Could the F-7PG package sorted out PAF BVR problem?

[nightrider_saulat]

of course they ll fly their way to Pakistan.

BELIEVE ME F-16 WILL NEVER MAKE THEIR WAY TO PAKISTAN
I THINK J-10B(IF IT EXISTS) CAN BE VERY NICE REPLACEMENT IN PLACE OF
NEW F-16s FROM US
BUT STILL I WOULD SAY THAT J-10B CAN'T MATCH F-16 BLOCL60
IN TERMS OF EVERYTHING LIKE
AIR-AIR COMBAT
AIR-GROUND ATTACK
NAVAL ATTACK
AND ALSO IN TERMS OF RADARS ,ENGINES AND PAYLOADS
F-16s ARE FAR MORE SUPERIOR TO J-10

​

 

[SBD-3]

BELIEVE ME F-16 WILL NEVER MAKE THEIR WAY TO PAKISTAN

Not confirmed uptill now

I THINK J-10B(IF IT EXISTS) CAN BE VERY NICE REPLACEMENT IN PLACE OF
NEW F-16s FROM US

it already exists

BUT STILL I WOULD SAY THAT J-10B CAN'T MATCH F-16 BLOCL60
IN TERMS OF EVERYTHING LIKE
AIR-AIR COMBAT
AIR-GROUND ATTACK
NAVAL ATTACK

Compare them with Block 52 what PAF is getting and J-10 is not comparable to F-16 is they are both different in roles and characteristics
AND ALSO IN TERMS OF RADARS ,ENGINES AND PAYLOADS
F-16s ARE FAR MORE SUPERIOR TO J-10
It is unclear what Avios and Radar is FC-20 going to get

 

[nightrider_saulat]

Not confirmed uptill now

it already exists

Compare them with Block 52 what PAF is getting and J-10 is not comparable to F-16 is they are both different in roles and characteristics
AND ALSO IN TERMS OF RADARS ,ENGINES AND PAYLOADS
F-16s ARE FAR MORE SUPERIOR TO J-10
It is unclear what Avios and Radar is FC-20 going to get

NO NO THEY ARE ACTUALLY QUITE COMMAN
AS THEY BOTH ARE MULTI-ROLE AIRCRAFT
WITH BOTH AIR COMBAT JOB
AND DEEP PENETRATION STRIKE JOB
BT IF WE PUT J-10B
IN A CURRENT CHINESE RADARS AND MISSILES
THAN
F-16(DESERT FALCON) WOULD SURELY
OUT SMART J-10B
ANYWHERE OR ANYTIME​

 

[nightrider_saulat]

COMMING BACK TO THE TOPIC
I THINK PAF's CURRENT F-7PG
ARE FAR BETTER THAN INDIAN MIG-21 BISON
IN TERMS OF AERODYNAMICS DESIGN
FOR AIR-AIR COMBAT MENEUVARBILITY
AND ARE THE BEST AVAILABLE INTERCEPTORS
FOR PAF IN THE CURRENT SCENARIO

BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT THE BVRM FIELDED IN THE INDIAN MIG-21 BISON WILL SURELY GIVE THEM A DECISIVE EDGE OVER PAF'S F-7PG​

 

[Munir]

Ok, it is official that we are not going to improve the P and PG... The P's will be dumped asap. The PG do not have enough room to be improved. It is all towards the JF17. So looking at the numbers... P's will be gone in the next 3-4 years and after that we can expect the same for our PG's... Who is going to upgrade it if we put all our energy in JF17?

 

[MastanKhan]

BELIEVE ME F-16 WILL NEVER MAKE THEIR WAY TO PAKISTAN
I THINK J-10B(IF IT EXISTS) CAN BE VERY NICE REPLACEMENT IN PLACE OF
NEW F-16s FROM US
BUT STILL I WOULD SAY THAT J-10B CAN'T MATCH F-16 BLOCL60
IN TERMS OF EVERYTHING LIKE
AIR-AIR COMBAT
AIR-GROUND ATTACK
NAVAL ATTACK
AND ALSO IN TERMS OF RADARS ,ENGINES AND PAYLOADS
F-16s ARE FAR MORE SUPERIOR TO J-10

​

Hi,

Suppose--you have an oppurtunity to get into INDY 500------so what would you want to get into it---a system that has been proven for over 30 plus years and has been upgraded and refurbished many atimes to meet the gruel nature of the sport---or a system that is just in its infancy and a power plant that is years away from perfection.

When you induct a system into your armed forces---you consider the threat being posed from your adversary---how VOLATILE the reaction maybe be---and what does the adversary have---

If you look at all that----then truly---all this JF 17 and Fc 20 procurement is leading towards a failure----indeed JF 17 would lead us to be free of any pressure----but the game the we are in---and the treachery that we are dealing with----is like sitting on a keg of powder, that can explode any moment. Our problems are a NOW category problems. We ought to have something now, to get ready to face our tomorrow.

This procurement is based upon the idea that indian army will not attack pakistan and we have all the free time to do whatsoever----that analysis by the pak air force has been flawed---basically---india doesnot have to attack pakistan to achieve its goals---it only has to make threatening troop movements to contain us and keep us bogged down and mired in mud economically and financially.

A strong air force that could compete 80---90 % with iaf---would have been the answer---that is where our failure of understanding the issue has occured.

Our airforce will be somewhat---maybe--- compatible with iaf in around ten years time period---within that ten years time period---we can be suckered into many a devious plots by our enemy---as long as the paf is weak in numbers of bvr compatible and air superiority air craft---pak economy is in doom---pak will have instability in and around its borders---there may be internal instability as well.

Bottomline is---that PAF is more than a flying force for pakistan---it is a maker or breaker of political stability in the sub-continent---its inability to counter iaf and contain the level of threat has created dire consequences for pakistan and pakistan's stability---iaf has gotten to such higher confidence level that they have placed 30 plus air dominance fighters within 20 miles of pakistan's border---put them smack in the face of pakistan---in a I dare you any time any place---looking at the abilities of those aircraft---there was absolutely no need to place them so close to the border---they could have stayed 500 miles away and portrayed the same level of threat---but this right in your face kind of movement is the ultimate 'DARE YOU' that iaf has put forward---. As I have stated many a times---it is not the proficiency or the dedication of our pilots that I doubt ---it is their lack of ability to understand the threat. The paf analysts have not considered their failures to procure what was needed 10 to 15 years ago---.

Rome was not built in a day---and neither will be the paf---but their dependent on inherently unproven systems will bring the doomsday scenario for pakistan. I know very well that our brave pilots will lay down their lives and go down fighting---but in the end---it would result in a futile effort---.

 

[hj786]

Bottomline is---that PAF is more than a flying force for pakistan---it is a maker or breaker of political stability in the sub-continent---its inability to counter iaf and contain the level of threat has created dire consequences for pakistan and pakistan's stability---iaf has gotten to such higher confidence level that they have placed 30 plus air dominance fighters within 20 miles of pakistan's border---put them smack in the face of pakistan---in a I dare you any time any place---looking at the abilities of those aircraft---there was absolutely no need to place them so close to the border---they could have stayed 500 miles away and portrayed the same level of threat---but this right in your face kind of movement is the ultimate 'DARE YOU' that iaf has put forward---.

I see it a different way. They are so wary of PAF's own stand-off strike capability that they have to position their most advanced aircraft right next to the border to have any hope of stopping PAF strikes. But this also plays into the hands of PAF - if PAF can deliver their stand-off weapons fast enough (in a pre-emptive strike for example), they may be able to bag a bunch of InAF's best fighters on the ground.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

Hi,

Suppose--you have an oppurtunity to get into INDY 500------so what would you want to get into it---a system that has been proven for over 30 plus years and has been upgraded and refurbished many atimes to meet the gruel nature of the sport---or a system that is just in its infancy and a power plant that is years away from perfection.

When you induct a system into your armed forces---you consider the threat being posed from your adversary---how VOLATILE the reaction maybe be---and what does the adversary have---

If you look at all that----then truly---all this JF 17 and Fc 20 procurement is leading towards a failure----indeed JF 17 would lead us to be free of any pressure----but the game the we are in---and the treachery that we are dealing with----is like sitting on a keg of powder, that can explode any moment. Our problems are a NOW category problems. We ought to have something now, to get ready to face our tomorrow.

This procurement is based upon the idea that indian army will not attack pakistan and we have all the free time to do whatsoever----that analysis by the pak air force has been flawed---basically---india doesnot have to attack pakistan to achieve its goals---it only has to make threatening troop movements to contain us and keep us bogged down and mired in mud economically and financially.

A strong air force that could compete 80---90 % with iaf---would have been the answer---that is where our failure of understanding the issue has occured.

Our airforce will be somewhat---maybe--- compatible with iaf in around ten years time period---within that ten years time period---we can be suckered into many a devious plots by our enemy---as long as the paf is weak in numbers of bvr compatible and air superiority air craft---pak economy is in doom---pak will have instability in and around its borders---there may be internal instability as well.

Bottomline is---that PAF is more than a flying force for pakistan---it is a maker or breaker of political stability in the sub-continent---its inability to counter iaf and contain the level of threat has created dire consequences for pakistan and pakistan's stability---iaf has gotten to such higher confidence level that they have placed 30 plus air dominance fighters within 20 miles of pakistan's border---put them smack in the face of pakistan---in a I dare you any time any place---looking at the abilities of those aircraft---there was absolutely no need to place them so close to the border---they could have stayed 500 miles away and portrayed the same level of threat---but this right in your face kind of movement is the ultimate 'DARE YOU' that iaf has put forward---. As I have stated many a times---it is not the proficiency or the dedication of our pilots that I doubt ---it is their lack of ability to understand the threat. The paf analysts have not considered their failures to procure what was needed 10 to 15 years ago---.

Rome was not built in a day---and neither will be the paf---but their dependent on inherently unproven systems will bring the doomsday scenario for pakistan. I know very well that our brave pilots will lay down their lives and go down fighting---but in the end---it would result in a futile effort---.

THE SCENARIO WHICH YOU ARE PRESENTING RIGHT NOW IS NOT QUITE DIFFERENT FROM 65 & 71
INFACT IN BOTH WARS
DESPITE BEING SMALL IN BOTH NUMBERS AND TECHNOLOGY
WE ENJOY AIR DOMINANCE OVER OUR ADVERSARY.
I THINK AFTER MLU UPGRADES ,INDUCTION J-10B
AND JF-17(NEARLY 100-150 JETS)
WE CAN GIVE OUR EASTERN FOES SOME QUITE HARD LESSON
BUT YOU ARE RIGHT FOR THIS THING TO HAPPEN WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR ATLEAST 5-10 MORE YEARS​

 

[SBD-3]

THE SCENARIO WHICH YOU ARE PRESENTING RIGHT NOW IS NOT QUITE DIFFERENT FROM 65 & 71
INFACT IN BOTH WARS
DESPITE BEING SMALL IN BOTH NUMBERS AND TECHNOLOGY
WE ENJOY AIR DOMINANCE OVER OUR ADVERSARY.
I THINK AFTER MLU UPGRADES ,INDUCTION J-10B
AND JF-17(NEARLY 100-150 JETS)
WE CAN GIVE OUR EASTERN FOES SOME QUITE HARD LESSON
BUT YOU ARE RIGHT FOR THIS THING TO HAPPEN WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR ATLEAST 5-10 MORE YEARS​

ok firstl, please no more "Centre B I" its preety difficult to read FC-20 JF and Falcons would put PAF on right track but we need to run fast now bacause we have lost a valuable decade.And I think PAF would have also recognized it. dont under estimate IAF we need to design the future now and try to be ahead or at least be at par with IAF in coming future.I still dont know in the face of MCA and Pak Fa why we are banking on JXX? its still a question of may or may not be. Must prepare our own horses rather than riding others

 

[nightrider_saulat]

ok firstl, please no more "Centre B I" its preety difficult to read FC-20 JF and Falcons would put PAF on right track but we need to run fast now bacause we have lost a valuable decade.And I think PAF would have also recognized it. dont under estimate IAF we need to design the future now and try to be ahead or at least be at par with IAF in coming future.I still dont know in the face of MCA and Pak Fa why we are banking on JXX? its still a question of may or may not be. Must prepare our own horses rather than riding others

lo no more center
BUT I AM SORRY TO SAY THAT WE CAN'T MOVE MUCH MORE FASTER THAN THE CURRENT SPEED OF INDUCTING NEW HORSES IN OUR AIR FORCS
WE HAVE TO STILL WAIT TILL 2015-16 TO SEE ANY BETTERMRNT IN OUR AIR FORCE​

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Only fools live with their past glory---there is no similiarity between 65-71 and now---none can live and survive on the past glory and the stories of their grand parents---.

The iaf pilots are better trained---have more flying hours---have better equipment---they are more dedicated---are more eager to lay down their lives for their country just like their counterparts---.


But the problem over is that the anwer to my post is a knee jerk reaction----there are standard replies from pak posters---we will do this and we will do that---we will break their faces---we will break their noses---.

I am talking more about the political repurcussions that we have been facing for the last 7 years---the tragedy becomes a travesty when the young ones force themselves to become believers and think that the illusion is a reality.


NIGHTRIDER-SAULAT----PLEASE KINDLY TYPE IN LOWER CASE---YOU HAVE BEEN YELLING AT THE BOARD SINCE YOU CAME ON BOARD. Thankyou . MK

 

[Trisonics]

Hi,

Only fools live with their past glory---there is no similiarity between 65-71 and now---none can live and survive on the past glory and the stories of their grand parents---.

The iaf pilots are better trained---have more flying hours---have better equipment---they are more dedicated---are more eager to lay down their lives for their country just like their counterparts---.


But the problem over is that the anwer to my post is a knee jerk reaction----there are standard replies from pak posters---we will do this and we will do that---we will break their faces---we will break their noses---.

I am talking more about the political repurcussions that we have been facing for the last 7 years---the tragedy becomes a travesty when the young ones force themselves to become believers and think that the illusion is a reality.


NIGHTRIDER-SAULAT----PLEASE KINDLY TYPE IN LOWER CASE---YOU HAVE BEEN YELLING AT THE BOARD SINCE YOU CAME ON BOARD. Thankyou . MK

Valid points! but the impressive part of the JF17 is not in its ability but the way Pakistan wants to be self sufficient with its own aircraft building capability. India is trying hard but wanted to do everything on its own, which has caused it a lot of delays, but the difference being India has the money and some pretty good foreign relations to look at alternatives when their plan wasn't very successful. PAF needs the same, they need a bunch of capable aircraft may be 100+ MRCAs until the JF17s can be nurtured into a fighter that everybody here wants.
Air Force apart, the biggest sword in Pakistan arsenal is their Missiles! India's plans again being ambitious cost it time and money, while Pakistan may have a slight edge currently, things are going to change in this end too with India's transparency and research in missiles.
India's biggest concern is Pakistan's nuclear missiles and not somuch their airforce and navy. IMHO opinion Pakistan is pulled into a military battle of we need this since India has that and maybe losing its way as it cannot keep up with India's defence buys..It needs to get its priorities right.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

Hi,

Only fools live with their past glory---there is no similiarity between 65-71 and now---none can live and survive on the past glory and the stories of their grand parents---.

The iaf pilots are better trained---have more flying hours---have better equipment---they are more dedicated---are more eager to lay down their lives for their country just like their counterparts---.


But the problem over is that the anwer to my post is a knee jerk reaction----there are standard replies from pak posters---we will do this and we will do that---we will break their faces---we will break their noses---.

I am talking more about the political repurcussions that we have been facing for the last 7 years---the tragedy becomes a travesty when the young ones force themselves to become believers and think that the illusion is a reality.


NIGHTRIDER-SAULAT----PLEASE KINDLY TYPE IN LOWER CASE---YOU HAVE BEEN YELLING AT THE BOARD SINCE YOU CAME ON BOARD. Thankyou . MK

to see the new face of our air force wait till 2015-16
that is all i can say
sir khan

 

[notorious_eagle]

to see the new face of our air force wait till 2015-16
that is all i can say
sir khan

I respect Mastan Sahab but i respectfully disagree with him and i have made it clear in previous discussions too. Our AirForce in its current state is more than capable of defending our airspace. Before the Mumbai fiasco and after the Kargil War the so called Indian analysts were claiming that PAF will just evacuate its planes to Iran and will not even dare engage the IAF. Well guess what, after the Mumbai fiasco PAF moved up majority of its assets near the border in case of any aggression from the Indian side. It were the IAF personnals whom were claiming that PAF fears us, but you didnt hear the same statement from any PAF personnal . The funny part is that the IAF has to tell us that we fear them

 

[Patriot]

Valid points! but the impressive part of the JF17 is not in its ability but the way Pakistan wants to be self sufficient with its own aircraft building capability. India is trying hard but wanted to do everything on its own, which has caused it a lot of delays, but the difference being India has the money and some pretty good foreign relations to look at alternatives when their plan wasn't very successful. PAF needs the same, they need a bunch of capable aircraft may be 100+ MRCAs until the JF17s can be nurtured into a fighter that everybody here wants.
Air Force apart, the biggest sword in Pakistan arsenal is their Missiles! India's plans again being ambitious cost it time and money, while Pakistan may have a slight edge currently, things are going to change in this end too with India's transparency and research in missiles.
India's biggest concern is Pakistan's nuclear missiles and not somuch their airforce and navy. IMHO opinion Pakistan is pulled into a military battle of we need this since India has that and maybe losing its way as it cannot keep up with India's defence buys..It needs to get its priorities right.

We buy what is required for deterance..we have credible detterance which is why India did not attack after Mumbai Attacks...Unlike India who wants to buy everything China has and project more power then China..Pakistan is on defensive and not on offensive.Trust me your diplomats would not bark about F16 sale to Pakistan everywhere if our air force was not a concern for India.