Crucial Indian Cruise Missile Tests In A Year.

[satishkumarcsc]

Already covered. The manoeuvers will be 'flattened out' precisely because of the high speed and forward momentum.
Common sense: what is easier to turn? a car travelling at 10mph or at 100mph?

You are forgetting the air-speed on the control surfaces logic used in the missile. Remember..there is a lot of friction on ground compared to air.

As you say that the missile can turn at a slower speed..it must have an energy...the missile has continuous acceleration till it reaches the coast phase. The Bhramos detected at the maximum range and when the missile is launched which will give the missile to maneuver itself in the interception path. If the missile turns before it reaches its peak acceleration it will enter its stall speed and will be impossible for the missile to recover back to it's trajectory.

This is where the "S" maneuver and the "dive" maneuver will be playing an important role. The Ship also has helicopters which have the Sea eagle missile and the Dhruv which are capable of carrying atleast one Sea Eagle missile.

There are a lot of things that must be taken into consideration as the Uran and the Klub are also in our arsenal. There is a huge number of missiles and you cant tell that you are actually facing the Bhramos as Klub is also a similar missile.

 

[Punjabbi Munda]

Sigh. We've been through this before...

- BrahMos gets launched. Let's say the enemy detects it and figures out the general area where it's headed. Remember, the IR signature is generated from body friction so it's going out in all directions. And the BrahMos cannot fly as low as a subsonic missile.

- Interceptors are launched from the estimated target location. They don't need to catch up to BrahMos because it is coming at them.

- When the BrahMos comes within range of the interceptor's IR sensor, all it has to do is to manoeuver itself in the BrahMos' flight path. The interceptor is passive so the BrahMos doesn't know it is being tracked and, in any case, it can only do so much manoeuvering due to it's large forward momentum.

Bottom line, once the BrahMos is detected, it is easy to track and intercept. It's only hope is that it is detected too late by the enemy.

Yeh lo jee! ek aur scientist.

 

[Developereo]

I think there is a miscommunication here.
I am not saying that BrahMos is definitely easier to intercept than a subsonic cruise missile.
In some respects, the physics works against BrahMos; in other respects it has an advantage.
There are two approaches to missiles: the smart, sneaky way (terrain-hugging subsonic), or the brute force way (hypersonic kinetic kill).

My only point is that it is not the invincible game changer it is claimed to be.
With respect to Pakistan, yes for now -- until we get or co-develop an interceptor with China.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

I think there is a miscommunication here.
I am not saying that BrahMos is definitely easier to intercept than a subsonic cruise missile.
In some respects, the physics works against BrahMos; in other respects it has an advantage.

My only point is that it is not the invincible game changer it is claimed to be.
With respect to Pakistan, yes for now -- until we get or co-develop an interceptor with China.

Well by the time you develop one with China starting today ( and how are you so sure that the Chinese will allow you into their programme?) it will take atleast 3 years to finish it and install it on your ships after testing. The HQ9 on the Chinese ships are too big to accommodate in the F22p. By that time there will be a lot of changes in the Bhramos and you might even have to face a hypersonic version of it.

I know Bhramos can be intercepted...but why go for something like a Chinese interceptor missile instead of going for ESSM or the SM-2? It is a far more cheaper and easier option with proven systems.

 

[Developereo]

You are forgetting the air-speed on the control surfaces logic used in the missile. Remember..there is a lot of friction on ground compared to air.

The comparison is simpler in air because the additional complication of ground friction is not present. It is a pure momentum difference.

As you say that the missile can turn at a slower speed..it must have an energy...the missile has continuous acceleration till it reaches the coast phase. The Bhramos detected at the maximum range and when the missile is launched which will give the missile to maneuver itself in the interception path. If the missile turns before it reaches its peak acceleration it will enter its stall speed and will be impossible for the missile to recover back to it's trajectory.

This is where the "S" maneuver and the "dive" maneuver will be playing an important role.

I don't understand this part. Heat-seeker missiles change trajectory all the time to keep up with their target.
And the BrahMos can only do pre-programmed moves -- it is not reacting to the heat seekers because it doesn't even know about them.

There are a lot of things that must be taken into consideration as the Uran and the Klub are also in our arsenal. There is a huge number of missiles and you cant tell that you are actually facing the Bhramos as Klub is also a similar missile.

The assumption here is that the incoming BrahMos is identified as such and the appropriate interceptors are launched. But you are right that, in a real world scenario, these details will also need to be worked out.

I know Bhramos can be intercepted...but why go for something like a Chinese interceptor missile instead of going for ESSM or the SM-2? It is a far more cheaper and easier option with proven systems.

Even if the Americans agree to sell us ESSM, there is always the threat of sanctions and strings attached.
Joint development, or procurement, from China is a good alternative.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

The comparison is simpler in air because the additional complication of ground friction is not present. It is a pure momentum difference.

The friction on the ground is the major factor that gives you the small turn radius...without friction it is difficult to turn without the loss of energy and altitude..it is easier to turn on ground than on water, it is easier to turn on water compared to air.

I don't understand this part. Heat-seeker missiles change trajectory all the time to keep up with their target.
And the BrahMos can only do pre-programmed moves -- it is not reacting to the heat seekers because it doesn't even know about them.

Heat seekers change their trajectory only after they have reached their peak of acceleration and there is sustained boost so the range is reduced. In SAM systems the range is drastically reduced...so there is a coast phase where the missile maneuvers and positions itself to intercept. Yes the bhramos has pre-programmed moves but we dont know at what time and place those moves are initiated..

The assumption here is that the incoming BrahMos is identified as such and the appropriate interceptors are launched. But you are right that, in a real world scenario, these details will also need to be worked out.

Appropriate interceptors? Interception is done by a system..and the interceptor is just a part of the system.

Even if the Americans agree to sell us ESSM, there is always the threat of sanctions and strings attached.
Joint development, or procurement, from China is a good alternative.

Well a JV with China will need to have a green signal from the Chinese side and it is the job of the diplomacy...and what strings are attached to ESSM..strings are attached only to offensive systems...these are defensive systems...so I dont think any strings will be attached to it.

 

[SpArK]

PM Visits BrahMos Trivandrum​

Chindits: PM Visits BrahMos Thiruvananthapuram

 

[Developereo]

The friction on the ground is the major factor that gives you the small turn radius...without friction it is difficult to turn without the loss of energy and altitude..it is easier to turn on ground than on water, it is easier to turn on water compared to air.

Rockets turn just fine in vacuum without friction. Missiles would turn the same way, with side jets, presumably.

Heat seekers change their trajectory only after they have reached their peak of acceleration and there is sustained boost so the range is reduced. In SAM systems the range is drastically reduced...so there is a coast phase where the missile maneuvers and positions itself to intercept. Yes the bhramos has pre-programmed moves but we dont know at what time and place those moves are initiated..

The BrahMos moves will have a flattened curve simply because the forward momentum is so huge. It won't be making any sharp moves.
I don't think a heat seeker agile enough to keep up with an aircraft would have any trouble adjusting its intercept vector to BrahMos.
Again, this is all theoretical.

Appropriate interceptors? Interception is done by a system..and the interceptor is just a part of the system.

I meant appropriate interceptor missile. In this case, it would be a passive heat seeker, rather than an active radar sensing missile.

Well a JV with China will need to have a green signal from the Chinese side and it is the job of the diplomacy...and what strings are attached to ESSM..strings are attached only to offensive systems...these are defensive systems...so I dont think any strings will be attached to it.

I doubt the US would sell ESSM to Pakistan anyway.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Rockets turn just fine in vacuum without friction. Missiles would turn the same way, with side jets, presumably.

It is done by using course correction rocket boosters...just like Bhramos VLS. But what we are talking is about an interceptor missile..not a ballistic missile or an SLV.

The BrahMos moves will have a flattened curve simply because the forward momentum is so huge. It won't be making any sharp moves.
I don't think a heat seeker agile enough to keep up with an aircraft would have any trouble adjusting its intercept vector to BrahMos.
Again, this is all theoretical.

Still the seeker in the interceptor missile must guide the missile to the exact point of interception...and as bhramos has poor agility..so will the interceptor...remember the interceptors like the HQ 9 has a top speed of mach 4. But most of the interceptors are radar guided...i dont know why they prefer radar guided instead of an heat seeker...

I meant appropriate interceptor missile. In this case, it would be a passive heat seeker, rather than an active radar sensing missile.

Passive infrared guided missile cant be fired in salvos due to intervention of other heat sources in the vicinity.So Radar guided missiles are a much better choice and are used world wide. The CIWS with a DEW is a much better choice.

I doubt the US would sell ESSM to Pakistan anyway.

US will sell but can you buy?