CTC Sentinel July 2009 - Attacks on Pak Nuclear Sites?

[arslan_treen]

sir please get this is you mind that wah is not a storage facility of any thing not even ammunition is stored there in big quantity not many people know that the ammunition is actualy stored in POF hawalian around 50 kilc away from Wah connected by a rail link way in the mountians of hazara its a small town between haripur and abbottabad and the ammo store tunnels are way deep in the mountians !! ,so any one who argues that wah is a storage facility and it was a assembly line for nukes is actually using blogs written by people with nothing but air in there heads same goes for people who wont believe on what the people who have worked and lived there all there lives and know the ground realities but will just go on banging the wall for the sake of winning the argument .

 

[S-2]

Why don't you write Mr. Gregory and ask him what his thoughts are about the Wah facility and it's importance to Pakistan's nuclear program?

I'm sure that he must have a reason but, if not, then he, you, and I will all benefit.

Please don't pass out state secrets for my sake in the process of doing so.

"...same goes for people who wont believe on what the people who have worked and lived there all there lives and know the ground realities but will just go on banging the wall for the sake of winning the argument ."

This is lazy, arrogant, and unproductive. Use your time better than putting me down and holding yourself high. Assemble your resources as I know none of you and highly doubt that you'd be employed in a capacity to comment with authority on your nuclear weapons program.

Unless you're inside...you're outside and thus speculative and second-hand.

I don't know what goes on inside Wah nor it's overall size. However it sounds massive and has a long history associated with the development of your nuclear weapons. Perhaps SOMETHING is still done there in that respect?

Maybe not. It matters little compared to the larger concerns. Those "larger concerns" will remain such to the rest of us, particularly as you wage this present war. Should you retain your "good" taliban friends the rest of us would have to believe that the risk of these weapons, technology, or knowledge being transferred into deadly hands remains disturbingly high.

Anyway, as always, I'll await to read your responses.

 

[Zulfiqar]

Your "local" expertise has already been successfully punctured.

Please explain, how

Mian Asad's assertions about Wah bore the stark signs of dissemblance. "...the gate attacked..." was to the outer perimeter of a facility that's long been associated with the birthplace of your nuclear arsenal. What goes on somewhere inside there now is classified, generally, and certainly so WRT any nuclear-related research and/or development.

The gate is the entry point for wah explosive factory, POF makes hundreds of products and how can he prove that the gate belonged to some nuclear weapons assembly factory.

He generalized the information and said that nuclear weapons factory was attacked when the fact is that only a gate that leads to many factories (munitions,explosives was attacked).

Wah does have wah group but if you see the map then you will observe that how big the facility is. It can be any where.I never said that Wah does not have strategic facilities.


Here is a picture of the site of the blast:

DSC_0284 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!


I for now will not reply until military professionals like xeric,fatman,murad k and others think that its ok to reply on this topic.Because it will result in unnecessary outflow of information just to prove one point.

 

[S-2]

"Because it will result in unnecessary outflow of information just to prove one point."

I'm not asking you to do so. I'm asking one or more of you to challenge Mr. Gregory with his assertions and determine the basis for such.

To date, that's not been done. He's awake now and well into his day. Try doing so.

Thanks.

 

[Zulfiqar]

As i said that until military professionals like xeric,fatman,murad k and others think that its ok to reply then i will do so.

 

[S-2]

Ah, you mean Pakistani military professionals, don't you? You don't need their permission to call Mr. Gregory to question on his thoughts. You're not asserting such in an article. He is.

Asking reveals nothing. Further, at this point your concerns about OPSEC are a tad belated anyway. My controller has already culled all he can on this public forum.

There's little else to be mined.

It's Gregory I want. So should you, I'd think.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Asad Bhai, iss banday ki sui isi baat per atki howi hai, dont waste ur time, better use ur energy somewhere else.

 

[Zulfiqar]

Well i do have concerns because i still live in a military cantt, asking questions is ok but it will lead from one thing to another(its not like he won't ask questions from me) and i don't feel comfortable unless mr. xeric and other military professionals think that its ok to do so.

 

[S-2]

Your choice, sir.

That probably concludes matters then.

Thanks.

 

[Zulfiqar]

That probably concludes matters then.

For now, yes it does.

For more general information use these links:

http://pakdef.info/nuclear&missile/index.html


Read Volume 1 and Volume 2.

http://pakdef.info/ereporter/index.html

 

[s90]

How they know this where Pakistan nuke facilities are?just plain speculation.

CIA: US does not know location of all Pakistan's nuclear weapons - Telegraph

 

[Zulfiqar]

How they know this where Pakistan nuke facilities are?just plain speculation.

Intelligence sharing between different agencies. Particular structures are tell tale of such facilities but every thing does not have a sign and some remain hidden from the prying eyes of the people.

IIRC one incident of spying on kahuta was revealed in the book Profiles of Intelligence by Brig. Syed A. Tirmazi.


The book mentions that Foreign intelligence agents were successful in placing an electronic sensing device shaped like a boulder with fibers covering close to the perimeter fence of Kahuta nuclear site.

How long the device continued to work was unknown. But a young shepherd, who was grazing his sheep and goats in the area, while passing by this boulder gave it a hard knock with the back of his axe. A chunk of the disguised boulder fell and inside he found wiring. It was reported and the device was removed.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

"Because it will result in unnecessary outflow of information just to prove one point."

I'm not asking you to do so. I'm asking one or more of you to challenge Mr. Gregory with his assertions and determine the basis for such.

To date, that's not been done. He's awake now and well into his day. Try doing so.

Thanks.

His assertions have successfully been challenged. That was done in Mian Asad's first post.

You have been dissembling and trying to spin circles to somehow validate Gregory's arguments.

Its like suggesting that just because an attack took place somewhere in Pakistan, it was an attack on Pakistan's nuclear facilities, since Pakistan has nuclear facilities.

Gregory has quite clearly taken extensive liberties with the facts and generalized, merely through the presence of the 'Wah group', and argued that an attack in Wah, due to the presence of the 'Wah group' in a massive facility, indicates an attack on Pakistan's nuclear assets.

This is clearly fear mongering and yellow journalism.

Second, Gregory has offered no suppport for his Punjabi domination canard (funny how the majority arguing with you on this thread are Pasthun), other than building upon the 'perceptions' (something that Malik acknowledges as well).

Moreover, this article from a couple of years ago indicates that non-Punjabi recruitment in the Army is being boosted.

A planned effort is being made to revise the composition of the Pakistan Army by reducing the dominance of Punjab to a considerable level over a period of four years.

In 2001, the Punjabis constituted over 71 per cent of the army. The numerical strength was reduced in later years and has been brought down to just over 57 per cent this year. A further three per cent decrease in recruitment from that province is on the cards by 2011.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-forces/7289-changing-demographics-standards-army.html

Secondly, this is not about shooting the messenger, but if you insist upon defending Gregory's arguments, despite the arguments being clearly shown to be flawed, then you open yourself up to criticism.

All of us post articles here to start debates, but it is rare that someone defends the arguments made in the article by saying that the 'respondents need to contact the author'.

You posted the article, some his arguments were shown to be flawed and/or highly exaggerated fear mongering, now you can either defend them (which you have not) or contact the author himself to clarify.

Don't be rude and tell the respondents to 'contact the author if they have guts'. Would have expected better from a senior member.

 

[S-2]

I disagree.

I exposed the nature of some of the nuclear work DONE and still potentially at play in Wah. This was rejected out of hand by Asad in his initial post only to be admitted later. Further, nobody here seems to know what really goes on behind those closed doors-much less at the other locations mentioned by Gregory.

None of Mr. Gregory's other mentioned locations have been challenged so to suggest "yellow journalism" is a bit over-the-top, given his status as an academician and current responsibilities.

Malik is clear in his contention. 75%. By itself, that exceeds the Punjabi proportion of the population. It's nice that there's an effort afoot to redress this disproportionality. More importantly (and still unaddressed) is whether policy within your PRP screens bias towards pashtu ethnicity and, if so, why.

Gregory's rationales here are plausible WRT to a pashtu bias within your PRP.

To date, nobody (including you) have provided any link beside some maps of Wah until Asad's and S90's most recent posts.

"...defending Gregory's arguments..." is hardly the case. I've simply affirmed the viability of his contentions. The absence of a profound argument against his assertions still exists in my mind. I've strongly suggested approaching the source.

Please do so.

I see much self-righteous indignation and posturing here but, generally, an absence of informed dissent and supporting evidence aimed at elevating the content of the discussion.

I've even been told that Buner is MUCH further away from Islamabad than sixty miles by a Pakistani. Should I believe him?

"Taliban militants have taken over the northwestern Pakistan district of Buner, only 60 miles from the capital of Islamabad, witnesses said."

Taliban Seize Pakistan's Buner District-UPI.com April 22, 2009

You'll understand if I defer doing so in this case, I hope.

Post all you wish on this topic but I'll be done here until either Gregory is approached or those with verifiable expertise on this matter choose to step forward. The concern is real in the eyes of many and there has been much money and effort spent by others to assure that your arsenal is safe.

As in all other matters securing your nuclear arsenal is a work in progress that must account for a variety of changing circumstances, to include the advance of islamo-fascism within your society.

That particular issue has hardly been put to rest. Until it is, expect to read much more on this topic. If that bothers you, I suggest that you ignore these articles as they periodically arise. This won't be the last. That much is clear.

Thanks, A.M.

 

[Zulfiqar]

I exposed the nature of some of the nuclear work DONE and still potentially at play in Wah. This was rejected out of hand by Asad in his initial post only to be admitted later.

Oh please, i never rejected it.I did not mention it because the site of the attack was a gate(to the POF mega facilities) not some nuke assembly plant as described in his articles.



I don't believe gregory on the way people are how the people are recruited unless he was himself in the HR department. He has no proof of it and he is just speculating. We don't have to prove anything.Its him who has to prove what he said by posting relevant hiring/firing statistics.