Corruption jumps 400% in Pakistan in 3 years: Report

[fatman17]

in india it is the bureaucracy that is the most corrupt followed by the netas and then the legislature....
what are the corresponding rankings in pakistan?

police!
establishment!(military/bureaucracy)
politicians!

whats left!

 

[Rafael]

^^^ Each and every individual of the nation is corrupt in one or the other way, Some dont pay taxes, some charge high prices, some steal electricity, some depend on safarishs for their job.

Even a jalaibi wala sitting at the corner of the chowk is corrupt, charges more If given oppurtunity..

 

[zubair723]

Corruption has been 'instituionalized' in PAKISTAN. Every law is made to facilitate the corrupt. Let me give one example regarding ROAD CONSTRUCTIONS. The ROAD tenders procedure involve the first step in which the related organization fixes an 'upper ceiling price', i-e all bidders have to qoute lower then this price & the tender is alloted to the lowest bidder.
Now what happens is that if you know that a GOOD QUALITY ROAD will COST e.g Rs.100 per sq.m , the 'upper ceiling price is set to Rs.90. Hence no honest company can enter the bid. The Bid normally closes at Rs.70. 14~15% is the agreed kickbacks & commissions .hence we can all judge what can be the outcome.

 

[qsaark]

police!
establishment!(military/bureaucracy)
politicians!

whats left!

Education especially heigher education. Places like HEJ Research Institute of Chemistry, NIBGE etc. only God knows or the people who work there how research grant money is misused. I have worked (or rather wasted my time) for alomst three years in HEJ.

 

[pak-marine]

You are dumb then i actually thought.


"Controlling", how exactly do you define this 'control'. If we go by your sense, you tomorrow might also suggest that the military shouldn't also be 'controlling' its ration as it it also constitutes 'non-border-defending-activity', then you might also suggest that the the military should also not 'control' its accounts as it might also hinder its defence capacity-i am referring to the CMA (Controler of Military Accounts here). What about the MES (military engg services) its also 'controlled' DIRECTLY by the SERVING Army Officers, so shouldnt we even let go it MES rather everything and just take the pay and sit at borders.

you havent even read the my post i refered to DHA and other commercial activities not CMA ,MEH them depts are to do with military!! By Controlling i am refering to active army servicemen performing functions like dealing with all aspects of planning organising and staffing of loads of commercial activities examples are: DHA / Askari bank + a lot more!! and do yourself a favour try not asume things please , all i am saying is Armed forces should be out of commercial businesses ( excluding defence) completly.


You think the organizers, constitution and system planners were dumb and you are smarter.

no i dont think that ,you are wrong in your assumption here ! , i am only saying civilians i.e the parliament should actually organise , plan and controll. If army does it than there is a conflict of interest.

Why should they? Oh yes by the way the defence minister is a CIVILIAN, if you missed that, and the men that fall under his domain are uniformed. It is exactly the same thing that happens when the military 'runs' the commercial business, the patrons are in uniform but the business is run by civilians, just civilians, with a sprinkle of uniformed men whose presence is symbolic actually.

yes thats the way it should be Army should remain under civilians ! and yes as you state "exactly the same whn millitary runs business"" is wrong and it shouldnt be like that and FYI thats one of the fundamental issues we have in our country.


In short what i am trying to hammer in your head is that the military personnel DOES NOT run the business you are accusing them of. Its like if tomorrow Shell Pakistan is headed by retired IG Police then you might also accuse the entire police department of 'running' and 'controlling' Shell Pakistan

lol ! dude you not only lack info but your speech here represents your ignorant mind frame and you are arguing to your self here ...
! above para u said "" exactly same happens when army runs commercial activites""... now you are hammering in my head that Army personal do not run businesses , i will suggest you do your self a favour and get your facts straight or let me know if you want me to increase your general knowledge !?

And yes they are doing it better than ever. Since ever!
Tell me when Askari bank would stop the military from fighting india or talibans.

u said army do not run commercial activity & now u are saying how would running askari bank would stop military fight indians or taliban !! what exactly are you saying ??? lol .... dear stop contradicting yourself again and again.



NO i repeat NO army personnel is directly involved in teh commercial stuff, majority even dosnt know what all departments are there that the military has to its name. There is a very clear de-link between the two. Yes i would but you concern if i being in the military was sitting at a petrol pump as its manager

again the same thing LOL .... DHA/ Askari bank + a lot more oraganisation are owned run and managed by army , yes you are right in saying majority doesnt know as the sepahi new and junior officers are busy fighting its cause of them we exist ... they are our bravehearts the problems are with the high ranking officials and old ex general khapars every body knows that.

 

[BATMAN]

Majority of (60%) Respondents feel that Government /Armed forces should not be involved in commercial activities

Why?


Cuz Armed forces are supposed to be securing borders and dealing with the defence of the country ..... ! if armed forces involves in comercial activities than it leads to corruption and so on!

Now the results are begin to pop up.

It proves that Pak military produce results what ever job they under take.

Sharif requested army to help preventing Pakistan to go bankrupt, they only checked the corruption and results started to begin.

Later the army man became CEO and we saw the even better results.
As bein gthe share holder of the Pakistan state, I strongly wish that state affairs be managed by Pak army.

 

[BATMAN]

^^^ Each and every individual of the nation is corrupt in one or the other way, Some dont pay taxes, some charge high prices, some steal electricity, some depend on safarishs for their job.

Even a jalaibi wala sitting at the corner of the chowk is corrupt, charges more If given oppurtunity..

This is new phenomenan and this is why we are discussing it today and not 3 years ago!
This is one dimension of the multi dimentional assault lead by indians against Pakistan.
Imagine the President of Pakistan is a well known corrupt person. There was hardly any industry in Pakistan from whom he did not demanded his cut.
In todays Pakistan only politicians are getting richer and common man is becoming poorer and during past years common man has experienced lot of prosperit with percapita income touching 2000USD and today economy of Pakistan is dependednt on IMF aid which is distributed to those who co-operate with RAW elements in Pakistan.
You should know better.... don't you?

 

[pak-marine]

Majority of (60%) Respondents feel that Government /Armed forces should not be involved in commercial activities


Now the results are begin to pop up.

It proves that Pak military produce results what ever job they under take.

Sharif requested army to help preventing Pakistan to go bankrupt, they only checked the corruption and results started to begin.

Later the army man became CEO and we saw the even better results.
As bein gthe share holder of the Pakistan state, I strongly wish that state affairs be managed by Pak army.

In 60years i.e from yahya khan to musharaf ....Pak has been mostly under army's rule ................ the unrest and threats we have today is that what you call a better result ?

 

[qsaark]

Now the results are begin to pop up.

It proves that Pak military produce results what ever job they under take.

Sharif requested army to help preventing Pakistan to go bankrupt, they only checked the corruption and results started to begin.

Later the army man became CEO and we saw the even better results.
As bein gthe share holder of the Pakistan state, I strongly wish that state affairs be managed by Pak army.

Lets see the report says corruption soared to 400% in LAST THREE YEARS. When was Musharraf succeeded by Zardari? SEPTEMBER 6, 2008. What was date of the article? JUNE 17, 2009. For how long Zardari's government is in place? FOR LESS THAN A YEAR. Reports talk about THREE years, Zardari is in power for less than ONE year. Who was ruling for MORE THAN TWO YEARS during which corruption soared? Musharraf. Army personnel were deputed in every civilian department and what got improved in departments like WAPDA, KESC, PTCL? Do you read news papers?

 

[pak-marine]

No one is questioning Military's capabilities its a one of the worlds most organised and profesional force , they can kick enemies *** ..... and are the defending champs .. there is no doubt in anyones mind !!! but when it comes to civilians and businesses the army shouldnt interfere and should halt all its commercial activities completly. Once armed forces are full time into what they do best ""Defence"" Pakistan will become the most progresive state.

 

[BATMAN]

Lets see the report says corruption soared to 400% in LAST THREE YEARS. When was Musharraf succeeded by Zardari? SEPTEMBER 6, 2008. What was date of the article? JUNE 17, 2009. For how long Zardari's government is in place? FOR LESS THAN A YEAR. Reports talk about THREE years, Zardari is in power for less than ONE year. Who was ruling for MORE THAN TWO YEARS during which corruption soared? Musharraf. Army personnel were deputed in every civilian department and what got improved in departments like WAPDA, KESC, PTCL? Do you read news papers?

First of all don't make it a personal, i have only granted this liberty to indians... and you are not one of them! do you?

I read more news than you! does this answer your question?

We all read more news than you that is why we remember very
clearly when society started to get corrupt.
It all started with media and judiciary, because Musharraf put Dick cheny and US approach to Pakistan in bad light.

 

[Xeric]

you havent even read the my post i refered to DHA and other commercial activities not CMA ,MEH them depts are to do with military!! By Controlling i am refering to active army servicemen performing functions like dealing with all aspects of planning organising and staffing of loads of commercial activities examples are: DHA / Askari bank + a lot more!! and do yourself a favour try not asume things please , all i am saying is Armed forces should be out of commercial businesses ( excluding defence) completely

Again dear you are just fooling around!
Since when DHA started having ‘serving’ officers in its hierarchy?

Yes ultimately everything Army runs comes under one of its Directorate at GHQ, and you may find one odd ‘serving’ officer that too for a limited duration just to get the things done as per the Army’s requirement. For example you may find an Officer from Engineer to counter check the blueprints as he himself is an Civil Engineer and definitely the Army would require that its ‘commercial business’ is run according to Army’s plan rather than any others. There is NO, I say again NO ‘serving officer’ representation what so ever in the commercial stuff, now if you just want to live in fool’s paradise and not adhere to the facts it’s up you!

no i dont think that ,you are wrong in your assumption here ! , i am only saying civilians i.e the parliament should actually organise , plan and controll. If army does it than there is a conflict of interest.

Parliament to plan what? Operation rah-e-rast?

yes thats the way it should be Army should remain under civilians ! and yes as you state
Are you haunted by your intuitions or is something to do with your ever oscillating mind? Why can’t you stay on one topic? Whether the Army is under the civilians is a separate debate, let’s keep it for some other time, meanwhile you better concentrate on Army’s ‘grand’ commercial business!

lol ! dude you not only lack info but your speech here represents your ignorant mind frame and you are arguing to your self here ...
You totally miss the points and then accuse me of not making you understand, voila!

again the same thing LOL .... DHA/ Askari bank + a lot more oraganisation are owned run and managed by army , yes you are right in saying majority doesnt know as the sepahi new and junior officers are busy fighting its cause of them we exist ... they are our bravehearts the problems are with the high ranking officials and old ex general khapars every body knows that.
u said army do not run commercial activity & now u are saying how would running askari bank would stop military fight indians or taliban !! what exactly are you saying ??? lol .... dear stop contradicting yourself again and again.

Hey! listen to me once and for all, the pain that your weak heart initially felt was that ‘why does the Army runs commercial business, when this thing was amply clarified to you through various articles that I have quoted you shifted to accuse the Army OFFICERS of ‘running’ these businesses themselves! Now when this doubt, misunderstanding and fantasy of yours was also taken to task by telling you repeatedly that NO Army officer except a few dedicated people at the top slot, who actually patronize the entire thing, is involved directly into this business thingy, you again shifted your stance and drifted towards another topic and accused me of contradicting myself!
Now the problem is that your dumb brain is unable to differentiate between the fact that the ‘Army’ running the business and Army ‘Officer’ running the business are totally two different things, moreover, you are again facing difficulty to comprehend that YES the Army , the Army I said the Army as and institution runs many business which are not HIDDEN, are open to criticism, are auditable, legal, documented, pay tax, and primarily are meant for the welfare of RETIRED military personnel! Now if you want to rant about it again and again that why does the Army runs this commercial stuff you are welcome to do so as it is not going to change as it is in NO way hindering anything, any person, any institution of this country in ANY WAY!

 

[Khalids]

Army personnel were deputed in every civilian department and what got improved in departments like WAPDA, KESC, PTCL? Do you read news papers?

No one is going to answer this, I bet.

 

[Xeric]

No one is questioning Military's capabilities

Yes you cant, as there is no doubt in military's capability of any sort, so just please stop repeating 'universal truths'

its a one of the worlds most organised and profesional force , they can kick enemies *** ..... and are the defending champs .. there is no doubt in anyones mind !!!

Thnks again, refer above for a complete reply!

but when it comes to civilians and businesses the army shouldnt interfere

Interfere? How?
Did the military asked CEO of Mobilik to hand over the charge so that an army General can run that company?

No if you are talking about the appointment of RETIRED army officers in the private sector, then dude you need to understand the servic cum retirenent age cum military officer's capability cum requiremnemt of private firm dynamics, but i cant give it to you now as you uptake is obstrated by your biased brain. All the Army officers who retire before the age of 60 are abosrbed in the private sector, so? What's wrong with it? The retirement age in OPakistan is 60 and anyone can do a job till that age, no matter how many times he has been 'retire' previously, and ofcourse the military dude who retired before the actual retirement age i.e. 60 has to work as he is still capable of working and has all the needs to be fulfilled as any other civilain of his age. Officers join the Army usually at the age of 18-20, 2 years in PMA by 20-22 they are officers and another 25 (maximum, most go home before that) years till his retire as a Major (most/bulk of the oficer), so 45-47 is the normal retirement age, so do you want them to sit, watch tv and read news paper? A Major who retires at the age of 40 would be having his kids around 15-18 years, so now you want that major to pay for his childrern's schooling/college/higer studies from his pension? Lovelu isnt it?

BTW, why dont you suggest all the private companies to the various multi-national comapnies in Pakistan to STOP recruuiting retired Army officers, who by the way prefer them you to their experience, man management skill and motivation/dedication to work. Let's see how many listen to you!

As for the generals sitting at top slots in the private sector: Yes a fw of them are debatable as they may have been fitted in by Mush and many other, but majority is again there at its own. Though i missed to mention that Mush still claims that those appointments were on merit basis, but its another topic an i dont want my already ruined thread to me ruined any more.

BTW, i can give you the example of Pak Steel who was in loss since long and the Army dude brought it back as the most profitable mill. People were not ready to take charge of Pak Steel when that Lt Col was appointed there.

and should halt all its commercial activities completly.

Why should it?
Does it hinder Army's fighting capability? NO

Does it hurts country's economy? NO

Does it adds in unemployment or lowers it? It reduces the unemployment rate actually.

Does it stop other companies to 'proper'? NO

Is it not paying the taxes? Yes it always ahs been.

Does the profit of these companies being used in 'unwanted; activities? No they are audit able and registered and are completely transparent as any other commercial outlets!

So why would it bother you Excellency's brains, actually? Just for the sake of it i guess.

Once armed forces are full time into what they do best ""Defence""

Lolz... here;s lies the fault, you again need to understand that these commercial activities are in no way 'stopping' the Army to do its primary job as it has dedicated people (civilians) to do the job for the military. Now if you think that if one general who just overlook these commercial activities (which actually is symbolic) can jeopardize the Army's fighting capability you need to see the doc again!

 

[Xeric]

No one is going to answer this, I bet.

Another hard pressed? Ok no probs.
-----
Well would you like to define deputed?

If a few men (who are not placed at the executive level) could have changed the things, then no one would have worried about anything.

Pak Steel was headed by an Armyman and it has showed clear improvement. You give WAPDA or KESC to Army and see the things change yourself.

For your kind info, deputations are not made to RUN the companies it is a way to interact and expand inter-organization relations and experience. One Army officer is always deputed to Pak Steel so is he there to 'change' Pak Steel?

And BTW, Army personnel were not 'deputed' to these organization they were sent there to 'monitor', which they did till the time they remained there.

One more thing since when PTCL got Army people deputed to itself?

Lastly things have been always better when ever something had been related to the military, if you dont know is then i can just name it as ignorance!