FaujHistorian
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Consquences of military operation in North waziristan
- Thread starter Marwat Khan Lodhi
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Rain
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Lets deal with common people not only with Tribal Leaders only. These maliks are reknowned for their greed and cheatings.
FaujHistorian
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Well said. Common people tend to bear the brunt of bad stuff from both sides.
Secur
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You cant even control the majority parts of Afghanistan which are still under Taliban and other warlords control , your presidential Govt cant even dictate its writ in the areas it controls and you are here trying to teach us , how to take care of this menace
What has the world come to ?
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I don’t give a fig what Afghanis and other non-Pakistanis think about this problem. As far as I am concerned it is up to Afghanis what they want in their country. If Afghans like Mullah Omer; they can have him, instead if they would like to elect Karzai’s brother, they are also welcome.
My concern is my country. Even though I live abroad, my brother, my uncles and my cousins still live in Karachi, Lahore and Sargodha. My in laws also live in Pakistan. Besides, my grand parents, my parents, one of my brothers, unlces and aunts are all buried in Pakistan. That is why Pakistan is and will remain very close to my heart.
In my view the State should never enter into a dialogue with her own people unless from strength. If one of your brothers joins the miscreants and acts against the interest of the family, surely he will be thrown out. If he wants to re-join the family, he would have to apologise and ask for forgiveness.
Any time TTP wants dialogue, all they have to do vow not to carry out any more killings in Pakistan or attack Pak security forces and they would be rehabilitated. However, our elected leaders such as Imran Khan and Nawaz Sharif have instead been begging Taliban for dialogue which Taliban have haughtily declined. It is like trying to clap with hand and shows that State is afraid of TTP.
Regarding the stupid argument ‘What happens if the Army Operation fails?’ Naturally effect would be the same as doing nothing; Taliban will take over. But do PTI want to give up Pakistan to TTP without even fighting. If I go down, I would like to go down fighting like a man not a like the cowards who run way thinking that the other party is too powerful. Besides, if our army is incapable of defending us from Taliban, surely it can't defends us against any other enemy either, therefore it should be disbanded right away.
I also don’t buy argument the most of the people killed were Pashtun. I consider Pakistanis as full Pakistani and my brothers. Besides many people have also been killed in Karachi as well. If you start Pashtun and non-Pashtun argument you give substance to MQM and Jiye Sindh movement who would like to restrict Sindh to Sindhis only.
I have never claimed monopoly on patriotism but there is a red- line beyond which patriotism disappears and you become a traitor. In my eyes Munawwar Hassan declaration that murdered Hakimullah Mehsud is Shaheed and all those died fighting against him are not; makes Munawwar Hassan and those who support him traitors to the State of Pakistan.
I have asked myself many times as to why Imran Khan is so enamoured with those:
"Who don't believe in democracy and don't believe in the State of Pakistan or her constitution.
Boldly admit bombing bus passengers, Sufi saints, school girls, mosques, Imambargahs, PNS Mehran, PAF Kamara, GHQ, RA Bazzar, killing Gen Niazi etc." ?
I certainly can't explain except that Imran Khan is playing politics and doing this for the sake of pro- Taliban vote.
Here is an excellent article about indecison:
S Iftikhar Murshed
Sunday, January 26, 2014
When the English poet, Edward Young (1683-1765), wrote in one of his works that “procrastination is the thief of time” he injected a statement in English literature that was borrowed by writers down the centuries. Charles Dickens, for instance, used the phrase in his Oliver Twist as did several other classical authors. What Edward Young probably never realised was how hideous the consequences of indecision and the failure to take action can be. This is a lesson the leadership of Pakistan is yet to learn.
The country is literally being devoured by internal violence in the face of government inaction. From the day Nawaz Sharif commenced his third prime ministerial term in June last year till December 31 there were 827 terrorist attacks and the tempo of violence has increased dramatically in the first few days of this year. Those at the helm sitting in plush offices in Islamabad have done nothing to stem the tide of this madness that has killed thousands of men, women and children.
Last Sunday the lives of 26 army personnel were suddenly snuffed out when their Razmak-bound convoy was bombed in Bannu by the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP). Its spokesman announced like a bloodthirsty demon that the attack was in retaliation for the killing of the outfit’s leader Hakeemullah Mehsud and deputy leader Waliur Rehman in drone attacks last year. He then had the gall to add that the TTP was ready for talks on the condition that drone operations were terminated and the army was withdrawn from the tribal areas.
But to his credit he had at least read the tealeaves correctly and was spot-on when he commented that “the government does not even have the power to take key decisions.” This is evident from the inglorious seven months that the PML-N government has been in power. It has remained a passive bystander as terrorist groups ruthlessly implement their ghastly agenda of mass slaughter and destruction.
A day after the Bannu tragedy, 13 people – eight soldiers and five civilians – lost their lives in a suicide bomb attack in Rawalpindi near the GHQ. The TTP promptly claimed responsibility for the carnage which, it boasted, had been “carried out by one of our suicide bombers to take revenge for the Lal Masjid massacre in July 2007 and we will continue our struggle against the secular system.”
The TTP has never wavered from its objective of demolishing what it describes as “the secular system.” A few days back its operatives targeted and killed three employees of the Express Media Group in Karachi. Like the proverbial devil which writes its own scripture, it justified the murders on the ground that “this is a war of ideologies and whosoever opposes us in this war, becomes our enemy and we will attack them. We fight for the establishment of Islamic system in this country. To kill certain people is not our aim. We are fighting to achieve our goal...We will keep fighting all those who oppose Islam and Muslims and harm the ideology of Pakistan by spreading obscenity and nudity in order to destroy the real face of Islam. This is our mission and we will continue to sacrifice our lives for it.”
This then is the mission statement of the TTP on which there cannot be any compromise. The withdrawal of US-led forces from Afghanistan by December this year is merely the end of the beginning and will be the curtain raiser for the “long war” which will be fought till the establishment of an Islamic caliphate. This is the context in which the latest TTP offer of talks has to be seen. Asad Khan, an important commander from its Mohmand chapter has openly said: “everyone knows that Shariah cannot be implemented through talks.”
But a far more telling comment was that of a member of the TTP’s grand shura who claimed that because of the Pakistan government’s eagerness to initiate a dialogue “we have managed to gain many of the benefits that were obtained by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) through the treaty of Hudaybiah.” What he meant was that the offer of talks had not only given the TTP political legitimacy but had also provided it the opportunity to regroup as well as enabled it to spread its poisonous ideology among the people of Pakistan.
All strategists agree that the enemy must never be underestimated. But this also means that there are lessons to be learnt from the strengths and weaknesses of the adversary. The weakness of the TTP is that its newly appointed leader, Mullah Fazlullah, does not belong to the tribal areas – he is from Swat. Even worse, he is a Yousafzai whereas the TTP is almost exclusively from the Mehsud tribe. As a consequence he has, till now, not been able to establish himself in the tribal belt and operates from the Kunar and Nuristan provinces of eastern Afghanistan. There are also unconfirmed reports that he intends to relocate to Dir.
But the man to watch is the TTP deputy leader, Qari Shakeel Ahmed Haqqani from the outfit’s Mohmand chapter. He has also been appointed the head of the political shura and, in the absence of Fazlullah, is said to be the person who calls the shots. In a recent interview to a correspondent of a major English newspaper, Haqqani came across as a man who does not compromise on his principles and is ruthlessly “ambitious and decisive.”
When asked about the TTP’s offer of talks, he replied without the slightest hesitation, “We want to make it clear that if we are talking about dialogue then it is not from a position of weakness. We are very capable of fighting.”
Uncompromising adherence to principles, decisiveness, and negotiations from a position of strength are the three elements that distinguish the TTP from the Pakistani leadership. The government is bending over backwards to appease the outlawed group and has adopted the hypocritical stance, with the support of the major political parties, that the terrorist outrages are in reaction to drone strikes.
This outright lie is at once exposed because there have not been any Predator attacks since the killing of Hakeemullah Mehsud on November 1, 2013, yet this has resulted in an astounding surge in extremist violence. In the first 23 days of this month, starting from the massacre of Shia pilgrims at the border town of Taftan in Balochistan on January 1, there have been 22 terrorist incidents which have taken a dreadful toll. What this establishes is that without drone operations, there will be no restraint on the fanatical TTP and its affiliates to carry out its ruthless campaign of slaughter.
It is all very well for the prime minister to say, as he did earlier in the week, that the “extraordinary situation demands extraordinary steps.” If he has really made up his mind to grasp the nettle, then tough decisions will have to be taken. The Chamberlain-like policy of appeasement that the government has hitherto pursued must be abandoned. Terror can only be fought, not conciliated. An iron-hand-in-velvet-glove approach is required. Only then can negotiations be initiated from a position of strength. The alternative is capitulation.
An incurable sceptic told me that I must be astoundingly gullible if I really believed that there would be any change in government policy. He then cited these simple but sublimely powerful words written at the close of the nineteenth century: “Most people live for love and admiration. But it is by love and admiration that we should live.” He explained that the leadership of Pakistan hungers for unmerited adoration, but has singly and collectively reduced the country to a common marketplace for the buyer and seller where only the cost of everything but the value of nothing matters.
This, he said, is what the TTP has exploited and has justified terrorism as “a war of ideologies for the establishment of an Islamic system.” Its weakness is that its ideology is false and is far removed from the tenets of Islam. This is what the government has to expose because the war against terror will ultimately be fought and won in the ideological battlefield.
The writer is the publisher of Criterion Quarterly.
Email: iftimurshed@gmail.com
The wages of indecision - S Iftikhar Murshed
My concern is my country. Even though I live abroad, my brother, my uncles and my cousins still live in Karachi, Lahore and Sargodha. My in laws also live in Pakistan. Besides, my grand parents, my parents, one of my brothers, unlces and aunts are all buried in Pakistan. That is why Pakistan is and will remain very close to my heart.
In my view the State should never enter into a dialogue with her own people unless from strength. If one of your brothers joins the miscreants and acts against the interest of the family, surely he will be thrown out. If he wants to re-join the family, he would have to apologise and ask for forgiveness.
Any time TTP wants dialogue, all they have to do vow not to carry out any more killings in Pakistan or attack Pak security forces and they would be rehabilitated. However, our elected leaders such as Imran Khan and Nawaz Sharif have instead been begging Taliban for dialogue which Taliban have haughtily declined. It is like trying to clap with hand and shows that State is afraid of TTP.
Regarding the stupid argument ‘What happens if the Army Operation fails?’ Naturally effect would be the same as doing nothing; Taliban will take over. But do PTI want to give up Pakistan to TTP without even fighting. If I go down, I would like to go down fighting like a man not a like the cowards who run way thinking that the other party is too powerful. Besides, if our army is incapable of defending us from Taliban, surely it can't defends us against any other enemy either, therefore it should be disbanded right away.
I also don’t buy argument the most of the people killed were Pashtun. I consider Pakistanis as full Pakistani and my brothers. Besides many people have also been killed in Karachi as well. If you start Pashtun and non-Pashtun argument you give substance to MQM and Jiye Sindh movement who would like to restrict Sindh to Sindhis only.
I have never claimed monopoly on patriotism but there is a red- line beyond which patriotism disappears and you become a traitor. In my eyes Munawwar Hassan declaration that murdered Hakimullah Mehsud is Shaheed and all those died fighting against him are not; makes Munawwar Hassan and those who support him traitors to the State of Pakistan.
I have asked myself many times as to why Imran Khan is so enamoured with those:
"Who don't believe in democracy and don't believe in the State of Pakistan or her constitution.
Boldly admit bombing bus passengers, Sufi saints, school girls, mosques, Imambargahs, PNS Mehran, PAF Kamara, GHQ, RA Bazzar, killing Gen Niazi etc." ?
I certainly can't explain except that Imran Khan is playing politics and doing this for the sake of pro- Taliban vote.
Here is an excellent article about indecison:
S Iftikhar Murshed
Sunday, January 26, 2014
The country is literally being devoured by internal violence in the face of government inaction. From the day Nawaz Sharif commenced his third prime ministerial term in June last year till December 31 there were 827 terrorist attacks and the tempo of violence has increased dramatically in the first few days of this year. Those at the helm sitting in plush offices in Islamabad have done nothing to stem the tide of this madness that has killed thousands of men, women and children.
Last Sunday the lives of 26 army personnel were suddenly snuffed out when their Razmak-bound convoy was bombed in Bannu by the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP). Its spokesman announced like a bloodthirsty demon that the attack was in retaliation for the killing of the outfit’s leader Hakeemullah Mehsud and deputy leader Waliur Rehman in drone attacks last year. He then had the gall to add that the TTP was ready for talks on the condition that drone operations were terminated and the army was withdrawn from the tribal areas.
But to his credit he had at least read the tealeaves correctly and was spot-on when he commented that “the government does not even have the power to take key decisions.” This is evident from the inglorious seven months that the PML-N government has been in power. It has remained a passive bystander as terrorist groups ruthlessly implement their ghastly agenda of mass slaughter and destruction.
A day after the Bannu tragedy, 13 people – eight soldiers and five civilians – lost their lives in a suicide bomb attack in Rawalpindi near the GHQ. The TTP promptly claimed responsibility for the carnage which, it boasted, had been “carried out by one of our suicide bombers to take revenge for the Lal Masjid massacre in July 2007 and we will continue our struggle against the secular system.”
The TTP has never wavered from its objective of demolishing what it describes as “the secular system.” A few days back its operatives targeted and killed three employees of the Express Media Group in Karachi. Like the proverbial devil which writes its own scripture, it justified the murders on the ground that “this is a war of ideologies and whosoever opposes us in this war, becomes our enemy and we will attack them. We fight for the establishment of Islamic system in this country. To kill certain people is not our aim. We are fighting to achieve our goal...We will keep fighting all those who oppose Islam and Muslims and harm the ideology of Pakistan by spreading obscenity and nudity in order to destroy the real face of Islam. This is our mission and we will continue to sacrifice our lives for it.”
This then is the mission statement of the TTP on which there cannot be any compromise. The withdrawal of US-led forces from Afghanistan by December this year is merely the end of the beginning and will be the curtain raiser for the “long war” which will be fought till the establishment of an Islamic caliphate. This is the context in which the latest TTP offer of talks has to be seen. Asad Khan, an important commander from its Mohmand chapter has openly said: “everyone knows that Shariah cannot be implemented through talks.”
But a far more telling comment was that of a member of the TTP’s grand shura who claimed that because of the Pakistan government’s eagerness to initiate a dialogue “we have managed to gain many of the benefits that were obtained by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) through the treaty of Hudaybiah.” What he meant was that the offer of talks had not only given the TTP political legitimacy but had also provided it the opportunity to regroup as well as enabled it to spread its poisonous ideology among the people of Pakistan.
All strategists agree that the enemy must never be underestimated. But this also means that there are lessons to be learnt from the strengths and weaknesses of the adversary. The weakness of the TTP is that its newly appointed leader, Mullah Fazlullah, does not belong to the tribal areas – he is from Swat. Even worse, he is a Yousafzai whereas the TTP is almost exclusively from the Mehsud tribe. As a consequence he has, till now, not been able to establish himself in the tribal belt and operates from the Kunar and Nuristan provinces of eastern Afghanistan. There are also unconfirmed reports that he intends to relocate to Dir.
But the man to watch is the TTP deputy leader, Qari Shakeel Ahmed Haqqani from the outfit’s Mohmand chapter. He has also been appointed the head of the political shura and, in the absence of Fazlullah, is said to be the person who calls the shots. In a recent interview to a correspondent of a major English newspaper, Haqqani came across as a man who does not compromise on his principles and is ruthlessly “ambitious and decisive.”
When asked about the TTP’s offer of talks, he replied without the slightest hesitation, “We want to make it clear that if we are talking about dialogue then it is not from a position of weakness. We are very capable of fighting.”
Uncompromising adherence to principles, decisiveness, and negotiations from a position of strength are the three elements that distinguish the TTP from the Pakistani leadership. The government is bending over backwards to appease the outlawed group and has adopted the hypocritical stance, with the support of the major political parties, that the terrorist outrages are in reaction to drone strikes.
This outright lie is at once exposed because there have not been any Predator attacks since the killing of Hakeemullah Mehsud on November 1, 2013, yet this has resulted in an astounding surge in extremist violence. In the first 23 days of this month, starting from the massacre of Shia pilgrims at the border town of Taftan in Balochistan on January 1, there have been 22 terrorist incidents which have taken a dreadful toll. What this establishes is that without drone operations, there will be no restraint on the fanatical TTP and its affiliates to carry out its ruthless campaign of slaughter.
It is all very well for the prime minister to say, as he did earlier in the week, that the “extraordinary situation demands extraordinary steps.” If he has really made up his mind to grasp the nettle, then tough decisions will have to be taken. The Chamberlain-like policy of appeasement that the government has hitherto pursued must be abandoned. Terror can only be fought, not conciliated. An iron-hand-in-velvet-glove approach is required. Only then can negotiations be initiated from a position of strength. The alternative is capitulation.
An incurable sceptic told me that I must be astoundingly gullible if I really believed that there would be any change in government policy. He then cited these simple but sublimely powerful words written at the close of the nineteenth century: “Most people live for love and admiration. But it is by love and admiration that we should live.” He explained that the leadership of Pakistan hungers for unmerited adoration, but has singly and collectively reduced the country to a common marketplace for the buyer and seller where only the cost of everything but the value of nothing matters.
This, he said, is what the TTP has exploited and has justified terrorism as “a war of ideologies for the establishment of an Islamic system.” Its weakness is that its ideology is false and is far removed from the tenets of Islam. This is what the government has to expose because the war against terror will ultimately be fought and won in the ideological battlefield.
The writer is the publisher of Criterion Quarterly.
Email: iftimurshed@gmail.com
The wages of indecision - S Iftikhar Murshed
Last edited:
Riseup
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I am remembering when S. Waziristan and Swat operation took place, such kind of people were busting in this forum that “this will happen” and “that will happen” and everything will go out of the hands of Army and Pakistan but after that operation we are seeing a peace full and controlled area of Swat and S. Waziristan. That’s also went in Lal Masjid operation now I am seeing a new havoc on N. Waziristan operation like I saw in past. What is simple to understand is that after N. Waziristan operation N. Waziristan will come in control of Pakistan Army and have better peace like S. Waziristan and Swat areas. Keep in mind N. Waziristan is Last area that was not operated yet fully and cleared from terrorist and when it cleared from terrorists there will be no administrative area will left which is out of control.
Regarding local tribes what I know is that they are also facing the roughness of TTP and worried to come out from this situation you can see what happen in S. Waziristan now TTP have no influence in this area as per my friend who is Mahsud from this area after Hakeem Ullah Mehsud no big name from this area to support TTP even Khan Said Mahsud got silent and stop supporting TTP’s roughs, even issue a pamphlet to locals that complain on the provided numbers if someone threating them in the name of TTP.
Time has been left too much everyone have seen the reality of TTP even local tribes who are number one victim of TTP. Land has been slided under the feet of these so called Taliban, you will see how they face the outcome of their deeds in N. Waziristan no tribe come to save them (keep my words) neither Wazirs nor Mehsuds and Haqqanies etc.
Regarding what will be reaction in the cities of Pakistan for that security agencies should break nixes of TTP in Pakistan who have their hideouts in cities have influence in Political and Religious parties and media, leaving under their umbrella.
Regarding local tribes what I know is that they are also facing the roughness of TTP and worried to come out from this situation you can see what happen in S. Waziristan now TTP have no influence in this area as per my friend who is Mahsud from this area after Hakeem Ullah Mehsud no big name from this area to support TTP even Khan Said Mahsud got silent and stop supporting TTP’s roughs, even issue a pamphlet to locals that complain on the provided numbers if someone threating them in the name of TTP.
Time has been left too much everyone have seen the reality of TTP even local tribes who are number one victim of TTP. Land has been slided under the feet of these so called Taliban, you will see how they face the outcome of their deeds in N. Waziristan no tribe come to save them (keep my words) neither Wazirs nor Mehsuds and Haqqanies etc.
Regarding what will be reaction in the cities of Pakistan for that security agencies should break nixes of TTP in Pakistan who have their hideouts in cities have influence in Political and Religious parties and media, leaving under their umbrella.
Last edited:
Marwat Khan Lodhi
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whoever takes up arms against the state will be dealt with - just like they were in Orakzai, Swat, S. Waz etc.
and anyone who has a problem with the operations should try to understand why they are necessary...otherwise they are free to leave. They can be critical of the military but if TTP type shyte-heads administered them, they'd be beheaded for raising any voice.
Our military is careful about who it targets. Those fleeing or being displaced will be well taken care of.
I'm sad to see that months after our last interaction you are still a sympathizer of these anti-State miscreant groups
may you be guided
p.s. Bugti blew himself up, nobody killed him. And few few districts of Balochistan have any anti-Pakistan groups, and even those groups operate b/c of enemies supporting them across the Durand Line. We will deal with them too as we already are.
right....what's the dessertion rate in your "military"
first have your dear leader Karzai and his northern alliance "intelligentsia" gain the ability to control areas outside of Kabul and then we can talk about your mental masturbation wishes of sending conventional forces or "ghairati officers"
laugh
into our side of the border
you had some ghairatis who tried to capture Pakistani territory some decades back and it was regular tribals and a small # of FC that sent them running away
it's hilarious to see people like you (who were once refugees in Pakistan or still are) talk about going against the hand that fed you
and anyone who has a problem with the operations should try to understand why they are necessary...otherwise they are free to leave. They can be critical of the military but if TTP type shyte-heads administered them, they'd be beheaded for raising any voice.
Our military is careful about who it targets. Those fleeing or being displaced will be well taken care of.
I'm sad to see that months after our last interaction you are still a sympathizer of these anti-State miscreant groups
may you be guided
p.s. Bugti blew himself up, nobody killed him. And few few districts of Balochistan have any anti-Pakistan groups, and even those groups operate b/c of enemies supporting them across the Durand Line. We will deal with them too as we already are.
right....what's the dessertion rate in your "military"
first have your dear leader Karzai and his northern alliance "intelligentsia" gain the ability to control areas outside of Kabul and then we can talk about your mental masturbation wishes of sending conventional forces or "ghairati officers"
laugh into our side of the borderyou had some ghairatis who tried to capture Pakistani territory some decades back and it was regular tribals and a small # of FC that sent them running away
it's hilarious to see people like you (who were once refugees in Pakistan or still are) talk about going against the hand that fed you
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Can't hear you with all the jizz in your mouth.he has been here longer than you... and usually have real info about the area he is familier with. Rest are just repeating what their fauz/party/dad said... not really interesting to me.
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