Comparing India and Pakistan 2010

[sensenreason]

He said Pakistan WAS a failed state. Where or not that's true is arguable, but it's irrelevant beacuse he is saying it WAS.

Secondly, like I mentioned, for the most part the world's media and these kinds of reports cannot be trusted. If you study the media from a political point of view, you'll find out what happens behind the scenes and how heavily controlled the media is. So for the most part I avoid using the media as my source of reliable information. I do listen to it, but keeps other things in mind when listening to them.

So if they report something, I always keep in mind it's high likely they are not reporting the full story or presenting the story in a certain way to make me believe what they want me to believe.

If people cannot be trusted and the media cannot be trusted how do you substantiate the point. At some point a line has to be drawn in the sand as far sources of information go. You wont trust Indian, American sources but are okay with Chinese and your own media? Hows that fair?

This is especially true when things are GREY and not black and white which is true for most things in life.

 

[Cisco-GUY]

Oh i heard you need more, NOW BEAT THIS

If slums, skyline and HDI are only indicator of economic growth and being a sucessful nation then Mr Riazhaq should place bankrupt countries link Iceland and greece on top of that list.

 

[vision+]

He said Pakistan WAS a failed state. Where or not that's true is arguable, but it's irrelevant beacuse he is saying it WAS.

Secondly, like I mentioned, for the most part the world's media and these kinds of reports cannot be trusted. If you study the media from a political point of view, you'll find out what happens behind the scenes and how heavily controlled the media is. So for the most part I avoid using the media as my source of reliable information. I do listen to it, but keeps other things in mind when listening to them.

So if they report something, I always keep in mind it's high likely they are not reporting the full story or presenting the story in a certain way to make me believe what they want me to believe.

These Biased reports can be used to compare India and pakistan and prove India is worse off than pakistan , but same reports are not good enough to prove pakistan's plight.

So Hypocritical.

 

[indian_musing]

LOL. You're seriously on a trolling rampage. The article is from 2008 and most of what that guy is saying is false or is false now.

There is no change in reality. After this article pakistan was nearly bankrupt in 2009 and was at IMF and world bank door with its famous bowl.

You know the thread starter even compared data for teledensity

Indian data till mar 2009 with pakistan mar 2010

 

[SMC]

Well let's put it this way. I do not trust any media. I only look at what they have to say in terms of information but I always keep in mind there's always stuff in the articles that is trying to make me believe what they want me to beieve. In other words, what I am saying is that I use them to get the information on what's happening, I keep in mind they might not be presenting the whole story, or might be presenting the story in a certain way, both.

Especially when it comes to things that people are emotional about, that divide people, etc. The failed state ranking said that they use thousands of media articles to derive their rankings. That is not how you should be doing those rankings. That to me spells unreliability from the go.

And additionally, they ranked Pakistan at 10 in 2005 or 2006, when Pakistan was growing quite nicely and there was little violence problem. The only thing same was the media hysteria and doom and gloom which probably made the rankings what they were.

 

[SMC]

These Biased reports can be used to compare India and pakistan and prove India is worse off than pakistan , but same reports are not god enough to prove pakistan's plight.

So Hypocritical.

I am not doing anything like that.

Moreso, the reports some people mention as regards to India are statistics. In other words, they are not reports or biased rankings. If done correctly, statistics can show the facts. Reports and these rankings are not the same. I also accept statistics regarding Pakistan provided the context is the same.

 

[SMC]

There is no change in reality. After this article pakistan was nearly bankrupt in 2009 and was at IMF and world bank door with its famous bowl.

The article you posted does not say any of that. I was referring to the article. Reality is that as soon as their violence goes, growth will pick up quite quickly again. You're looking at things in short term.

 

[vision+]

I am not doing anything like that.

Moreso, the reports some people mention as regards to India are statistics. In other words, they are not reports or biased rankings. If done correctly, statistics can show the facts. Reports and these rankings are not the same. I also accept statistics regarding Pakistan provided the context is the same.

Thats what some posters are saying that OP has quoted stats selectively to drive home his points evn going to the extent of making comparisons between India and Pakistan in 2 different time dimensions. So the article from OP blogger is definitely not a source of truth but a fake propogandistic blog to earn browny points and who know what. If you dont trust world media who unfortunately most on this planet tend to trust but a blogger who has been proved time and again to be lying in the pretext of quoting articles, stats selectively.

 

[EagleEyes]

Pakistan is in state of war. Going by that, situation could have been a lot worst. But the way Pakistan Armed Forces have handled the situation is nothing but commendable. Pakistan, therefore is no where close to a failed state. It has a growing economy, and increased amount of graduates. That being said.. i am going to end with a great quote of the so-called MILITARY DIKTATOR of Pakistan.

Pervez Musharraf: Today, despite its initial meager resources and despite dire predictions, Pakistan and the idea of Pakistan have survived seventy years. Our country was a milestone in the Pakistan movement, but the struggle continues until its ideals are achieved for all Pakistanis.

 

[karan.1970]

I have distorted nothing. On the contrary, you have spun the article and video I posted to deliberately misinterpret its contents which in fact challenge media hype of " India a superpower and Pakistan a failed state". And you are ignoring that key part and clutching for the straws to bolster your baseless arguments.

Haq.. I am not even referingto the video.. By the time you posted it, I had realized your ruse of presenting pruned articles under the guise of presenting facts and data. No wonder most of the time your posts here donot contan links to the original sources that you quote but links to your blogs..

Dont try to hide behind the strawman of countering the media propaganda of India a super power and Pakistan a failed state, because its you who started the thread with the topic of comparing India and Pakistan with a pruned article ...

I never said the statement about India a super power and Pakistan a failed state and hence am not required to defend that.. So the only straws I see here are in your hand because you have been caught in a lie...

In fact, here' how the youtube description of the video reads:

While the media has been only too eager to praise India as an emerging superpower, neighbouring Pakistan has been portrayed as a failed state - and the only US ally bombed regularly by Washington. This contrast, Dalrymple said, was a huge exaggeration: India had its own big problems with Naxalite and Maoist insurgents, and Pakistan had an emerging urban middle class, better infrastructure and a proliferation of TV and radio channels.

I am not even contesting that India has problems.. The only thing I am arguing against is your pruning out articles by international writers to suite your convinience and your using that incomplete data to project that Pakistan is better than India...Like when while refering to Dalrymple you left out the fact that he said that while India has its problems, Pakistan's problems are on a different scale. And whether Pakistan will survive these problems or not is also not clear..

Your cohorts here are resorting to the sharing the same media that are denounced in Dalrymple's video....they are mindless part of the mob you are leading here.

You either don't comprehend it, or you are being deliberately disingenuous.

cohorts or whatever, you can not expect to lie on a forum(selective / partial quoting is akin to lying), get caught and not expect a backlash. You blame me about getting personal and disagreeable and its you using the terms like mindless, mob, cohorts etc ...

I understand what you say and reason you say it.. I have met the type of people (both Indian and Pakistani and other nationalities) who intellectually have nothing but their mindless hate to keep them going.. In your case this mindless hate has taken the guise of nationalism.. All the best to you...

 

[karan.1970]

Pakistan is in state of war. Going by that, situation could have been a lot worst. But the way Pakistan Armed Forces have handled the situation is nothing but commendable. Pakistan, therefore is no where close to a failed state. It has a growing economy, and increased amount of graduates. That being said.. i am going to end with a great quote of the so-called MILITARY DIKTATOR of Pakistan.

Well said.. I personally dont buy the whole arguement of the concept of a failed state anyway....

IN this thread also its unfortunate that this arguement has come in as a part of the mess that has got created due to unethical practise of one of the members to post massaged/pruned/selective articles to put India in a bad light.

To my Indian friends (the concept seems difficult to understand for a member who can only think in terms of mob and cohorts), please dont bad mouth a country because of one (or few) bad apple(s).....

 

[Jade]

I have distorted nothing. On the contrary, you have spun the article and video I posted to deliberately misinterpret its contents which in fact challenge media hype of " India a superpower and Pakistan a failed state". And you are ignoring that key part and clutching for the straws to bolster your baseless arguments.

In fact, here' how the youtube description of the video reads:

While the media has been only too eager to praise India as an emerging superpower, neighbouring Pakistan has been portrayed as a failed state - and the only US ally bombed regularly by Washington. This contrast, Dalrymple said, was a huge exaggeration: India had its own big problems with Naxalite and Maoist insurgents, and Pakistan had an emerging urban middle class, better infrastructure and a proliferation of TV and radio channels.

Your cohorts here are resorting to the sharing the same media that are denounced in Dalrymple's video....they are mindless part of the mob you are leading here.

You either don't comprehend it, or you are being deliberately disingenuous.

As far I remember, no Indian on this forum has ever described India a superpower neither it is nor Pakistan a failed state. The whole argument of India Vs Pakistan is your creation. The posts you posted are cherry picked, selectively edited and doctored articles against India are nothing but ignoring the key part and clutching for the straws to bolster your baseless arguments.

You talk on issues on which you lack knowledge; you talk of figures which conform to your thinking; you ignore or doctor the figures or facts which don’t conform to your thinking; you never counter any posters' argument logically; you talk of our upbringing; you talk of education; you use words such as mob, cohorts, and mindless to describe Indians and, above all, you abuse my country, and you expect Indians not to backlash?

You either is foolish, or you are so haterated towards India that you deliberately don’t want to see things in clear perspective.

 

[RiazHaq]

Haq.. I am not even referingto the video.. By the time you posted it, I had realized your ruse of presenting pruned articles under the guise of presenting facts and data. No wonder most of the time your posts here donot contan links to the original sources that you quote but links to your blogs..

Dont try to hide behind the strawman of countering the media propaganda of India a super power and Pakistan a failed state, because its you who started the thread with the topic of comparing India and Pakistan with a pruned article ...

I never said the statement about India a super power and Pakistan a failed state and hence am not required to defend that.. So the only straws I see here are in your hand because you have been caught in a lie...

I am not even contesting that India has problems.. The only thing I am arguing against is your pruning out articles by international writers to suite your convinience and your using that incomplete data to project that Pakistan is better than India...Like when while refering to Dalrymple you left out the fact that he said that while India has its problems, Pakistan's problems are on a different scale. And whether Pakistan will survive these problems or not is also not clear..



cohorts or whatever, you can not expect to lie on a forum(selective / partial quoting is akin to lying), get caught and not expect a backlash. You blame me about getting personal and disagreeable and its you using the terms like mindless, mob, cohorts etc ...

I understand what you say and reason you say it.. I have met the type of people (both Indian and Pakistani and other nationalities) who intellectually have nothing but their mindless hate to keep them going.. In your case this mindless hate has taken the guise of nationalism.. All the best to you...

If you read my post that started this thread and the links I have provided, it is clear that I have tried to be as objective as possible in my comparison of the two neighbors. If you bother to read it again, you will realize how balanced it is. But you have latched on to the areas where I say Pakistan has done better than India and tried in vain to fight it with all your misguided patriotism.

Given what I have seen so far, I have to sadly conclude that you and many of your Indian cohorts here are part of an anti-Pakistan campaign through the media and cybersace that is described as follows by a former India top spy Vikram Sood:

"Covert action can be of various kinds. One is the paramilitary option, which is what the Pakistanis have been using against us. It is meant to hurt, destabilize or retaliate. The second is the psychological war option, which is a very potent and unseen force. It is an all weather option and constitutes essentially changing perceptions of friends and foes alike. The media is a favorite instrument, provided it is not left to the bureaucrats because then we will end up with some clumsy and implausible propaganda effort. More than the electronic and print media, it is now the internet and YouTube that can be the next-generation weapons of psychological war. Terrorists use these liberally and so should those required to counter terrorism."

Haq's Musings: India's Covert War in Pakistan

 

[desiman]

If you read my post that started this thread and the links I have provided, it is clear that I have tried to be as objective as possible in my comparison of the two neighbors. If you bother to read it again, you will realize how balanced it is. But you have latched on to the areas where I say Pakistan has done better than India and tried in vain to fight it with all your misguided patriotism.

Given what I have seen so far, I have to sadly conclude that you and many of your Indian cohorts here are part of an anti-Pakistan campaign through the media and cybersace that is described as follows by a former India top spy Vikram Sood:

"Covert action can be of various kinds. One is the paramilitary option, which is what the Pakistanis have been using against us. It is meant to hurt, destabilize or retaliate. The second is the psychological war option, which is a very potent and unseen force. It is an all weather option and constitutes essentially changing perceptions of friends and foes alike. The media is a favorite instrument, provided it is not left to the bureaucrats because then we will end up with some clumsy and implausible propaganda effort. More than the electronic and print media, it is now the internet and YouTube that can be the next-generation weapons of psychological war. Terrorists use these liberally and so should those required to counter terrorism."

Haq's Musings: India's Covert War in Pakistan

What a joke you are. Now your saying that Indian's are leading an Anti-Pakistan campragn on this forum when you are the one starting Anti-India thread every day. Man you have lost all your arguments and now your coming down to crying like a baby. You whole website is an Anti-India website and you talk about neutrality on the web, what a joke. You have now been debunked so many times that you have lost track of your own postings and now you again change the topic to everybody ostracizing you here. You are easily the leader of the pack when it comes to Anti-India propaganda but sadly to say its not worked and your lies have been exposed as ever. Now stop quoting fabricated material from your musings, other people here can also read and write. And dont try to play the self pity card because you deserve w.e. your getting.

 

[karan.1970]

If you read my post that started this thread and the links I have provided, it is clear that I have tried to be as objective as possible in my comparison of the two neighbors. If you bother to read it again, you will realize how balanced it is. But you have latched on to the areas where I say Pakistan has done better than India and tried in vain to fight it with all your misguided patriotism.

Given what I have seen so far, I have to sadly conclude that you and many of your Indian cohorts here are part of an anti-Pakistan campaign through the media and cybersace that is described as follows by a former India top spy Vikram Sood:

"Covert action can be of various kinds. One is the paramilitary option, which is what the Pakistanis have been using against us. It is meant to hurt, destabilize or retaliate. The second is the psychological war option, which is a very potent and unseen force. It is an all weather option and constitutes essentially changing perceptions of friends and foes alike. The media is a favorite instrument, provided it is not left to the bureaucrats because then we will end up with some clumsy and implausible propaganda effort. More than the electronic and print media, it is now the internet and YouTube that can be the next-generation weapons of psychological war. Terrorists use these liberally and so should those required to counter terrorism."

Haq's Musings: India's Covert War in Pakistan

I will keep it brief..
1. I am not against you showing India worse than Pakistan (and it is in certain areas) thru objective and real data
2. I am against you using selectively edited articles by 3rd parties to insinuate the above in the areas where its not and you have done this in abundance in this thread
3. If you call a group of Indians reacting in the same manner to your anti India rants as mob mentality, then so be it
4. I havent started this thread.. You have ... so who is running a anti India campaign is fairly obvious. Once someone goes thru rest of your threads, it becomes a no brainer anyway...

Sadly, what could have been a great discussion, has been ruined by unfortunate use of selective editing to score points.. I suggest, lets leave it at this without making it worse...