Confirmed: Iran and Russia to Co-Produce Su-30 Fighter Jet

[Dr Gupta]

Welcome to the club my Iranian brothers let's toast with some Persian chai

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Iran must be going for big numbers if it's going for local production like India. India initially signed for 270+, now I am hearing 300+.

 

[Daneshmand]

Congratulation Iran and a big congrats to @Daneshmand :
I know my Good sir you had advocated a make in Iran concept and i hope like India's MKIs you can have MKIr.. A wonderful bird, it will serve your country's need..

Pls do ensure that your local MIC and aero industry grows with sufficient localisation and tech absorption wherever possible..You should not miss the chance at all.. Of course do also look at spares and service part perhaps a feedback from our IAF and GOI so that we can help you everything including training pilots..

This will open up the doors in future for more jets like 5th Gen PAKFA say a decade later from now but more importantly Iran may be able to have a jet fighter program on its own say a 5th gen program if sufficiently the MIC evolves..

It opens up to endless possibilities and sky is the limit.. Congrats again...

Hope to see MKI and MKIr together soon in a bilateral exercise...

Thank you. And kudos to your deep observation!

For countries like ours, it is extremely important to acquire as much technology as possible. As inventing the wheel all over again will take huge amount of time and resources.

But hopefully in future, we will be able to invent our own technologies as well. But right now the need of the hour is to acquire as much technology as practically possible.

Iran must be going for big numbers if it's going to local production like India. India initially signed for 270+, now I am hearing 300+.

India has a bigger landmass and population. For Iran even something in the range of 100-200 would do just fine. The future focus should be to acquire and perfect PAKFA technology. That should be the aim since only PAKFA can guarantee the air superiority for a nation through the middle of this century. Therefore PAKFA technology is a high return long term investment. This Su-30 deal is just one step in the right evolutionary direction to adopt the Sukhoi design, which should then culminate into PAKFA, hopefully in not that distant future.

 

[Dr Gupta]

Thank you. And kudos to your deep observation!

For countries like ours, it is extremely important to acquire as much technology as possible. As inventing the wheel all over again will take huge amount of time and resources.

But hopefully in future, we will be able to invent our own technologies as well. But right now the need of the hour is to acquire as much technology as practically possible.

We can help and do some research together but hush hush style the evil eye is everywhere

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/asia_rpt_120rev_0.pdf

This is quite interesting, it says India before were helping the Iranians with their Mig 29's as well as training

 

[Scavenger]

This is fantastic news!

It is all but certain now that India and Iran will deepen their engagement to wholly different level.

1. India has practically written the book on advanced air combat on the new generation Su-30's. Our pilots have trained the Indonesian AF as well. Assisting the Iranian AF on the new planes will shorten the induction period of the new platform.

2. Iran could and most likely would use the Indian developed techniques which are specifically built to counter American fighters like the F-16 blk 52's and F-15. (A squadron of Singaporean F-16 Blk 52's are permanently based in India as India leases out part of a base to Singapore as precaution against a surprise/preemptive assault on Singapore)
We know the inns and outs of these US planes. This may or may not help against certain Arab or Arab loving neighbours of Iran

3. The Iranian planes would most likely use Indian designed products(either manufactured in India or manufactured in Iran depending on the kind of ToT they want). Just like the Indonesian Su-30 uses Indian parts.

4. That India already produces most parts of the Su-30, it would mean that there is an alternate international supply chain other than Russia(and Iran in the future - again depending on what level of ToT they take), which not only drives down the cost but also means their planes will never be short of spares even in worst case scenario's of international sanctions.

More money for India?! Dude the plane is Russian. If Russia did not want to sell it to Iran, then India could not sell anything to Iran. The technology is Russian. Though with more countries building it and buying it, the total cost per plane will go down benefiting all. But Iran is interested in technology acquisition. As India is doing itself by acquiring technology from Russia

Sir, if Iran purchases the Su-30, India makes money. Some sections of the Su-30 use Indian technology.
While you are right that without Russian approval, India cannot sell Su-30 as a whole to anyone, India can however sell some individual parts that were designed and developed by India for the Su-30 which were so much better than the original Russian ones that they were incorporated in the global Su-30 supply chain and ordered by almost all international customers of the new Su-30's. These can be exported without Russian approval as well.

 

[randomradio]

You mean I have to take your lay opinion more seriously than the opinion of an expert who publishes under his own name rather than under a handle in a defense forum?

We read:

"In the broadest of terms, the PAK-FA is a fusion of ideas and design features seen in late model Flanker variants and demonstrators, but incorporating specific stealth shaping features employed previously in the Northrop/MDC YF-23 ATF demonstrator, and the production LM F-22 Raptor. The PAK-FA is clearly a unique Russian design and is neither a copy of the F-22 or the YF-23.

No less importantly, the PAK-FA is by Western standards a low risk design, following the Russian philosophy of “evolutionary” design, rather than the “Big Bang” approach currently favoured in the West, of trying to start from scratch with most or every key portion of the design.

It is important to note that the Russian approach to development more than often differs from the Western approach, particularly that of the United States industry, with a much stronger Russian focus on risk management and risk minimization. A powerful approach evident in the development of the Flanker family of aircraft has been, firstly, to plan long term, then to spread developmental risks across the series of planned new aircraft types and variants as well as parallel design/development activities. The benefits of such an approach are clearly obvious.

The best illustration of how much more effective Russian systems development philosophy is, is that the development of the PAK-FA, with a projected budget in the order of US$10 Billion, was launched officially in 2002, concurrently with the launch of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program, yet the latter has experienced repeated delays in schedule, repeated problems with basic technology, and remains heavily laden with accumulated design risks as well as inordinately high and growing costs."

Enough said.

Are you kidding me? Just look at a PAK FA and tell me what of the Su-27 do you see there? This 'low risk' design is expected to cost $225M flyaway. You can buy a F-22 and F-35 at the same cost.

And what the author means by evolutionary design has nothing do with Su-27/Su-30. What he is saying is the PAK FA will continuously be improved on via new models, that's evolutionary design. The Su-27 followed the same design philosophy. The US does the same too, that's why the argument fails.

More money for India?! Dude the plane is Russian. If Russia did not want to sell it to Iran, then India could not sell anything to Iran. The technology is Russian. Though with more countries building it and buying it, the total cost per plane will go down benefiting all. But Iran is interested in technology acquisition. As India is doing itself by acquiring technology from Russia in this regard (among others).

India exports Su-30 tech to Russia, like the mission computer. Iran can do the same. So HAL makes money.

And the entire support infrastructure in India is built to support foreign Su-30s also. HAL has been certified as the Su-30's OEM. So the Iranian Su-30s can be overhauled in India. Engine maintenance and overhaul can also be done in India. So more business for HAL. Sukhoi is building spares factories in India and they can deliver those spares to Iran.

There is a lot of benefit for Iran to work with India in the future, and not just with Su-30s and PAK FAs. Iran could very well be the first in line for airborne Brahmos. The rupee trade can help our countries take off big time.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

@Daneshmand

Any idea what camo will be used on them?

 

[Daneshmand]

Are you kidding me? Just look at a PAK FA and tell me what of the Su-27 do you see there? This 'low risk' design is expected to cost $225M flyaway. You can buy a F-22 and F-35 at the same cost.

And what the author means by evolutionary design has nothing do with Su-27/Su-30. What he is saying is the PAK FA will continuously be improved on via new models, that's evolutionary design. The Su-27 followed the same design philosophy. The US does the same too, that's why the argument fails.



India exports Su-30 tech to Russia, like the mission computer. Iran can do the same. So HAL makes money.

And the entire support infrastructure in India is built to support foreign Su-30s also. HAL has been certified as the Su-30's OEM. So the Iranian Su-30s can be overhauled in India. Engine maintenance and overhaul can also be done in India. So more business for HAL. Sukhoi is building spares factories in India and they can deliver those spares to Iran.

There is a lot of benefit for Iran to work with India in the future, and not just with Su-30s and PAK FAs. Iran could very well be the first in line for airborne Brahmos. The rupee trade can help our countries take off big time.

You obviously are not getting the point.

Iran is trying to buy technology to become independent. Not to become dependent on India. That is hilarious. Iran's entire foreign policy strives for independence, so it would be now hilarious to suggest Iran is doing this to be a subservient to India.

Another laughter matter was your suggestion that India is exporting technology to Russia. Dude, it is Russia that has sold the technology to India. Now, India is a PARTNER in the project but to suggest that Russians are paralyzed and are dependent on India to form a deal with Iran, is just beyond hilarious. Surely, Russia can build mission computers too. If they could build mission computers in 1980s for Buran to take off to space orbit and land back on earth completely automated, they can manage to build Su-30 mission computers too without India.

As I said, above, countries such as ours can not invent their own technology at this stage. They have to acquire them from outside.

So don't try to paint it as anything else. This is the point I am making.

@Daneshmand

Any idea what camo will be used on them?

Ah, dear, these will be decided much later. But my guess would be some desert/mountain camo similar to Iranian F-14s.

 

[kollang]

Some Iranian members might know Babak Taghvayi.he claimed Iran will purchase 160 SU-30SMEs.

@Daneshmand

Any idea what camo will be used on them?

This is nice.

 

[nik141993]

Congratulation

 

[Water Car Engineer]

India exports Su-30 tech to Russia, like the mission computer. Iran can do the same. So HAL makes money.

And the entire support infrastructure in India is built to support foreign Su-30s also. HAL has been certified as the Su-30's OEM. So the Iranian Su-30s can be overhauled in India. Engine maintenance and overhaul can also be done in India. So more business for HAL. Sukhoi is building spares factories in India and they can deliver those spares to Iran.

There is a lot of benefit for Iran to work with India in the future, and not just with Su-30s and PAK FAs. Iran could very well be the first in line for airborne Brahmos. The rupee trade can help our countries take off big time.

Where did you get that India is exporting things for Russia's Sus? The new Su 30MS was stripped off of any Indian input, and was replaced with Russian equipment.

India just localized much of the parts, or found alternatives within Indian, non Russian industry. This is what Iran is trying to do.

View attachment 294208
This is nice.

Nice..

 

[AmirPatriot]

Are you kidding me? Just look at a PAK FA and tell me what of the Su-27 do you see there? This 'low risk' design is expected to cost $225M flyaway. You can buy a F-22 and F-35 at the same cost.

And what the author means by evolutionary design has nothing do with Su-27/Su-30. What he is saying is the PAK FA will continuously be improved on via new models, that's evolutionary design. The Su-27 followed the same design philosophy. The US does the same too, that's why the argument fails.



India exports Su-30 tech to Russia, like the mission computer. Iran can do the same. So HAL makes money.

And the entire support infrastructure in India is built to support foreign Su-30s also. HAL has been certified as the Su-30's OEM. So the Iranian Su-30s can be overhauled in India. Engine maintenance and overhaul can also be done in India. So more business for HAL. Sukhoi is building spares factories in India and they can deliver those spares to Iran.

There is a lot of benefit for Iran to work with India in the future, and not just with Su-30s and PAK FAs. Iran could very well be the first in line for airborne Brahmos. The rupee trade can help our countries take off big time.

I know you want India and HAL to succeed, but you've got to wait a minute!

Iran learnt in the war with Iraq that it cannot rely on foreign nations for its defence. We had dozens of nations selling weapons, giving intelligence and financing and support of everything to Saddam, and 3 or 4 nations helping Iran! Not to say India is untrustworthy but we cannot rely on the outside. Sorry

What Iran is looking for is an India level of manufacturing, to the point that it is recognised as an OEM, just like India. We want to make everything from scratch!

But everyone has to hold their horses!

قرارداد فروش سوخو30 در جریان بازدید وزیر دفاع ایران از مسکو امضا نمی شود



تهران واقعا علاقمندی خود به خرید چند فروند هواپیمای جنگنده "سوخو ـ 30 اس ام" از روسیه را نشان می دهد اما قرارداد مربوطه در جریان بازدید فعلی سردار حسین دهقان، وزیر دفاع ایران از مسکو امضا نخواهد شد.
یک مقام عالی رتبه سازمان فدرال همکاری های فناوری نظامی روسیه ضمن اعلام این مطلب به خبرگزاری "ریا نووستی" خاطرنشان ساخت فعلا طرفین در حال بحث درباره این مسئله هستند.

قرارداد فروش سوخو30 در جریان بازدید وزیر دفاع ایران از مسکو امضا نمی شود

The deal has not been signed! And probably won't be signed in this visit! The defence minister is still holding talks with the Russians!

Some Iranian members might know Babak Taghvayi.he claimed Iran will purchase 160 SU-30SMEs.


View attachment 294208
This is nice.

Unfortunately Babak Taghvaee isn't known for always being completely accurate. 160 SMs would be great though.

You obviously are not getting the point.

Iran is trying to buy technology to become independent. Not to become dependent on India. That is hilarious. Iran's entire foreign policy strives for independence, so it would be now hilarious to suggest Iran is doing this to be a subservient to India.

Another laughter matter was your suggestion that India is exporting technology to Russia. Dude, it is Russia that has sold the technology to India. Now, India is a PARTNER in the project but to suggest that Russians are paralyzed and are dependent on India to form a deal with Iran, is just beyond hilarious. Surely, Russia can build mission computers too. If they could build mission computers in 1980s for Buran to take off to space orbit and land back on earth completely automated, they can manage to build Su-30 mission computers too without India.

As I said, above, countries such as ours can not invent their own technology at this stage. They have to acquire them from outside.

So don't try to paint it as anything else. This is the point I am making.



Ah, dear, these will be decided much later. But my guess would be some desert/mountain camo similar to Iranian F-14s.

The F-14's don't use the desert/mountain camo anymore. The F-14AM asia minor camo would be nice, though the current F-14 camo is pretty darned good too.

 

[Blue Marlin]

You obviously are not getting the point.

Iran is trying to buy technology to become independent. Not to become dependent on India. That is hilarious. Iran's entire foreign policy strives for independence, so it would be now hilarious to suggest Iran is doing this to be a subservient to India.

Another laughter matter was your suggestion that India is exporting technology to Russia. Dude, it is Russia that has sold the technology to India. Now, India is a PARTNER in the project but to suggest that Russians are paralyzed and are dependent on India to form a deal with Iran, is just beyond hilarious. Surely, Russia can build mission computers too. If they could build mission computers in 1980s for Buran to take off to space orbit and land back on earth completely automated, they can manage to build Su-30 mission computers too without India.

As I said, above, countries such as ours can not invent their own technology at this stage. They have to acquire them from outside.

So don't try to paint it as anything else. This is the point I am making.



Ah, dear, these will be decided much later. But my guess would be some desert/mountain camo similar to Iranian F-14s.

well i get your point on how you guys need to be independant and all but russia even let you. iran is near enough a virgin market and russia will not be wise to give you freedom that easily. it wil be similar to the su30 mki agreement and they will probably allow you to add your weapons own and chinese weapons too. hek even china is not compleatly independant they still need russia for engines. but granted by 2020 they wont need them.

 

[Scavenger]

I know you want India and HAL to succeed, but you've got to wait a minute!

Iran learnt in the war with Iraq that it cannot rely on foreign nations for its defence. We had dozens of nations selling weapons, giving intelligence and financing and support of everything to Saddam, and 3 or 4 nations helping Iran! Not to say India is untrustworthy but we cannot rely on the outside. Sorry

What Iran is looking for is an India level of manufacturing, to the point that it is recognised as an OEM, just like India. We want to make everything from scratch!

Nobody is taking it the other way. Iran's goal of being self sufficient is one that we Indians can readily identify with for we strive for the same goal.

And Iran becoming another producer is also good news for India as well. As I said, it is good to have an alternate supply chain, not only does it ensure wider availability incase of sanctions, it also drives down the price for everyone.

well i get your point on hoe you guys need to be independant and all but russia even let you. iran is near enough a virgin market and russia will not be wise to give you freedom that easily. it wil be similar to the su30 mki agreement and they will probably allow you to add your weapons own and chinese weapons too. hek even china is not compleatly independant they still need russia for engines. but granted by 2020 they wont need them.

Under the deal we signed with Russia, we produce or can produce close to everything except for the engines from raw material stage.
Some parts are not produced in India because its cheaper to source them from Russia, but they can be produced if required(not including engines) .

 

[Daneshmand]

well i get your point on hoe you guys need to be independant and all but russia even let you. iran is near enough a virgin market and russia will not be wise to give you freedom that easily. it wil be similar to the su30 mki agreement and they will probably allow you to add your weapons own and chinese weapons too. hek even china is not compleatly independant they still need russia for engines. but granted by 2020 they wont need them.

Everyone has to start somewhere. With time, things will move forward. The important thing is to take the first step in the right direction and continue from thereon.

Some parts are not produced in India because its cheaper to source them from Russia, but they can be produced if required(not including engines) .

It is really amazing that after 70 years since the invention of jet engines, countries such as ours are still lagging behind in this regard. Even China with all its manufacturing might still has problems with regard to engines.