not the first piece of speculative rubbish out of the West either.

Please, do try and contact Mr. Gregory to see how he justifies the arguments that have been criticized here. As of now, what passes as informed analysis in your circles is a very poor reflection on how 'informed' your decision making is. Or perhaps that is the precisely the point, to create a deeply flawed narrative to advance particular interests and goals.

Look forward to reading Mr. Gregory's justifications, if he has any.
 
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This Gregory article reads like it was done for some college assignment by how liberally he has taken things out of context. I'm still laughing at how the activities of the Wah group mean that any attack in Wah is an attack on Pakistan's nukes. They don't even know what the Wah group does, let alone it's location. Next he'll say that any attack in Dera Ghazi Khan is an attack on Pakistan's nukes, since there is a uranium mine there.

Anyway, you can take a horse to water, but....you know the rest.
 
In other breaking news, Western analysts have concluded that the KANUPP reactor has been attacked, as a terrorist incident happened in the past in Karachi. :D
 
U.S. Official: Pakistan Nuclear Facilities Attacked Three Times by Terrorists - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com

U.S. Official: Pakistan Nuclear Facilities Attacked Three Times by Terrorists


Tuesday, August 11, 2009


Pakistan's nuclear facilities have been attacked three times by home-grown extremists (beautifully described by Fox News how unbiased:smitten:) over the past two years, a senior U.S. official has confirmed to FOX News.

Three separate facilities in Pakistan — each of which deals in some part with nuclear activity — have been targeted by extremists, the official said, while insisting that there is "no waning confidence regarding the safety of the Pakistani nuclear program."

The official confirmed a report in West Point's Combating Terrorism Center Sentinel describing an attack on a nuclear missile storage facility at Sargodha on Nov. 1, 2007, and a homicide bombing at the nuclear airbase at Kamra on Dec. 10, 2007.

The report also notes a much larger raid by the Pakistani Taliban on Aug. 20, 2008, when homicide bombers blew up several entry points to an armament complex at the country's main nuclear facility, the Wah Cantonment Ordnance Complex. (i am lovin it!)

A Pakistani official told FOX News the report was "out of context" but stopped well short of saying the attacks did not occur. (i never knew news channels are also paid for being sarcastic-till now i have been thinking that it was only me:devil:)



-----

i never knew that:

There is a nuclear missile storage facility at Sargodha,

Kamra is a nuclear base, and

We make our Nukes at Wah Cantonment Ordnance Complex.

Thanks for the Lat and Longs Fox News!!


So much for the fringing accuracy and credibility!!

Till now i have been thinking that only our media is a moron, but it's comforting to know that there are others to compete!!
 
after all foxNews tells us where to store our nuclear assets ;)
 
Now here a bunch of News channels to add to the list.
Terrorists 'have attacked Pakistan nuclear sites three times' - Times Online
Pakistan's nuclear bases targeted by al-Qaeda - Telegraph
Jihadis Have Attacked Pakistans Nuclear Facilities 3 Times : Homeland Security News

and the original source is:
In a paper for the respected anti-terrorism journal of America's West Point Military Academy, Professor Shaun Gregory, director of the Pakistan Security Research Unit at Bradford University, detailed three attacks since November 2007 and raised the spectre of more incidents in the future.
 
Now here a bunch of News channels to add to the list.
Terrorists 'have attacked Pakistan nuclear sites three times' - Times Online
Pakistan's nuclear bases targeted by al-Qaeda - Telegraph
Jihadis Have Attacked Pakistans Nuclear Facilities 3 Times : Homeland Security News

and the original source is:
In a paper for the respected anti-terrorism journal of America's West Point Military Academy, Professor Shaun Gregory, director of the Pakistan Security Research Unit at Bradford University, detailed three attacks since November 2007 and raised the spectre of more incidents in the future.
Did you read the news quoted by me carefully, sir?

The emphasis was on the claims made by FOX NEWS!! See the emboldened text below. i am not concerned about what others are saying at the moment. i have been referring to the 'news' that have been sought by the FN itself as it claims that the certain things have been 'confirmed' to them 'personally':

Pakistan's nuclear facilities have been attacked three times by home-grown extremists over the past two years, a senior U.S. official has confirmed to FOX News.

A Pakistani official told FOX News the report was "out of context" but stopped well short of saying the attacks did not occur.
 
What about "Wah Cantonment Ordnance Complex" ? is that incorrect?
 
What about it?

Pakistan: 100 die in Taliban suicide bombings

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- The Taliban claimed responsibility for dual suicide bombings at a Pakistani military arms factory on Thursday that police say killed 100 people and wounded 80 others.
Police and authorities investigate the scene of the arms factory blast in Wah, near Rawalpindi.

Police and authorities investigate the scene of the arms factory blast in Wah, near Rawalpindi.

The spokesman for Pakistan's Taliban, Maulvi Omar, said his group, Tehrik-e-Taliban, was responsible for Thursday's attacks.

Two suicide bombers blew themselves up near the gates of the military arms factory in Wah, near Rawalpindi, where Pakistan's military is based. The attack took place during a shift change at one of several factories that employ several thousand people.

Pakistan: 100 die in Taliban suicide bombings - CNN.com
 
And this:.....

AAJ TV : Pakistan Ki Awaz

Pentagon comfortable with Pakistani nuclear safety measures
Wednesday, 12 Aug, 2009 2:46 am


WASHINGTON : The Pentagon on Tuesday reaffirmed its confidence in the safety of Pakistan's nuclear assets with a spokesman saying he was not aware of any Taliban attacks on the South Asian country's nuclear installations, claimed in an Indian media earlier in the day.

Press Secretary Geoff Morrell said he does not know about the reported Taliban attacks against Pakistani facilities to be actual.

"I can just repeat what you have heard time and time again from Chairman (Joint Chiefs Staff) Mullen and Secretary (of Defence) Gates that they are comfortable with the security measures that the Pakistani government, the Pakistani military have in place to ensure that their nuclear arsenal is safeguarded," he stated.

Morrell said since he has not heard of any such attack, he is not in a position to talk about it in particular.

The Press Secretary was asked to comment on claims made in a Times of India report that extremists tried to attack Pakistani nuclear facilities on three occasions in recent years.

When pressed further on the issue, Morrell responded "I don't know them to be actual attacks. It is the first (time) I have heard (of this) so I am clearly not in a position to tell you whether we were aware or were not aware I don't know anything what you are asking about."

"What I can tell you generically how we feel about the safeguards the Pakistani military has put in place to make sure that their arsenal is protected."


Copyright APP (Associated Press of Pakistan), 2009

-----

So it was the indian supermen who lit the fire, but still FN you are morons!! :wave:
 
Pakistan: 100 die in Taliban suicide bombings

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- The Taliban claimed responsibility for dual suicide bombings at a Pakistani military arms factory on Thursday that police say killed 100 people and wounded 80 others.
Police and authorities investigate the scene of the arms factory blast in Wah, near Rawalpindi.

Police and authorities investigate the scene of the arms factory blast in Wah, near Rawalpindi.

The spokesman for Pakistan's Taliban, Maulvi Omar, said his group, Tehrik-e-Taliban, was responsible for Thursday's attacks.

Two suicide bombers blew themselves up near the gates of the military arms factory in Wah, near Rawalpindi, where Pakistan's military is based. The attack took place during a shift change at one of several factories that employ several thousand people.

Pakistan: 100 die in Taliban suicide bombings - CNN.com

Now i am sure you are not in your senses!


Sir, all the attacks claimed in the report are absoutely correct execpt that WE DONT KEEP OUR NUKES WHERE THE REPORT CLAIMS THAT WE DO!!! Savvy??

That's what is making me laugh and frown.

Did at any instance i or other said that that the attacks didnt take place? It is on record and and yes they did happened and killed many poor souls! BUT we dont built our Nukes in an Ordinance Factory nor do we keep them anywhere else as claimed in the report (though they may be laying in my backyard, gotta chaek if they are still there, these terrorists are so naughty!!)

So what's the fuss about actually?

Need coffee?
 
And this:.....

AAJ TV : Pakistan Ki Awaz

Pentagon comfortable with Pakistani nuclear safety measures
Wednesday, 12 Aug, 2009 2:46 am


WASHINGTON : The Pentagon on Tuesday reaffirmed its confidence in the safety of Pakistan's nuclear assets with a spokesman saying he was not aware of any Taliban attacks on the South Asian country's nuclear installations, claimed in an Indian media earlier in the day.

So it was the indian supermen who lit the fire, but still FN you are morons!! :wave:

aajtv.com,Wow a competitor to your earlier list. Please read my earlier post it was not created by Indian media.
 
aajtv.com,Wow a competitor to your earlier list. Please read my earlier post it was not created by Indian media.

You really are out of your mind!!

If you had a little brain you should have seen the tag: "Copyright APP (Associated Press of Pakistan), 2009" , which i DELIBERATELY copied from the Aaj TV site, just because i knew people like you would always cry over the source!! though APP still is a Pakistani news agency but what's the point exactly? Is it that you dont believe the US spokesman or the news source? What exactly bothers you in the news? Let's see if you have the cheeks to falsify the US spokesman.

As for the the indian media thingy, sir please read my earlier post where the US spokesman says, " on claims made in a Times of India "!

Are you doing it deliberately or does this battiness just happens
 

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