Countries that have shown interest in BAFs' modernization program

[asad71]

You do realise what you have propsed is very unrealistic. Bangladesh military doesn't have any offensive doctrine-it's mostly suited towards defending and our current equipment shows so and future equipment is unlikely for such a task due to the fact India will always be ahead of us(We are just Purchasing 4.5 generation Figthers and they have Plans for 5th Generation figthers). The resources and financial assets needed to achieve this will mean we have to rival and beat India in both Military Tech and terms of GDP. The former is unlikely but possible in future(Like the 22nd century or late 21st) while the Latter won't be.

We also won't need to worry about a offensive from India. They are not stupid to do so,why? Because any offensive on us will be seen as either-An attack on Muslims(likely used by Muslim countries),An attack on a weaker country and bullying. The United states is looking for more influence and presence in the region, Attack Bangladesh would give them a reason to interfere. China itself won't be too happy on an attack. Both India and Bangladesh know attacking each other would destroy the atackers economy. Also As far as just defending our airspace and shipping lanes. Our air space will be secured by 2021(latest 2030) due to an five tier anti air defence system in the country. India trying to attack Bangladesh's shipping lanes will be sucidal,why? Because 5 trillion dollars of US assets(as of 2012 and likely to increase much more by 2050) go through them so if they try,India will get it's rear handed to them by the Americans.

A much more likely scenario is to achieve Air supremacy in Myanmar's Air space(A more suitable Threat). Which is not only likely but would likely be possible after 2030-Latest or earliest 2021.

1. The question is of reality. The five-tiers AD system plus the envelopment of the entire land surface with all sorts of AD weapons in a Swarming Tactics appear full proof. But in war nothing has proved to be fool proof. Any AD will be useless unless we are able to hurt the enemy. Passive defense at the end is no defense.

2. Acquiring few squadrons of the best multirole aircraft along with the back-up will cost money, but not that much that we cannot arrange. If there is a will some modality will be discovered. We are not that poor anymore. Just harnessing even a fraction of graft will release funds for fighters, submarines, more frigates and destroyers.

3. I absolutely reject the view that India will not invade for the reasons provided. World history tells us that invasions took place for various reasons and for no credible reason at all. I am quite sanguine that BD is India's next target in her core national goal of creating Akhand Bharat. The so called Northern Strike Corps and the much advertised build-up to face China is really to prepare for an invasion into BD.

 

[Sliver]

Israel needs the superior Air Force and Air superiority - its is surrounded by many different players.

BD has fewer neighbors and diplomacy works best in your neighborhood

Unlike Israel which faces constant survival threats directly, BD faces almost no such threats.

More or less BD is largely peaceful with neighbors. The smart thing would be to utilize this "peace" time to get stronger economically. Once that happens, everything will follow.

 

[british_bengali]

1. The question is of reality. The five-tiers AD system plus the envelopment of the entire land surface with all sorts of AD weapons in a Swarming Tactics appear full proof. But in war nothing has proved to be fool proof. Any AD will be useless unless we are able to hurt the enemy. Passive defense at the end is no defense.

2. Acquiring few squadrons of the best multirole aircraft along with the back-up will cost money, but not that much that we cannot arrange. If there is a will some modality will be discovered. We are not that poor anymore. Just harnessing even a fraction of graft will release funds for fighters, submarines, more frigates and destroyers.

3. I absolutely reject the view that India will not invade for the reasons provided. World history tells us that invasions took place for various reasons and for no credible reason at all. I am quite sanguine that BD is India's next target in her core national goal of creating Akhand Bharat. The so called Northern Strike Corps and the much advertised build-up to face China is really to prepare for an invasion into BD.

1. You are right nothing is full proof. But tell me how do you propse to hurt the "enemy"...with our super duper F-7s...India has missiles that can reach Beijing, unless we buy figthers and i mean stuff like J-20s and alot of them and a anti-ballistic missile defence,dogfights over Delhi will be no use if our own home ground isn't secure-Theres a difference between Air Denial and Air Supremacy. India has a massive air space and to control all that would require figthers and Missiles inventories that is similar to a country like Israels. Inflicting the most damage possible is more of an Iranian or North korean Tactic-It's not meant to win wars but just to economically drain the Country.

2. India's economy is roughly five times bigger thans our,their defence budget is in between 40-50 billion dollars while ours is roughly 1.6 billion dollars-See a big difference. War requires money and just going out there and buying a lot of expensive equipment would not only destroy our economy and in doing so will destroy our military funding. A good first hand destroyer will cost about a 500 million dollars,roughly one third of our Budget.

3.Wars in world history are normally prior the 21st century. India cannot just invade Bangladesh and claim it for there own... Name me one single war in the 21st century in which that has happened. Every war has had international intervention,diplomatically or military.Bangladesh has built a reputation world wide that it's peaceful and many countries would support that,India attacking them can never be justified-It's just pure stupidity on there part if they thought of it.

4.Look at Bangladesh's recent procurement...they are not suitable for defence against India but suitable for Myanmar and for UN Peacekeeping. Why??Because India is not considered a dangerous threat.

5. The smart thing to do is get our military up to a modern Standard enough to scare off myanmar and secure the Bay of Bengal then focus on economic and social development,Increasing our Domestic defence Industry and Gaining stronger Relations with a lot more Countries.

 

[PlanetSoldier]

Israel needs the superior Air Force and Air superiority - its is surrounded by many different players.

BD has fewer neighbors and diplomacy works best in your neighborhood

Unlike Israel which faces constant survival threats directly, BD faces almost no such threats.

More or less BD is largely peaceful with neighbors. The smart thing would be to utilize this "peace" time to get stronger economically. Once that happens, everything will follow.

Your comments reveal the fact that you are worried about so called israel where a population of 7 million has been made collecting people from around the world on an illegally occupied land.

But here in BD people living for thousand years now facing the question of its existence for one neighbor. 52/53 rivers have been dammed entering BD by this neighbor violating international law....upper riparian country can't control flow to lower riparian one. One Farakka has changed lives of at least 2 greater areas of BD, starting from agriculture, arsenic and most notably the human being. Yes human being, if you have time, study the changes of human being of North Bengal that had started with the impact of Farakka. Will diplomacy solve this issue? Will diplomacy save the lives (more than 1000 in last 10/12 years) that we lost on our border? Right, we've to remain peaceful digesting all the oppressions by our big neighbor because that's the only way for us.

 

[Bamboo Castle]

This is old news but something new to me. I did not know that many countries have expressed interest in Bangladesh's long term armed forces' modernization program such as USA, France, Italy, Turkey, Serbia, Czech Republic, Belarus( know about Belarus) and South Korea excluding our major suppliers Russia and China.



source: Minsk for ?military technical cooperation? with Dhaka

Some European, North American and Asian countries did show interest in the modernization of Bangladesh defense forces. This can be a good opportunity to market their products and will help and promote their products even more.

Some participants so far has been found are:

USA is on discussion about: 24-32 F-16 block 50/52, 4 C-130 with additional 20 engines, 24 T-6 Texan II as the replacement of PT-6 and T-37 tweet, Hi speed boats, radar systems to replace the age old existing few.

Russia is on discussion about 24-32 Mig-29SMT/M/M2 or Su-30MK, 24 YAK-130, 24 YAK-152, Helicopters, BTR-82A, Rocket and missile systems, Artillery systems, Rocket Artillery, Self-propelled artillery, Field artillery, Air Defence Systems, Air Defense Radars, Infantry Fighting Vehicles, Logistics and utility vehicles, Mines, Grenades launchers, Machine guns and Infantry weapons etc. This also includes the $1 billion deal signed recently.

 

[british_bengali]

F-16 Block 50/52...How well does it do against lets say the SU-30MK or Mig 29 SMT/M/M2.Personally i'd love to see western planes in BD but i thought they were ruled out due to the fact we have no Infrastrucutre for them while with russian birds,we have current infrastructure.

 

[Dillinger]

1. You are right nothing is full proof. But tell me how do you propse to hurt the "enemy"...with our super duper F-7s...India has missiles that can reach Beijing, unless we buy figthers and i mean stuff like J-20s and alot of them and a anti-ballistic missile defence,dogfights over Delhi will be no use if our own home ground isn't secure-Theres a difference between Air Denial and Air Supremacy. India has a massive air space and to control all that would require figthers and Missiles inventories that is similar to a country like Israels. Inflicting the most damage possible is more of an Iranian or North korean Tactic-It's not meant to win wars but just to economically drain the Country.

2. India's economy is roughly five times bigger thans our,their defence budget is in between 40-50 billion dollars while ours is roughly 1.6 billion dollars-See a big difference. War requires money and just going out there and buying a lot of expensive equipment would not only destroy our economy and in doing so will destroy our military funding. A good first hand destroyer will cost about a 500 million dollars,roughly one third of our Budget.

3.Wars in world history are normally prior the 21st century. India cannot just invade Bangladesh and claim it for there own... Name me one single war in the 21st century in which that has happened. Every war has had international intervention,diplomatically or military.Bangladesh has built a reputation world wide that it's peaceful and many countries would support that,India attacking them can never be justified-It's just pure stupidity on there part if they thought of it.

4.Look at Bangladesh's recent procurement...they are not suitable for defence against India but suitable for Myanmar and for UN Peacekeeping. Why??Because India is not considered a dangerous threat.

5. The smart thing to do is get our military up to a modern Standard enough to scare off myanmar and secure the Bay of Bengal then focus on economic and social development,Increasing our Domestic defence Industry and Gaining stronger Relations with a lot more Countries.

A few corrections:-

The Indian economy is nearly 15 times larger than the Bangladeshi economy in nominal GDP terms (115 billion $ as opposed to 1.9 trillion $).

India has in the past enforced blockades and can do so again, allowing international cargo to pass through the greater extent of the IOR while clamping down on SLOCs is something we are rather good at. Not to mention that international cargo passes through the southern waters of the BOB to further pass through the Malacca straits and has no transit lanes traversing the littoral waters of BD- which is the zone wherein the blockade is most likely to be placed. Considering that an effective albeit "partial" blockade can be placed quite effectively by debilitating the limited number of ports that BD has itself- by destroying harbor facilities and sinking ships in the harbor itself to clog it up thereby making it nigh impossible for any further ships to berth in said port's harbor.

While it is true that Bangladesh will neither be able to sustain itself in a conventional war with India nor inflict much damage, academically it is not impossible to create localized zones of aerial superiority for even a small defending force- at least for a short duration- specially with the application of a proper ADGE riding on the back of an integrated data sharing system along with a sufficient number of air crafts which can be vectored in to intercept inbounds. The issue though will always lie with the stark contrast in naval capabilities and the inability of the BN to enforce any sort of control even over the littoral zone in the event of a shooting war. The one consolation though lies with the land forces of BD, given the topography and the appreciable standards of training maintained by the war-fighters of the BA any ground excursion into BD despite achieving air supremacy shall be a costly venture to say the least. Also one must factor in that in India's case its ground forces are thoroughly preoccupied with other fronts and thus BD shall not have to face the full numerical brunt of the IA under any circumstance.

Beyond that BD's best bet shall always remain diplomacy, beneficial informal alliances and a non-aggressive stance on issues of national concern.

 

[BDforever]

A few corrections:-

The Indian economy is nearly 15 times larger than the Bangladeshi economy in nominal GDP terms (115 billion $ as opposed to 1.9 trillion $).

India has in the past enforced blockades and can do so again, allowing international cargo to pass through the greater extent of the IOR while clamping down on SLOCs is something we are rather good at. Not to mention that international cargo passes through the southern waters of the BOB to further pass through the Malacca straits and has no transit lanes traversing the littoral waters of BD- which is the zone wherein the blockade is most likely to be placed.

While it is true that Bangladesh will neither be able to sustain itself in a conventional war with India nor inflict much damage, academically it is not impossible to create localized zones of aerial superiority for even a small defending force- at least for a short duration- specially with the application of a proper ADGE riding on the back of an integrated data sharing system along with a sufficient number air crafts which can be vectored in to intercept inbounds. The issue though will always lie with the stark contrast in naval capabilities and the inability of the BN to enforce any sort of control even over the littoral zone in the event of a shooting war. The one consolation though lies with the land forces of BD, given the topography and the appreciable standards of training maintained by the war-fighters of the BA any ground excursion into BD despite achieving air supremacy shall be a costly venture to say the least. Also one must factor in that in India's case its ground forces are thoroughly preoccupied with other fronts and thus BD shall not have to face the full numerical brunt of the IA under any circumstance.

Beyond that BD's best bet shall always remain diplomacy, beneficial informal alliances and a non-aggressive stance on issues of national concern.

A few correction:-
1. BD economy is $122billion not $115.
2. BD does not have aggressive policy, but India is provoking to do so through proxy. currently BD armed forces does not have much teeth but things going to change after 10 years, within these years BD armed forces' capabilities will increase by 3 times. BD is increasing its capabilities. And lastly if BD starts siding Pak-china side, that will be more lost case for india than Bangladesh.

 

[Dillinger]

A few correction:-
1. BD economy is $122billion not $115.
2. BD does not have aggressive policy, but India is provoking to do so through proxy. currently BD armed forces does not have much teeth but things going to change after 10 years, within these years BD armed forces' capabilities will increase by 3 times. BD is increasing its capabilities. And lastly if BD starts siding Pak-china side, that will be more lost case for india than Bangladesh.

I had access to figures from 2011 I believe. It hardly changes the equation though.

Bangladesh already is in China's pocket and under de facto Chinese influence for all intents and purposes and ergo does not signify any "loss" for India. While BD's armed forces will modernizes they will always face an over-match wrt Indian armed forces since the latter is not stagnant either in terms of upgrading its capabilities.

 

[BDforever]

I had access to figures from 2011 I believe. It hardly changes the equation though.

Bangladesh already is in China's pocket and under de facto Chinese influence for all intents and purposes and ergo does not signify any "loss" for India. While BD's armed forces will modernizes they will always face an over-match wrt Indian armed forces since the latter is not stagnant either in terms of upgrading its capabilities.

bangladesh is not yet china's pocket, bangladesh still wants to be friend with india but india does not consider BD as friend, just want to make vessel state, on the other hand China was friend with all parties no matter who is in power. BD armed forces is defensive force, never will attack india as aggressive action, so it is a pretty good defensive force in a small country.

 

[Dillinger]

bangladesh is not yet china's pocket, bangladesh still wants to be friend with india but india does not consider BD as friend, just want to make vessel state, on the other hand China was friend with all parties no matter who is in power. BD armed forces is defensive force, never will attack india as aggressive action, so it is a pretty good defensive force in a small country.

It is a rather marvelous force given its fiscal constraints, there is no doubt about that.

As far as the subject of larger geopolitics is concerned, China does not share a border with BD and ergo the otherwise resultant issues do not exist between BD and China otherwise the Chinese state policy with regard to Vietnam and the Philippines should be indicative enough of the fact that interests supersede any "friendship" or any norms of good neighborly behavior.

 

[BDforever]

It is a rather marvelous force given its fiscal constraints, there is no doubt about that.

As far as the subject of larger geopolitics is concerned, China does not share a border with BD and ergo the otherwise resultant issues do not exist between BD and China otherwise the Chinese state policy with regard to Vietnam and the Philippines should be indicative enough of the fact that interests supersede any "friendship" or good neighborly behavior.

well it does not matter, only matter on interest. Bangladesh will never play international politics, its interest only within its boundary, so still picking on BD is not good choice by India. you need to keep in mind that having big army is not everything. You need strong economy to afford a war. India is not in a position to have a war with anyone as an aggressor.

 

[Dillinger]

well it does not matter, only matter on interest. Bangladesh will never play international politics, its interest only within its boundary, so still picking on BD is not good choice by India. you need to keep in mind that having big army is not everything. You need strong economy to afford a war. India is not in a position to have a war with anyone as an aggressor.

India has never fought a war as an aggressor so that's a moot point. Albeit we have fought successful wars even when on the precipice of economic collapse and suffering under famines so such issues have never been a worrying prospect for us.

 

[BDforever]

India has never fought a war as an aggressor so that's a moot point. Albeit we have fought successful wars even when on the precipice of economic collapse and suffering under famines so such issues have never been a worrying prospect for us.

1. india is now becoming aggressor.
2. war was not costly that time than now, you won against pak (not all) and of course not against china. even biggest economy USA does not involve directly in war now

 

[Dillinger]

1. india is now becoming aggressor.
2. war was not costly that time than now, you won against pak (not all) and of course not against china. even biggest economy USA does not involve directly in war now

I already told you, its a moot point. We don't engage in "Clausewitz-ilian" total wars and we have never fought as an aggressor nor shall we.