Controlling Space Launch Technology Exports

[prototype]

y wud russia transfer such classified technology to india in the first place knowing that india could hamper russias future market regarding cheap space launches..its quite a critical technology possessed by only a few countries..and the question is why would india even invest on developing the tech if they had ToT..and if indians really have reverse engineered,then y isnt russia raisin a brow?
->either India got the tech through development or
->India bought the tech...i dont see anything illegal in it unlike our neighbours copying and reverse engineering tech!!

no need to provide reasons frnd we all know it

these guys just want some troll,actually they r jeleous

 

[faithfulguy]

not copied but produced with russian help

copied - illegal
JV- LEGAL

There must be some reason that US pressured Russia not to provide India with such asstance. That could be a reason that the recent test failed. As Russians are not helping any more.

So India does have a engine but it had never successfully launched. Is that correct as the last test was the first time India tried to launch a rocket with its own engine. Please correct if I had misread.

 

[genetic_nomad]

There must be some reason that US pressured Russia not to provide India with such asstance. That could be a reason that the recent test failed. As Russians are not helping any more.

So India does have a engine but it had never successfully launched. Is that correct as the last test was the first time India tried to launch a rocket with its own engine. Please correct if I had misread.

looks like that bro. hopefully ISRO can iron out the issues so the cryo engine can be used going forward.

as for U.S. policy for russian tech assistance to India, it's of little consequence at this point. I'd prefer to focus on what is gonna happen next in our space program.

 

[Ecstacy]

The most recent satellite launch is not the first GSLV launch for India.There has been such launches before,using foreign -made engines.This one was particularly important,as it was using an indegeneously developed cryogenic engine,which resulted in a failure.Its cutting edge technology we r talking about here.I think except France,no other country got it correct the first time.i may be wrong in the last part.please correct me if im wrong.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

y wud russia transfer such classified technology to india in the first place knowing that india could hamper russias future market regarding cheap space launches..its quite a critical technology possessed by only a few countries..and the question is why would india even invest on developing the tech if they had ToT..and if indians really have reverse engineered,then y isnt russia raisin a brow?
->either India got the tech through development or
->India bought the tech...i dont see anything illegal in it unlike our neighbours copying and reverse engineering tech!!

Only you are raising a brow.

Military relations are sensitive, controversial and hence are subject to official and unofficial censorship as well as restrictions.

India and Russia have a very strong ties and they can cooperate without giving much attention to the world.

 

[faithfulguy]

The most recent satellite launch is not the first GSLV launch for India.There has been such launches before,using foreign -made engines.This one was particularly important,as it was using an indegeneously developed cryogenic engine,which resulted in a failure.Its cutting edge technology we r talking about here.I think except France,no other country got it correct the first time.i may be wrong in the last part.please correct me if im wrong.

I do not believe this is a cutting edge technology as US already had them back in the 1960s. I believe USSR had them in the 60s as well. China, Japan and France had them by the early 1980s. So this actually an almost 50 year old technology. This is equivalent of saying that thermonuclear technology is cutting edge back in the late 90s when US had one in early 50s and all the P5 had them within 20 years of when US had one.

 

[toxic_pus]

From all indication, Indian cryogenic engine is heavily based on Russian KVD-1 engines. (Two of these engines were actually purchased by India along with production ToT in early 90s and five more, without ToT, in early 2000) Before the embargo on Russia and India became effective, several design blueprints were indeed transferred to India under the technology transfer contract. Several Indian engineers were also undergoing training in Russia in connection with such transfer of technology. Once the embargo was slapped, everything stopped. How much of such technology was transferred is still a matter of speculation although there seems to be a unanimous agreement that certain key technologies were not transferred. These were regarding making of special alloys, insulation, pumps etc.

Among other things, key to the cryogenic engine is the ability to maintain oxygen and hydrogen (the propellants) in a constant liquid state (Oxygen boils at -182° C and hydrogen boils at - 253° C). These special alloys and insulations are needed to do just that. The pumps are also unique in the sense that they had to maintain the flow of LOX and LH2 in the vacuum of space (according to ISRO report it is the pump that failed and therefore cut off the flow of propellant eventually choking the engine). All of these key components had to be developed in-house with no help from anyone and it took nearly one and half decade to do that.

Credit should be given where it is due. At the same time acknowledgement should be made of Russian ToT, however incomplete it was.

 

[holysaturn]

I do not believe this is a cutting edge technology as US already had them back in the 1960s. I believe USSR had them in the 60s as well. China, Japan and France had them by the early 1980s. So this actually an almost 50 year old technology. This is equivalent of saying that thermonuclear technology is cutting edge back in the late 90s when US had one in early 50s and all the P5 had them within 20 years of when US had one.

china tested it in 1984,ussr in 1987..........cryo tech evolves,jet engines hav been in service since 1950's so china or pakistan must hav easily made it............the point is tech from 1970's does not suit ur present needs,isro found the russian cryos not meeting desirede standards.

Meanwhile, the Russians had supplied ISRO with seven ready-to-fly stages. But their 11D56 cryogenic engine had not flown before and the Indians faced some unpleasant surprises.

The first was that the Russian-supplied stages turned out to be heavier than expected. In order to carry the extra load, it is learnt, the Russians increased the maximum thrust that the 11D56 engine was capable of — from 7.5 tonnes to a little over eight tonnes. The engine operates at the higher thrust for only part of the duration of its flight. The Indian engine too had to be tested and made to work at the higher thrust level. Moreover, the Indian stage is lighter than the Russian one.
The Hindu : Opinion / Leader Page Articles : The long road to cryogenic technology

 

[CONNAN]

There must be some reason that US pressured Russia not to provide India with such asstance. That could be a reason that the recent test failed. As Russians are not helping any more.

So India does have a engine but it had never successfully launched. Is that correct as the last test was the first time India tried to launch a rocket with its own engine. Please correct if I had misread.

well it helps us to build our own engine if not know it will be tommrrow

 

[RiazHaq]

By all indications, it appears that it was a Russian cryo stage with Indian assembly that failed to ignite correctly, sending it hurtling into the sea.

http://beta.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/article399411.ece

 

[gowthamraj]

By all indications, it appears that it was a Russian cryo stage with Indian assembly that failed to ignite correctly, sending it hurtling into the sea.

The Hindu : Sci-Tech / Science : Why didn't the cryogenic engine ignite?

where did the article states that it have russian cryo stage . . lol. .

 

[Indian_Idol]

There must be some reason that US pressured Russia not to provide India with such asstance. That could be a reason that the recent test failed. As Russians are not helping any more.

So India does have a engine but it had never successfully launched. Is that correct as the last test was the first time India tried to launch a rocket with its own engine. Please correct if I had misread.

there is nothing wrong with the Cryogenic engine. the supply valve for the vernier engines got jammed. BTW the cryogenic engine got ignited without proper functioning of vernier engines the rocket went into a spin and fell on the ocean.I dont think the jam has nothing to do with US pressure to Russia.

US pressures Russia or not , it has nothing to do with our INDIGENOUS cryogenic engine...

 

[faithfulguy]

Meanwhile, the Russians had supplied ISRO with seven ready-to-fly stages. But their 11D56 cryogenic engine had not flown before and the Indians faced some unpleasant surprises.

The first was that the Russian-supplied stages turned out to be heavier than expected. In order to carry the extra load, it is learnt, the Russians increased the maximum thrust that the 11D56 engine was capable of — from 7.5 tonnes to a little over eight tonnes. The engine operates at the higher thrust for only part of the duration of its flight. The Indian engine too had to be tested and made to work at the higher thrust level. Moreover, the Indian stage is lighter than the Russian one.
The Hindu : Opinion / Leader Page Articles : The long road to cryogenic technology

Why were Russians supplied ISRO with faulty stuff. In my own opinion, Russians were deliberating sabataging Indian space effort by giving India bad engine design. Americans were trying to help India out by telling Russians to stop messing around with ISRO. As a result, India can independently and quietly develop its own system without Russians supplying faulty components to mess up Indian developlment.

 

[faithfulguy]

there is nothing wrong with the Cryogenic engine. the supply valve for the vernier engines got jammed. BTW the cryogenic engine got ignited without proper functioning of vernier engines the rocket went into a spin and fell on the ocean.I dont think the jam has nothing to do with US pressure to Russia.

US pressures Russia or not , it has nothing to do with our INDIGENOUS cryogenic engine...

As I mentioned earlier, US helped India out. Next time, make sure they use good valve. Valve are important. Without good valves, your heart would stop beating.

 

[Indian_Idol]

By all indications, it appears that it was a Russian cryo stage with Indian assembly that failed to ignite correctly, sending it hurtling into the sea.

The Hindu : Sci-Tech / Science : Why didn't the cryogenic engine ignite?

Indigenous cryogenic engine didn't fail to ignite: scientists

Senior Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) scientists, who met at the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre in Thiruvananthapuram to examine the reasons for the failure of the GSLV-D3 mission with indigenous cryogenic upper stage, on Sunday ascertained that contrary to initial reports the cryogenic stage had doubtless ignited in the vacuum of the space.

After deliberating on the performance parameters of the cryogenic stage (the third stage) of the unsuccessful GSLV development flight last Thursday, they concluded that the mission failed after the fuel turbo pump that supplied fuel to the cryogenic engine had stopped working a second after ignition. ISRO Chairman K. Radhakrishnan chaired the two-day meeting.

“The data clearly shows that combustion [of the cryogenic engine fuel, liquid hydrogen at minus 253 degree Celsius, and the oxidiser, liquid oxygen at minus 183 degree Celsius] had indeed taken place. The rocket's acceleration had increased for a second before it drifted off the designated flight path. Indications are that the turbine that powered the fuel turbo pump had somehow failed. [The propellants are pumped using turbo pumps running around 4,000 rpm.] There could be various reasons for its failure,” a senior ISRO scientist told The Hindu.

The ISRO will now constitute a ‘Failure Analysis Committee' to close in on the exact reason for the failure. It will come out with its report by May end, following which the national experts' panel, constituted to review and give clearance to the GSLV-D3 mission, will examine the report. Dr. Radhakrishnan will brief Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Tuesday on what had gone wrong with GSLV-D3.

The Hindu : Sci-Tech / Technology : Indigenous cryogenic engine didn't fail to ignite: scientists