Countering Cold Start doctrine by PAF

[Developereo]

As far as I see the determination of US to fight terrorists, I dont see they have any limits.

They do.
And they are the ones fighting on the ground.
And finally willing to negotiate.

Pakistan will negotiate with Taliban

We are talking about Afghanistan negotiating with the Taliban -- which amounts to an admission of defeat by NATO considering their overwhelming firepower advantage.

we will surely pack our bags and come, but yes we also have a back up plan. we are well aware of what you can do then....

Secret plans! Oh goody!

1. I am not an average Indian..
2. When US faught with Iraq, they didnt have many supporting it, even you and I condemn it every single day.
3. When US faught A'stan, every one extended a hand, and Lol,,You, you are are the biggest hand.

The relevant factor is not diplomatic cover but military capability. India does not have the relative military superiority to conduct surgical strikes within Pakistan and walk away whistling.

 

[Moscow]

Cold start doctrine is simple Indian will mobilize its mechanized and infantry troops so quickly nothing special. We defeated cold start in recent war games Azm-e-Nau.

I think in 1965 war we faced cold start when our armed forces concentrating on Kashmir Indian launched surprised attacks on Lahore and Sialkot but we forced them to retreat.

We defeated cold start in recent war game LOL lool my god you made my day cheers to that just fell off laughing.

 

[deckingraj]

Sorry for bumping in like this but friends i have a question or two to ask...

We are talking about Afghanistan negotiating with the Taliban -- which amounts to an admission of defeat by NATO considering their overwhelming firepower advantage.

How come that is a defeat buddy??? You change your strategies on the ground all the time... Pakistan used this approach in swat and when back stabbed launch offensive....That was change of tactic...you tried one thing you see it is not working well you change your tactic....If changing tactic for Pakistan was not a defeat then how come for NATO????

The relevant factor is not diplomatic cover but military capability. India does not have the relative military superiority to conduct surgical strikes within Pakistan and walk away whistling.

Yes you are right...In today's world we do not have military capacity to conduct surgical strikes and walk away whistling....but remember US won the cold war just by diplomatic might......The way our economy is going and the pace at which we are modernizing our forces we will put lot of pressure on you....Now how pakistan will fight it only time will tell...at the moment things are not looking sunny there...

 

[shanixee]

After mumbai attack...2 indian aircraft crossed Pakistani border but were intersepted and locked by our F16s...few say the were M2k. Mig 29 and few say it was Su30. if it was su30. dont it also work as mini Awaks. i mean cant su30 jam F16 or atleast know its location before it locks it

 

[SQ8]

M2k's.. they were intercepted At the border..tailed till Kharian with a lock.. till they broke off and headed back.
ROE's did not permit firing.
Also.. the Mini Awac issue of su-30 becomes redundant unless it fired from its side of the border.. they probably did pick the Falcons up..at a certain range. But as I heard .. intercepts of comms show the Su-30's were surprised initially by the F-16's and they were not expecting to be intercepted so quickly and tailed so efficiently.

 

[Donatello]

M2k's.. they were intercepted At the border..tailed till Kharian with a lock.. till they broke off and headed back.
ROE's did not permit firing.
Also.. the Mini Awac issue of su-30 becomes redundant unless it fired from its side of the border.. they probably did pick the Falcons up..at a certain range. But as I heard .. intercepts of comms show the Su-30's were surprised initially by the F-16's and they were not expecting to be intercepted so quickly and tailed so efficiently.

Were they intercepted by F-16s (A/B) only?

 

[SQ8]

Were they intercepted by F-16s (A/B) only?

Yup..
The general doctrine somehow entails maximum usage of the F-16.

 

[Donatello]

Yup..
The general doctrine somehow entails maximum usage of the F-16.

Many people tried to downplay the incident i honestly do not know why IAF would do such a thing. With 4th Gen fighters, they can't possibly just stray accidently over a country that they have fought so many wars with.


If you could verify or provide the info on what exactly happened, it would be great.


From my perspective, even if the IAF M2Ks were on a attack mission, they were just too less to do anything, it would have been a suicidal mission as there is no way the jets would have made it back to Indian Airspace.


Also, were F-16s scrambled or were they on Patrol missions, as Kharian is very close to the border.

 

[BATMAN]

Guys previously my psot has been deleted... what we are forgetting is the recent wars....
We have seen use of unconventional wepons....... in this cold start doctrine we need to see more carefully developments in non conventional wepons. for example biological, neutron, microwave etc.
In case of war with india alone i suerly expect them to go in direction of biological warfare... it can be determined by following the developments of indian defence industries in this regard.

 

[Donatello]

Guys previously my psot has been deleted... what we are forgetting is the recent wars....
We have seen use of unconventional wepons....... in this cold start doctrine we need to see more carefully developments in non conventional wepons. for example biological, neutron, microwave etc.
In case of war with india alone i suerly expect them to go in direction of biological warfare... it can be determined by following the developments of indian defence industries in this regard.

It is well known that ISI has certain types of warfare capabilities and as far as i know there is limited research on biological pathogens in Islamabad and near Abottabad.

 

[Joe Shearer]

M2k's.. they were intercepted At the border..tailed till Kharian with a lock.. till they broke off and headed back.
ROE's did not permit firing.
Also.. the Mini Awac issue of su-30 becomes redundant unless it fired from its side of the border.. they probably did pick the Falcons up..at a certain range. But as I heard .. intercepts of comms show the Su-30's were surprised initially by the F-16's and they were not expecting to be intercepted so quickly and tailed so efficiently.

Dear Sir,

Just a clarification: were these M2Ks or SU 30s? It is not clear from your post.

Sincerely,

 

[TaimiKhan]

Dear Sir,

Just a clarification: were these M2Ks or SU 30s? It is not clear from your post.

Sincerely,

These were M2Ks which intruded, Su-30s most probably were giving them support from across the border through its long range radar.

And i believe in one later incident, Su-30s also had intruded.

 

[anathema]

M2k's.. they were intercepted At the border..tailed till Kharian with a lock.. till they broke off and headed back.
ROE's did not permit firing.
Also.. the Mini Awac issue of su-30 becomes redundant unless it fired from its side of the border.. they probably did pick the Falcons up..at a certain range. But as I heard .. intercepts of comms show the Su-30's were surprised initially by the F-16's and they were not expecting to be intercepted so quickly and tailed so efficiently.

Hi santro --

Apologies i wasnt aware of this. Are we talking post mumbai over here ? Also is there any link or is this heresay from pilots !

 

[Developereo]

How come that is a defeat buddy???

A reigning hyperpower does not compromise with a ragtag bunch of guerillas; it dictates terms of surrender.

As for Pakistan in Swat, we were destroying our own our land and killing our own people, who were misguided under foreign backing.
Much better to convert them to our side than to kill them.

Yes you are right...In today's world we do not have military capacity to conduct surgical strikes and walk away whistling....but remember US won the cold war just by diplomatic might......The way our economy is going and the pace at which we are modernizing our forces we will put lot of pressure on you....Now how pakistan will fight it only time will tell...at the moment things are not looking sunny there...

I agree that long term Pakistan must fight India on the economic front but this thread, and my statement, is about Cold Start.

 

[Dash]

We are talking about Afghanistan negotiating with the Taliban -- which amounts to an admission of defeat by NATO considering their overwhelming firepower advantage.

You cant call it a defeat until NATO formally offcially declares it as unsuccessful. War has many forms and this one one form to desturct the infra of Taliban with which they are successfull. Now they will want to negotiate with the enemy. Old brtish principles, and backstab taliban. the way I see it). So the war is not over yet and we shouldnt say they have been defeated.

The relevant factor is not diplomatic cover but military capability. India does not have the relative military superiority to conduct surgical strikes within Pakistan and walk away whistling.

Like I said, war is not just fighting with weapons, sometime weapons and politics watch each others back and support each other. most of the wars are either started by failed politics to make politics as the major player in starting the war. Cases like Iraq and now Iran(may be). and some time politics and war go hand in hand, cases like Russia and Vietnam.

Now if we study cold start it also focuses on both these aspects. Both War and diplomacy.

If you really have to understand any war doctorine, i will say just dont go by the doctorine, look at the situation and the analysis that made the doctorine. coz at any case the doctorine will direct the war in achieving victory which will be diplomatic and military.