Could BD deploy air defence destroyer in rivers?

[UKBengali]

Just buy long range land based SAM systems.

Due to lack of space/BD geography, they would
almost certainly have to be at static locations.
The enemy would know where to hit in advance.

With a ship it could be anywhere in BD within a major river like Padma and also could be used normally in the sea.

I am thinking that the ship/s would only enter BD mainland in times of crisis.

 

[Arthur]

Due to lack of space/BD geography, they would
almost certainly have to be at static locations.
The enemy would know where to hit in advance.

With a ship it could be anywhere in BD within a major river like Padma and also could be used normally in the sea.

I am thinking that the ship/s would only enter BD mainland in times of crisis.

No my friend, Even in "almost static" situation it would be hard to hit them. It's not as easy as you think. These land based systems comes with their own defensive systems to protect them form ballastic, cruising and low altitude threats.

A river based air dedefense system would be more static even compared to the land based system.

 

[UKBengali]

No my friend, Even in "almost static" situation it would be hard to hit them. It's not as easy as you think. These land based systems comes with their own defensive systems to protect them form ballastic, cruising and low altitude threats.

A river based air dedefense system would be more static even compared to the land based system.

I am not saying a land based system cannot be defended but you must consider that due you space/geography, it cannot be moved much. Yes you can move the radar/missiles within the base that houses it but it cannot really be moved at will across the BD countryside. There is the possibility of deploying them in some of the small amounts of forest north of Dhaka but I am not sure how that would work out in practice.

 

[Arthur]

I am not saying a land based system cannot be defended but you must consider that due you space/geography, it cannot be moved much. Yes you can move the radar/missiles within the base that houses it but it cannot really be moved at will across the BD countryside. There is the possibility of deploying them in some of the small amounts of forest north of Dhaka but I am not sure how that would work out in practice.

But those systems actually don't need a permanent base either. You can deploy them to points where they give you the most strategic and defensive coverage. And those points can be many in number. It's like a shuffling game, though you are shuffling an exact number of cards,in a limited spac, it's not easy to find the exact card that you were asked to dig out!

 

[UKBengali]

But those systems actually don't need a permanent base either. You can deploy them to points where they give you the most strategic and defensive coverage. And those points can be many in number. It's like a shuffling game, though you are shuffling an exact number of cards,in a limited spac, it's not easy to find the exact card that you were asked to dig out!

Yes, in peacetime you can move these systems anywhere in BD.

What I am talking about is that in times of crisis/imminent war, then the SAMs will be pretty much stuck within the confines of the base they are located.

There are of course issues with a destroyer cruising a major river as the path of the river is well known, but at least even in times of crisis the destroyer would be moving tens of miles every hour. This would make targeting it with a missile/ airstrike harder than with a standard SAM system.

Idea may seem a bit far-fetched but no-one has yet come up with a definite technical no-no yet as far as I can see.

If you can explain a technical reason why the idea definitely would not work, then I would of course be keen to hear it.

 

[Nilgiri]

Thank you for the reply.

In that case, can the destroyer just turn off it's radar and rely on information from ground radar and AWACs
aircraft to provide search and targeting information for it's SAMs?

Thats a terrible use of an ADS.....just its weapon system with its main hardware turned off?

Dude just give up this theory and thank yourself that you are not actually in control of BD navy now or in future.

I don't think since the US civil war have I heard of capital ships having full fledged river deployment.

Heck even the graf spree was contained just to the mouth of the plata by the brits.

@The Sandman

 

[The Sandman]

Heck even the graf spree was contained just to the mouth of the plata by the brits.

But after putting up a fierce fight.

 

[UKBengali]

Thats a terrible use of an ADS.....just its weapon system with its main hardware turned off?

Dude just give up this theory and thank yourself that you are not actually in control of BD navy now or in future.

I don't think since the US civil war have I heard of capital ships having full fledged river deployment.

Heck even the graf spree was contained just to the mouth of the plata by the brits.

@The Sandman

Why should I as no-one has yet given a technical reason why it won't work? Maybe apart from you about changing radar algorithms to handle targets over land but that may be not a show-stopper.

BD geography is pretty unique as you may be aware so the fact that this has never been done before means nothing.

Gambit said something along the lines of fighter planes waiting to pounce on the radar signals that it emits. Well this destroyer won't be a lone ranger as it will also be protected by land based SAMs and fighters. It could also get it's tracking and firing solutions from an overhead AWACS aircraft.

Like I say if someone can give a technical reason why it won't work, then fair enough. Just saying it is crazy idea as no-one has ever done it before is not good enough. A lot of great things in the past have come from people who got laughed at when they suggested something against the prevailing thought pattern at the time.

 

[Nilgiri]

Why should I as no-one has yet given a technical reason why it won't work?

Are you really so blind?

All the vulnerabilities pointed out (by gambit, penguin and others) stem from what I was initially saying given the sea clutter to ground clutter optimisation.

In a standard saturation attack, the performance of a river-straddled ADS would be next to a sitting duck....because of this unless you get the Chinese to completely redesign their ADS to be a ground clutter based defense ship....which means you will probably be spending close to a couple billion (or more) for each of these and it would still probably seriously suck at handling a few million dollars worth of LACM thrown at it given its hemmed in by river banks and a predictable river velocity.

Thats as technical as its going to get for the likes of you (without completely confusing you as to what alpha and grazing angles are regarding clutter opimisation and their effect on radar architecture from the ground up).

If you are still going to be this daft, we can only hope that BD navy personnel dont share this feature.

Take it from all the reasoned voices that have posted here.....its a stupid idea.....and it would be pretty stupid for BD to get an ADS in the first place when its navy is so negligible....even at 2030.

A standard C4I based land based mobile SAM network is magnitudes better in delivery/cost than a ADS ever will be in a river. You don't use a sledgehammer to handle delicate glass.

 

[UKBengali]

Are you really so blind?

All the vulnerabilities pointed out (by gambit, penguin and others) stem from what I was initially saying given the sea clutter to ground clutter optimisation.

In a standard saturation attack, the performance of a river-straddled ADS would be next to a sitting duck....because of this unless you get the Chinese to completely redesign their ADS to be a ground clutter based defense ship....which means you will probably be spending close to a couple billion (or more) for each of these and it would still probably seriously suck at handling a few million dollars worth of LACM thrown at it given its hemmed in by river banks and a predictable river velocity.

Thats as technical as its going to get for the likes of you (without completely confusing you as to what alpha and grazing angles are regarding clutter opimisation and their effect on radar architecture from the ground up).

If you are still going to be this daft, we can only hope that BD navy personnel dont share this feature.

Take it from all the reasoned voices that have posted here.....its a stupid idea.....and it would be pretty stupid for BD to get an ADS in the first place when its navy is so negligible....even at 2030.

A standard C4I based land based mobile SAM network is magnitudes better in delivery/cost than a ADS ever will be in a river. You don't use a sledgehammer to handle delicate glass.

Calm down dude as this is only an idea.

There may be some merit in some kind of river based air-defence system, even if we do not use
an actual air-defence destroyer for the purpose.

I admit I don't know enough about the technicalities to make an informed decision but I hope
BD military at least gives something like this a technical feasibility study.

 

[Nilgiri]

Calm down dude as this is only an idea.

There may be some merit in some kind of river based air-defence system, even if we do not use
an actual air-defence destroyer for the purpose.

I admit I don't know enough about the technicalities to make an informed decision but I hope
BD military at least gives something like this a technical feasibility study.

Yup they should also spend some years doing a feasibility study on using a 5th generation fighter on the ground (stationary or taxiing) as a ground to air launcher (i.e pipe dream acquisitions used in ways beyond their fundamental role) as well.

Or how to ground an advanced SSK submarine someone makes so it can be a land-based torpedo and cruise missile launcher.....instead of developing a solid perisher course (if you even know what that means).

Good use of time and resources....this line of thinking must be encouraged by BD people like yourself.

 

[UKBengali]

Yup they should also spend some years doing a feasibility study on using a 5th generation fighter on the ground (stationary or taxiing) as a ground to air launcher (i.e pipe dream acquisitions used in ways beyond their fundamental role) as well.

Or how to ground an advanced SSK submarine someone makes so it can be a land-based torpedo and cruise missile launcher.....instead of developing a solid perisher course (if you even know what that means).

Good use of time and resources....this line of thinking must be encouraged by BD people like yourself.

Seriously why you care?

If BD spends a few millions looking at river-based air-defence systems, then that is up to
BD and of no concern to India or Indians.

I think half the reasons Indians want to rubbish anything BD defence related is that they want a weak
country they can bully.

 

[Nilgiri]

I think half the reasons Indians want to rubbish anything BD defence related is that they want a weak
country they can bully.

We already have that. Mission accomplished. Can do a poll on this forum asking that very question.

Overcoming that by force plan 2030 is a funny pipe dream. But if it gives you solace, who are we to deny that?

Anyway tag me when someone thats actually worthy backs this "proposal" of yours regarding a river based air defence destroyer.

 

[Hasan89]

I am not sure why Bangladeshis harp up on a hypothetical scenario. India and Bangladesh wont be going to war. Period.

Nothing is certain in life except death. India could well back-stab BD some stage (being an ally of the Yahudis, that India is). BD must be prepared and build good friendships with China and Pakistan.
If in case India attack BD, THEN BD with the help of China and Pakistan take out three corners of India could be destroyed. And then, BD can claim Tripura, Mizoram, Assam, all 7sisters . China can claim Ladakh and what they want. Pakistan take whole of Kashmir.

 

[Nilgiri]

Nothing is certain in life except death. India could well back-stab BD some stage (being an ally of the Yahudis, that India is). BD must be prepared and build good friendships with China and Pakistan.
If in case India attack BD, THEN BD with the help of China and Pakistan take out three corners of India could be destroyed. And then, BD can claim Tripura, Mizoram, Assam, all 7sisters . China can claim Ladakh and what they want. Pakistan take whole of Kashmir.

Those evil yahudis again. What is your strange obsession with them? Some jewish guy fired you or something?

@500 @Solomon2