Countering Cold Start doctrine by PAF

[you are fired]

well Pakistan should only think few questions

development
growth
happiness

 

[Jackdaws]

Uh huh, whatever makes you sleep better at night.



IntelliBriefs: How Israel helped India win the Kargil War

Keep in mind that this is an Indian source so it still perpetuates the myth that India was 'winning', but even so it acknowledges that Israel helped out where India was hopelessly outclassed.

In any case, this is getting off-topic; the main point is how much leverage US will have over Pakistani reaction to an Indian invasion on Pakistan proper. I think the Indians are deluding themselves if they think Pakistan will listen to Uncle Sam like we did in Kargil.

My Irish friend Tullamore Dew helps me sleep better at night.


Hopelessly outclassed? LOL. So India was using Israeli help. Last I checked the Stinger missiles mentioned in the article and used by Pakistan was designed by Raytheon which I doubt is HQed in Karachi. The Indian Howitzers were Swedish and Bofors continued to supply ammo after the ban on it was lifted while the Indian AF used Russian jets. So according to your logic - Pakistan gained the upper hand thanks to the Americans and India wrested it thanks to the Swedes, Israelis and Russians. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[Dash]

In any case, this is getting off-topic; the main point is how much leverage US will have over Pakistani reaction to an Indian invasion on Pakistan proper. I think the Indians are deluding themselves if they think Pakistan will listen to Uncle Sam like we did in Kargil.

US wouldnt eeven want a war at first place. As per intercepting BMs, Russia can do that for us and even we can do it to some extent. and an interception in air, if it happens wth a minumum altitude of 25 Kms then its still fine...If that was going to break a nuclear fall out then the whole Idea of interception comes under scrutiny doesnt it?..

US would always persuade Pakistan to stop a war and it does with India too.
However Pakistan here needs to play its cards well.

What I see here in case of failure in A'stan(which almost is for US), Us will be turned to India by proxy to control the terrorism activities here. If the anti terrorism campaign is not follwed closely by pakistan, you might see a changed political equation here, and that too not in diatant future.

US in no case will directly involve itself in war as it will call for China to give herself a chance to open up, but thats still debatable.

India will not invade Pakistan, but so could be case in surgical strikes (again speculative), and here US will support India.

Again the ball lies in Pakistan's court.

 

[Ishan]

My Irish friend Tullamore Dew helps me sleep better at night.


Hopelessly outclassed? LOL. So India was using Israeli help. Last I checked the Stinger missiles mentioned in the article and used by Pakistan was designed by Raytheon which I doubt is HQed in Karachi. The Indian Howitzers were Swedish and Bofors continued to supply ammo after the ban on it was lifted while the Indian AF used Russian jets. So according to your logic - Pakistan gained the upper hand thanks to the Americans and India wrested it thanks to the Swedes, Israelis and Russians. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

What a Brilliant reply

 

[Donatello]

Wht a Delusion tht Pakistan was winning Kargil War.. I mean "Winning"

Even the Sensible Generals during Musharrafs times called it a Blunder

And Israel Bailed out India.. Tht was also good Joke

The war was won militarily because your Army failed to have intelligence on Pakistan's army and suffered heavy casualties as a result.

It was a political blunder, yes and most Pakistani's agree because Musharraf force his commanders to cross the international LOC.

 

[Dash]

Guys Israel did help India in kargil war, we were having issues in getting the survellieence of the bunkers where Israeli satelites gave us teh co-ordinates for precision bombings..

Anyway, Israel helped us and its a fact, so no point in accepting it.

 

[Ishan]

The war was won militarily because your Army failed to have intelligence on Pakistan's army and suffered heavy casualties as a result.

It was a political blunder, yes and most Pakistani's agree because Musharraf force his commanders to cross the international LOC.

So if Intially India failed to have Intelligence tht Means India Lost

 

[Developereo]

My Irish friend Tullamore Dew helps me sleep better at night.


Hopelessly outclassed? LOL. So India was using Israeli help. Last I checked the Stinger missiles mentioned in the article and used by Pakistan was designed by Raytheon which I doubt is HQed in Karachi. The Indian Howitzers were Swedish and Bofors continued to supply ammo after the ban on it was lifted while the Indian AF used Russian jets. So according to your logic - Pakistan gained the upper hand thanks to the Americans and India wrested it thanks to the Swedes, Israelis and Russians. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Let me explain it this way.

If you go boating and take a life-preserver with you, and your boat capsizes, you can save yourself because you were properly prepared.

If, however, you did not plan properly, and someone had to throw you a life preserver in the middle of an emergency, then they saved you.

Capisce?

Now, back to topic please...

 

[Developereo]

What I see here in case of failure in A'stan(which almost is for US), Us will be turned to India by proxy to control the terrorism activities here.

Doubtful. The US is leaning exactly the opposite way, shutting India out and favoring a Pak-Afghan resolution to the crisis.

US in no case will directly involve itself in war as it will call for China to give herself a chance to open up, but thats still debatable.

US is a military hyperpower. It can involve itself with impunity wherever it wants and walk away. We're not talking about US troop involvement here, just a missile intercept, and neither India nor Pakistan can retaliate against the US if it does so.

India will not invade Pakistan, but so could be case in surgical strikes (again speculative)

That's the whole point. Pakistan will treat any CS 'surgical strike' as a declaration of war.

Again the ball lies in Pakistan's court.

As to the question of how to finish the war started by an Indian CS, it certainly does!

 

[Jackdaws]

Let me explain it this way.

If you go boating and take a life-preserver with you, and your boat capsizes, you can save yourself because you were properly prepared.

If, however, you did not plan properly, and someone had to throw you a life preserver in the middle of an emergency, then they saved you.

Capisce?

Now, back to topic please...

Brilliant analogy. It would actually work when -

If my boat capsized and I was drowning without a life jacket - the coast guard would come and ask for my MasterCard - after swiping my MasterCard on his portable merchant card acceptor - he would ask me what kind of life jacket I needed. After ascertaining my needs and passing me the receipt to sign and verifying my signature - he would hand me the life jacket. Capisce?

Point being there is no free lunch - all weapon suppliers to India would have received some form of payment - it is a shame we did not have an A.Q. Khan there to steal.

 

[Dash]

Doubtful. The US is leaning exactly the opposite way, shutting India out and favoring a Pak-Afghan resolution to the crisis.

If you look at carefully, its not favoring, its actually pressuring you to act tough against taliban, So that itself says that either US is impetient and doesnt trust your actions against them. we have enough literature available to prove that US trusting pakistan for teh time being and you will agree here, if India will allow provide a military support to US in tackling Taliban, then you can see a game change. In drastic cases if any time Taliban initiates a full fledged anti Indian campaign then you can see that coming. However that is not happening in near future.

US is a military hyperpower. It can involve itself with impunity wherever it wants and walk away. We're not talking about US troop involvement here, just a missile intercept, and neither India nor Pakistan can retaliate against the US if it does so.

Wrong, US was a military hyperpower and when there were days it was in war with Russia, it resorted to cold war and proxy war. A military hyperpower also has limitations. and about missile as i said we will not request them to do so, if they come to us themselves, then you never know we might allow it. and in such a case, it will be wise to do so. you never know US will be intercepting all our missile tipped with Nuke and we are fighting only in gropund thinking where our missile are...LOLLL

That's the whole point. Pakistan will treat any CS 'surgical strike' as a declaration of war.

the way things are going on now, in case of a surgical strike by India, pakistan can declare a full fledged war and it might have sympathies from other countries and we know that, so we will not do it. however Imagine a situation when pakistan fails both in WOT and India has a 9/11 type of stuff. Then where will you hide?

You can declare a full fledged war but you need to be in a state of that, unless you have decided that our citizen will no longer live to see another day.

As to the question of how to finish the war started by an Indian CS, it certainly does!

Thats your confidence, I hope your leaders have teh same guts and confidence.

 

[Developereo]

If you look at carefully, its not favoring, its actually pressuring you to act tough against taliban, So that itself says that either US is impetient and doesnt trust your actions against them. we have enough literature available to prove that US trusting pakistan for teh time being and you will agree here, if India will allow provide a military support to US in tackling Taliban, then you can see a game change. In drastic cases if any time Taliban initiates a full fledged anti Indian campaign then you can see that coming. However that is not happening in near future.

The US knows there are limits to its pressure tactics, which is why they are asking Karzai to compromise with Pakistan and also to negotiate with the Taliban, which was Pakistan's suggestion all along.

They are not asking India to do anything, except sit tight and pack their bags for the day when their guardian NATO leaves.

the way things are going on now, in case of a surgical strike by India, pakistan can declare a full fledged war and it might have sympathies from other countries and we know that, so we will not do it. however Imagine a situation when pakistan fails both in WOT and India has a 9/11 type of stuff. Then where will you hide?

Therein lies the problem. The average Indian is under the illusion that India will rise up mightily and swat Pakistan if there is a terrorist incident. Like the US did to Afghanistan after 9/11.

But India cannot do that, for India is not the US and Pakistan is not Afghanistan.
Your generals know that.

 

[SEAL]

Cold start doctrine is simple Indian will mobilize its mechanized and infantry troops so quickly nothing special. We defeated cold start in recent war games Azm-e-Nau.

I think in 1965 war we faced cold start when our armed forces concentrating on Kashmir Indian launched surprised attacks on Lahore and Sialkot but we forced them to retreat.

 

[Dash]

The US knows there are limits to its pressure tactics, which is why they are asking Karzai to compromise with Pakistan and also to negotiate with the Taliban, which was Pakistan's suggestion all along.

As far as I see the determination of US to fight terrorists, I dont see they have any limits. These are options for the time being. which they will play unless you committ any mistakes.
The US also knows that what Pakistan will negotiate with Taliban, They just want to see how you negotiate too. Like I said its all part of the option. and trust me the whole world is watching as to what and how you are negotiating with Taliban. Play it good else it will be another diplomatic distater for you yeilding to other type of distasters.

They are not asking India to do anything, except sit tight and pack their bags for the day when their guardian NATO leaves.

we will surely pack our bags and come, but yes we also have a back up plan. we are well aware of what you can do then....

Therein lies the problem. The average Indian is under the illusion that India will rise up mightily and swat Pakistan if there is a terrorist incident. Like the US did to Afghanistan after 9/11.

1. I am not an average Indian..
2. When US faught with Iraq, they didnt have many supporting it, even you and I condemn it every single day.
3. When US faught A'stan, every one extended a hand, and Lol,,You, you are are the biggest hand.

So keep your fingures crossed, I dont know if you are an average paskitani or an elite one, but you certainly are directionless in a directionless Pakistan.
All you have to do now is play your politics and strategy good.

 

[Donatello]

As far as I see the determination of US to fight terrorists, I dont see they have any limits. These are options for the time being. which they will play unless you committ any mistakes.
The US also knows that what Pakistan will negotiate with Taliban, They just want to see how you negotiate too. Like I said its all part of the option. and trust me the whole world is watching as to what and how you are negotiating with Taliban. Play it good else it will be another diplomatic distater for you yeilding to other type of distasters.



1. I am not an average Indian..
2. When US faught with Iraq, they didnt have many supporting it, even you and I condemn it every single day.
3. When US faught A'stan, every one extended a hand, and Lol,,You, you are are the biggest hand.

So keep your fingures crossed, I dont know if you are an average paskitani or an elite one, but you certainly are directionless in a directionless Pakistan.
All you have to do now is play your politics and strategy good.

And what backup plans do you have, may i ask?

As far as we know, even if you had any, they didn't seem to work, not at least for the last 9 years...



And, what do you mean that you are not an Average Indian?
You mean you do have access to toilets and clean water right?