Count Down begins for Arrival of the 100th JF17 Thunder

[Chak Bamu]

Wasnt subtai the same general Who got slaughtered at ain jalat from hands of a far inferior force??

Please do not feed him. Its way off-topic and sensible folks know what to make of his posts and inane comparisons.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

If MKI you mean SU-27 which Indian air force use, than they are only good for targeting practice.
They once participated in US redflag exercise, where they were termed as flying turkeys.

Americans have apologized to Indian internet force on behalf off USAF making fun of IAF jets

 

[oOo]

Americans have apologized to Indian internet force on behalf off USAF making fun of IAF jets

They infact should not have, the main workhorse of fourth largest airforce IAF and that of third largest Russian AF is indeed a flying turkey best suited for target practice. Did I miss including chinese here?

 

[ziaulislam]

Hi,

If the cavalry is mongol---and their general is Subotai Bahdur---he would run circles around the 100000 spearmen---.

The mongol warriors would outshoot them from distance---till they have slaughtered all 100000---.

See BVR is not a new weapon---its tactical use was perfected by the mongol compound bow.

See---the example of sweden never works---. You always have to lookout for the monster standing behind sweden and protecting it.

if you wan talk history i can involve you all day for how spear man in china destroyed cavalry during china unification war but neither i (medical resident) or you have the time

i usually give the real life example of Sweden during cold war rather

PAF is unfortunately the sister branch and gets smallest of the pie, if its given choice between getting 2 new sq & axing its full strength vs keeping its 20 sq strength with thunders , i would opt for the later...
PML N has nt delivered on economy or terrorism as much as we would have expected, so economy still cannot afford big ticket sales that would pressurize foreign reserves unless they are through chinese loans which have build up any way

lets see whether block 3 gets the up rated rd 93ma engine(20% increase in thrust), whether it gets more than 8 hard points, and whether the combination of this increase its endurance or range and payload

we will also need to see what other stand off weapons will thunder get besides from REK

 

[BATMAN]

People of Pakistan should learn a bit about MKI before getting impressed of it!

M= its Russian product
K= its export version of SU-27 (inferior to local Su-27)
I= its for India

Rest of the numbers are Indian choice, which has only ego at the background.

Americans have apologized to Indian internet force on behalf off USAF making fun of IAF jets

You meant this:

 

[MastanKhan]

if you wan talk history i can involve you all day for how spear man in china destroyed cavalry during china unification war but neither i (medical resident) or you have the time

i usually give the real life example of Sweden during cold war rather

PAF is unfortunately the sister branch and gets smallest of the pie, if its given choice between getting 2 new sq & axing its full strength vs keeping its 20 sq strength with thunders , i would opt for the later...
PML N has nt delivered on economy or terrorism as much as we would have expected, so economy still cannot afford big ticket sales that would pressurize foreign reserves unless they are through chinese loans which have build up any way

lets see whether block 3 gets the up rated rd 93ma engine(20% increase in thrust), whether it gets more than 8 hard points, and whether the combination of this increase its endurance or range and payload

we will also need to see what other stand off weapons will thunder get besides from REK

Hi,

The spear men only destroyed cavalry---because the GENERALS were too THICK HEADED to change their tactics---. They threw in more soldiers rather admit to their mistakes and change tactics---.

That is what Subotai changed for the mongol armies---when in a fix---fight another day. The mongol pony could run all day long---and then the mongol had two spare ponies to ride as well.

The enemy would break ranks and start chasing the mongols---the moment they broke their ranks---they were a piecemeal for the mongols---.

But then other disciplined armies that did not break ranks against cavalry or chased after them and stood firm on their ground succeeded---just like the european forces against the Truk cavalry---. The europeans formed squares---the turks could not break thru---they kept smashing into the squares---but the generals did not change tactics---rest is history.

As for now---the little pony cannot 'fly' all day long---the larger aircraft with a better EW suite and weapons will engage and disengage at will---.

The technology gap between the euro fighter and jf 17 is too wide---and that gives the euro fighter a massive force multiplier---.

The engagements will be 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2---. It is not like 200 JF17's will converge on the 25 odd euro fighters at the same time and duke it out---like old days.

So---posters should think of that part rather than talk about the numerical superiority at random.

Wasnt subtai the same general Who got slaughtered at ain jalat from hands of a far inferior force??

Hi,

Subotai died of old age---. There was no inferior force at ain a jalut---.

The senior generals and most of the mongol army had gone back to their capital to mourn the Khan who had died---.

That is what saved europe and the rest of the middle east---.

At ain jalut---it was the inferior fore of mongols that came to battle---not their usual force.

@MastanKhan

Hello,

Sir its been a lot of time since we saw JF-17 after 86th one. Has the production of the rest of 14 JF-17b delayed or in testing phase?

Secondly, Do you think PAF will go for a long range 4+ generation fighter other than JF-17 block 3 or PAF will directly go for 5th gen?

Hi,

Paf is like a chicken running around with its head cutoff---. You can speculate for normal behavior---but with Paf nothing holds true.

 

[Mrc]

At ain jalut---it was the inferior fore of mongols that came to battle---not their usual force.

Stop reading history from wiki

 

[Irfan Baloch]

People of Pakistan should learn a bit about MKI before getting impressed of it!

M= its Russian product
K= its export version of SU-27 (inferior to local Su-27)
I= its for India

Rest of the numbers are Indian choice, which has only ego at the background.



You meant this:

yes I did. the Indians demanded his blood and termed him ISI agent as well.

 

[BATMAN]

the Indians demanded his blood and termed him ISI agent as well

Really... I know Indians are fanatic about Pakistan and ISI but this is extreme.

 

[MastanKhan]

Stop reading history from wiki

Hi,

'wiki' is for your age group---I am too old to fall for 'wiki'.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Hi,

'wiki' is for your age group---I am too old to fall for 'wiki'.

OT

In that case you are forgetting stuff that you read decades ago. My reading memory is getting a little hazy too, and that is why I do not indulge in debates unless I know exactly and quote sources.

Consider 2 important things:

1. Mobility and projectile attacks were preferred tactics not only for Mongols, but also many other armies & empires. There is value in it, but it is possible to defend against it by using disciplined troop deployment. Romans vs. Parthians & French vs. Mamluks are good examples. You can not just shoe-horn everything to fit a certain narrative. Important nuance must not be lost. An important tactic assumed by the Mongols was psy-ops and use of agents to demoralize opponents.

Xiongnu, the confederation centered around Mongolia were a major threat to Han China, and were defeated by Chinese armies, despite enjoying all the advantages that later Mongols would have. The point is that issues are seldom as black-and-white as you make them out to be.

2. Mongols were considered barbarians, and had always been closely watched by the Chinese. Earlier history records how Chinese Emperor's court kept an eye on the barbarians in the empire's north.

Who are today's barbarians? I would suggest that today's barbarians are the ones who are forced to migrate outwards due to over-population, lack of opportunities, low HDI, and unstable governance. Who could I be alluding to? Today's barbarians are us. The world is afraid of us, not Mongols. I would suggest that you keep this very important distinction in mind before you start off again on your over-familiar rants. Your prescriptions of military spending are nothing but disaster because they would accentuate Pakistan's problems and create much greater instability.

You could begin to understand why Chinese are engaging with today's barbarians. It is to achieve a degree of control on regions that could create trouble as Pax-Sina rises. Chinese are very smart. They are not merely throwing money around. They are making strategic investments for their future. War, therefore, can only be bad for the emerging scheme of things. Chinese would not want a war in Asia and they would rather co-opt their would-be rivals than confront them in war.

So, Pakistanis should learn to be happy with what they have achieved and work on achieving what they sorely miss - namely HDI via strengthening of internal institutional framework. War-toys will lead to ruin. Our short history is a witness to it.

My post shall shock many, but this is the truth as I see it. We are seeing rise of Pax-Sina and from Chinese perspective war is highly undesirable. If we do not fall in line, we shall be made to do so. And by Allah that would be good for us.

 

[Awan68]

Hi,

The spear men only destroyed cavalry---because the GENERALS were too THICK HEADED to change their tactics---. They threw in more soldiers rather admit to their mistakes and change tactics---.

That is what Subotai changed for the mongol armies---when in a fix---fight another day. The mongol pony could run all day long---and then the mongol had two spare ponies to ride as well.

The enemy would break ranks and start chasing the mongols---the moment they broke their ranks---they were a piecemeal for the mongols---.

But then other disciplined armies that did not break ranks against cavalry or chased after them and stood firm on their ground succeeded---just like the european forces against the Truk cavalry---. The europeans formed squares---the turks could not break thru---they kept smashing into the squares---but the generals did not change tactics---rest is history.

As for now---the little pony cannot 'fly' all day long---the larger aircraft with a better EW suite and weapons will engage and disengage at will---.

The technology gap between the euro fighter and jf 17 is too wide---and that gives the euro fighter a massive force multiplier---.

The engagements will be 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2---. It is not like 200 JF17's will converge on the 25 odd euro fighters at the same time and duke it out---like old days.

So---posters should think of that part rather than talk about the numerical superiority at random.



Hi,

Subotai died of old age---. There was no inferior force at ain a jalut---.

The senior generals and most of the mongol army had gone back to their capital to mourn the Khan who had died---.

That is what saved europe and the rest of the middle east---.

At ain jalut---it was the inferior fore of mongols that came to battle---not their usual force.



Hi,

Paf is like a chicken running around with its head cutoff---. You can speculate for normal behavior---but with Paf nothing holds true.

long before the Mongols this art was perfected by the Parthians when they defeated crassus and his legions( in testudo stance) by circling around them n bombarding them with arrows, the romans relied on tight formations n discipline among ranks and that is exactly what the Parthians used against them, their greatest strength became the reason for their downfall, rome never ventured in Parthia again..

 

[MastanKhan]

OT

In that case you are forgetting stuff that you read decades ago. My reading memory is getting a little hazy too, and that is why I do not indulge in debates unless I know exactly and quote sources.

Consider 2 important things:

1. Mobility and projectile attacks were preferred tactics not only for Mongols, but also many other armies & empires. There is value in it, but it is possible to defend against it by using disciplined troop deployment. Romans vs. Parthians & French vs. Mamluks are good examples. You can not just shoe-horn everything to fit a certain narrative. Important nuance must not be lost. An important tactic assumed by the Mongols was psy-ops and use of agents to demoralize opponents.

2. Mongols were considered barbarians, and had always been closely watched by the Chinese. Earlier history records how Chinese Emperor's court kept an eye on the barbarians in the empire's north.

My post shall shock many, but this is the truth as I see it. We are seeing rise of Pax-Sina and from Chinese perspective war is highly undesirable. If we do not fall in line, we shall be made to do so. And by Allah that would be good for us.

Hi,

That is one strange post---if you are becoming forgetful---that is your issue---not mine---.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Hi,

That is one strange post---if you are becoming forgetful---that is your issue---not mine---.

When you can not argue against evidence, attack the person presenting it.

It seems strange because your mind is closed. You can not imagine anything beyond your limited horizon. The usual bile you put out can not be poured out here because I called out your biased narrative and smashed it with facts.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

OT

In that case you are forgetting stuff that you read decades ago. My reading memory is getting a little hazy too, and that is why I do not indulge in debates unless I know exactly and quote sources.

Consider 2 important things:

1. Mobility and projectile attacks were preferred tactics not only for Mongols, but also many other armies & empires. There is value in it, but it is possible to defend against it by using disciplined troop deployment. Romans vs. Parthians & French vs. Mamluks are good examples. You can not just shoe-horn everything to fit a certain narrative. Important nuance must not be lost. An important tactic assumed by the Mongols was psy-ops and use of agents to demoralize opponents.

Xiongnu, the confederation centered around Mongolia were a major threat to Han China, and were defeated by Chinese armies, despite enjoying all the advantages that later Mongols would have. The point is that issues are seldom as black-and-white as you make them out to be.

2. Mongols were considered barbarians, and had always been closely watched by the Chinese. Earlier history records how Chinese Emperor's court kept an eye on the barbarians in the empire's north.

Who are today's barbarians? I would suggest that today's barbarians are the ones who are forced to migrate outwards due to over-population, lack of opportunities, low HDI, and unstable governance. Who could I be alluding to? Today's barbarians are us. The world is afraid of us, not Mongols. I would suggest that you keep this very important distinction in mind before you start off again on your over-familiar rants. Your prescriptions of military spending are nothing but disaster because they would accentuate Pakistan's problems and create much greater instability.

You could begin to understand why Chinese are engaging with today's barbarians. It is to achieve a degree of control on regions that could create trouble as Pax-Sina rises. Chinese are very smart. They are not merely throwing money around. They are making strategic investments for their future. War, therefore, can only be bad for the emerging scheme of things. Chinese would not want a war in Asia and they would rather co-opt their would-be rivals than confront them in war.

So, Pakistanis should learn to be happy with what they have achieved and work on achieving what they sorely miss - namely HDI via strengthening of internal institutional framework. War-toys will lead to ruin. Our short history is a witness to it.

My post shall shock many, but this is the truth as I see it. We are seeing rise of Pax-Sina and from Chinese perspective war is highly undesirable. If we do not fall in line, we shall be made to do so. And by Allah that would be good for us.

There will be no Pax-Sina. It will be Pax-Judiaca. The Chinese will never control money and money will be vastly different than it is now in the near future.

The ones that control the global financial system will never allow it. They plan for the future and that doesn't include china. If half the worlds population has to be wiped out for them to maintain their monopoly then so be it.

China is playing a dangerous game making the offer they made to the Saudis challenging the petro-dollar. China does not desire war but there are some in the world that do. Remember that.

In this event, Pakistan will be involved as will the majority of the nations in the world. Today's Pakistani leaders have no foresight of what is to come very nearly. But I still believe that this nation will be spared somehow while many others will perish and it is at this time Islam's true face will finally uncover itself to this wretched world.