Count Down begins for Arrival of the 100th JF17 Thunder

[MastanKhan]

But sir nmbers have their own significance , we cannot catch our adversary in qualitative edge but we can maitaibn quantity factor with less expensive jet like jf17

Hi,

No---they don't---not anymore---.

The gap in technology is so wide---the superior product so superior----the inferior product rather lame---the old thinking of numbers have their own strength does not hold good in this circumstance amongst many others---.

 

[Signalian]

A mixture of different aircraft can work out well. A cutting edge aircraft in small numbers supplemented by mid tier aircraft which can be produced in large numbers. It becomes hard for one type of machine to win battles, a combination is always good.

So as in numbers by this narration Indian SU30 fleet is over 300 so we need 600 thunders ?

Not really. A 4.5/5th gen aircraft supplemented by 150 JF-17 should do. There are 76 F-16 also which should be used in combination with a new aircraft.

Surely 1:2 kill for a J11 can’t be good news for the PAF!!

Im glad this happened. With ever changing technology, its not suitable to rely on one type of aircraft whether cheap to produce or not, although JF-17 will get continuous upgrades during its life time, but it has its limitations. A newer type of aircraft is required very soon. PAF should make a decision.

 

[ziaulislam]

Hi,

A good general would rather have 24 extraordinary aircraft rather than 150 ordinary aircraft in his inventory.

a good general would also know that 100,000 ordinary spear man that are loyal and reliable are better 1000 best cavalry that may or may not be loyal

i still believe that unless economy improves we cannot afford a 6-8 billion dollars foreign exchange deal, to put in prospective this is the amount we took as bail out from IMF

a new aircraft would need at least 36 units to be effective

i still believe that focus should be thunders once we can achieve that than the second focus should be either f-16s or another plan like J-11

this is the ploy that was successfully used by Sweden to deter Soviet block, to deploy a single indigenous capable but cheap aircraft against a massive enemy, to spread it resources along vast majority area rather than a single squadron of superior aircrafts that may be taken out by the enemey quickly in war

 

[Chak Bamu]

a good general would also know that 100,000 ordinary spear man that are loyal and reliable are better 1000 best cavalry that may or may not be loyal

i still believe that unless economy improves we cannot afford a 6-8 billion dollars foreign exchange deal, to put in prospective this is the amount we took as bail out from IMF

a new aircraft would need at least 36 units to be effective

i still believe that focus should be thunders once we can achieve that than the second focus should be either f-16s or another plan like J-11

this is the ploy that was successfully used by Sweden to deter Soviet block, to deploy a single indigenous capable but cheap aircraft against a massive enemy, to spread it resources along vast majority area rather than a single squadron of superior aircrafts that may be taken out by the enemey quickly in war

Sir, janay daein... he will start ranting about mongols and stuff.

We need sustained focus on economy and HDI, not new war toys. Paying for toys will kill us before any enemy begins to consider the possibility.

 

[volatile]

In defensive role ,recent exercise have shown although thunder a good cheap bird but not able to take on bigger challenge, F16 forget it it will not be used due to sanctions

Not really. A 4.5/5th gen aircraft supplemented by 150 JF-17 should do. There are 76 F-16 also which should be used in combination with a new aircraft.

 

[Fawad alam]

What is the plan of PAF?
Mig-35, SU-35 or nothing

God forbids,
But in case of real war, India can shift all of his MKIs in our border and then this number of junks will not help without presence of good quality air crafts.
I am really sorry to say that prayers will not work if you will not prepare.

 

[Chak Bamu]

What is the plan of PAF?
Mig-35, SU-35 or nothing

God forbids,
But in case of real war, India can shift all of his MKIs in our border and then this number of junks will not help without presence of good quality air crafts.
I am really sorry to say that prayers will not work if you will not prepare.

All Pakistan needs is deterrence and we have that.

You also need to consider this:

1. India can never afford to move all its assets onto our border. It is always worried about China. That is why Indian defense analysts are worried about a two front war.

2. Learn from your enemy. India's focus is economy, not war-toys. IAF is perennially short of aircraft. But nobody there is in a hurry to throw money at new combat airplanes. Just look at their procurement process that is widely considered a joke, but they persist with it because of many reasons.

3. Where India beats Pakistan hands down is its much higher growth rate and robust institutions. Their civilian leaders control their military, & not vice versa as in Pakistan. That is why in a few more years, the economic & institutional disparity would grow to an extent that Pakistan would be forced to sacrifice national interest for the sake of peace.

4. Pakiatan's toxic internal power dynamics threaten to derail fragile recovery. That should worry you far more than any toys or lack thereof.

5. Just one more terrorist act in India that can be shown to have links with Pakistan-based groups would provide enough of an excuse for sanctions from USA, which holds important voting rights in multilateral institutions. That is why it is important to control rogue elements inside Pakistan.

So you see, it is not what India might do to us, but what we are doing to ourselves that should worry you. There is no dignity or pride in having a strong army when at least a third of our children are out of school, HDI indicators are abysmal, and our institutions are worth less than whims of a few people.

In a decade or so, there would be nothing worth protecting in Pakistan, in spite of China's best efforts. And of course nothing will change as long as people lust after toys instead of investing in education, development, & strengthening institutions.

 

[Signalian]

In defensive role ,recent exercise have shown although thunder a good cheap bird but not able to take on bigger challenge, F16 forget it it will not be used due to sanctions

if i get you correctly, you are saying that F-16 will remain grounded during war time?

 

[ziaulislam]

All Pakistan needs is deterrence and we have that.

You also need to consider this:

1. India can never afford to move all its assets onto our border. It is always worried about China. That is why Indian defense analysts are worried about a two front war.

2. Learn from your enemy. India's focus is economy, not war-toys. IAF is perennially short of aircraft. But nobody there is in a hurry to throw money at new combat airplanes. Just look at their procurement process that is widely considered a joke, but they persist with it because of many reasons.

3. Where India beats Pakistan hands down is its much higher growth rate and robust institutions. Their civilian leaders control their military, & not vice versa as in Pakistan. That is why in a few more years, the economic & institutional disparity would grow to an extent that Pakistan would be forced to sacrifice national interest for the sake of peace.

4. Pakiatan's toxic internal power dynamics threaten to derail fragile recovery. That should worry you far more than any toys or lack thereof.

5. Just one more terrorist act in India that can be shown to have links with Pakistan-based groups would provide enough of an excuse for sanctions from USA, which holds important voting rights in multilateral institutions. That is why it is important to control rogue elements inside Pakistan.

So you see, it is not what India might do to us, but what we are doing to ourselves that should worry you. There is no dignity or pride in having a strong army when at least a third of our children are out of school, HDI indicators are abysmal, and our institutions are worth less than whims of a few people.

In a decade or so, there would be nothing worth protecting in Pakistan, in spite of China's best efforts. And of course nothing will change as long as people lust after toys instead of investing in education, development, & strengthening institutions.

even at height of cold war when soviet were eating up each country in europe nobody went into spending frenzie...

yet we thinking about spending 3-4% of gdp in single foreign transaction when you have extreme pressure on foreign reserves and barely able to keep it up via expensive foreign loans

the problem is big ticket deals from foreign countries without financing will have a big short term fiscal probelm

one of the best example is sweden, it was all alone not part of NATO yet instead of spending frenzie it went in to develop its own military industry first viggen(>300 built, sweden sole operator) and than gripen, even though it had complete access to best european and usa tech but ti knew that a fewer excellent airact can quickly be neutralized by russia instead opted for more smaller, assests that can be spread over all the country

 

[MastanKhan]

a good general would also know that 100,000 ordinary spear man that are loyal and reliable are better 1000 best cavalry that may or may not be loyal

i still believe that unless economy improves we cannot afford a 6-8 billion dollars foreign exchange deal, to put in prospective this is the amount we took as bail out from IMF

a new aircraft would need at least 36 units to be effective

i still believe that focus should be thunders once we can achieve that than the second focus should be either f-16s or another plan like J-11

this is the ploy that was successfully used by Sweden to deter Soviet block, to deploy a single indigenous capable but cheap aircraft against a massive enemy, to spread it resources along vast majority area rather than a single squadron of superior aircrafts that may be taken out by the enemey quickly in war

Hi,

If the cavalry is mongol---and their general is Subotai Bahdur---he would run circles around the 100000 spearmen---.

The mongol warriors would outshoot them from distance---till they have slaughtered all 100000---.

See BVR is not a new weapon---its tactical use was perfected by the mongol compound bow.

See---the example of sweden never works---. You always have to lookout for the monster standing behind sweden and protecting it.

 

[volatile]

if i get you correctly, you are saying that F-16 will remain grounded during war time?

If not permanently but we will see spare availability and Al Mushoor Kill Switches (by the way theory has weight as in 2010 while i was in a lecture from Guest trainer she hinted similar things and how our Engineers are trying to fool the system

 

[BetterPakistan]

@MastanKhan

Hello,

Sir its been a lot of time since we saw JF-17 after 86th one. Has the production of the rest of 14 JF-17b delayed or in testing phase?

Secondly, Do you think PAF will go for a long range 4+ generation fighter other than JF-17 block 3 or PAF will directly go for 5th gen?

 

[devil thunder 302]

@MastanKhan

Hello,

Sir its been a lot of time since we saw JF-17 after 86th one. Has the production of the rest of 14 JF-17b delayed or in testing phase?

Secondly, Do you think PAF will go for a long range 4+ generation fighter other than JF-17 block 3 or PAF will directly go for 5th gen?

well i have seen many pics of jf's 17-234 and 241 and are present on pdf but dont remind on which thread

@MastanKhan

Hello,

Sir its been a lot of time since we saw JF-17 after 86th one. Has the production of the rest of 14 JF-17b delayed or in testing phase?

Secondly, Do you think PAF will go for a long range 4+ generation fighter other than JF-17 block 3 or PAF will directly go for 5th gen?

here u go

Now as u can see ac#13 2p47 16 ac's this year and 13th in process and others too

well i have seen many pics of jf's 17-234 and 241 and are present on pdf but dont remind on which thread



here u go

Now as u can see ac#13 2p47 16 ac's this year and 13th in process and others too

 

[Mrc]

If the cavalry is mongol---and their general is Subotai Bahdur---he would run circles around the 100000 spearmen---

Wasnt subtai the same general Who got slaughtered at ain jalat from hands of a far inferior force??

 

[BATMAN]

But in case of real war, India can shift all of his MKIs in our border

If MKI you mean SU-27 which Indian air force use, than they are only good for targeting practice.
They once participated in US redflag exercise, where they were termed as flying turkeys.