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Comparing India and Pakistan 2010

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This is video about India's rise from ABC news, unlike your sources ABC is a very trusted news agency in the United States and the world. Are you somehow now going to criticize ABC also and call it biased too?

And ya be sure not to miss the part when he says "India is a miracle"
 
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Now you are simply whining.. Dude.. You tried to massage that data a little bit to make your arguement stronger.. Used partial articles to convey a different conclusion than what the author intended and got caught with your hand in the cookie jar. that's all right... ..But now dont act like a priest who when caught in a brothel starts blaming the people for not believing that he came there to sermonize the ladies.. :azn:

Lets move on... btw.. none of my posts either calls India a super power or Pakistan a failed state and niether have i initiated comparison threads to show who is better off...Actually its the other way round where you have been trying to prove that India is a failed state (there is a thread that you created with the similar name) and Pakistan is better than India. So again, dont play the martyr here...And pardon me for not taking your conclusion on India and Pakistan simply because of you having had the opportunity to see both countries. You may have had the opportunity to form an objective opinion, but I dont believe you have the objective mindset to form one...

Unlike your wild and baseless commentary, everything I have said here is backed by tons of data from credible sources, including reliable Indian sources. I have quoted Manmohan Singh, Syeda Hameed, Bharat Verma and others through out this thread.

It's you who has tried to personalize this thread by making false accusations against me personally, while enlisting your buddies to add to your noise to distract attention from the core and factual information I have presented. You are responsible for this thread degenerating with all of the nonsense you have spewed while I have tried to keep it focused on issues.

I know you have not explicitly said "India is a superpower and Pakistan a failed state", the undercurrent of your commentary and that of your buddies implies exactly that. Your outright rejection of the existence of this theme in Dalrymple's video reinforces the perception that you are out to show Pakistan as a failed state, and India a superpower.

My thread about India as failed state is based on factual information about Indian state's inability to provide the very basic necessities such as food and security to its people, and its loss of control of 25%-40% of its territory by various estimates. The rising death toll in the Maoists held areas, and the deployment of 100,000 troops to quell the Maoists insurgency are proof of the lack of security for hundreds of millions of people in India. I invite you to read it again.

Haq's Musings: Are India and Pakistan Failed States?

I have backed my assertions with data from Indian sources such as Syeda Hameed of the planning commission, and Indian analyst Bharat Verma. And I have given you links to the sources.

Please refrain from further personal attacks as they neither contribute to healthy debate, nor do they reflect well on you and the country you love.

Please learn to disagree without being disagreeable!
 
The same magazine that published the failed state index showing Pakistan at #10, also calls India "roaring capitalist success story".

Here's Pankaj Mishra busting the myths of India as "Peaceful, Stable and Prosperous":

Apparently, no inconvenient truths are allowed to mar what Foreign Affairs, the foreign policy journal of America's elite, has declared a "roaring capitalist success story". Add Bollywood's singing and dancing stars, beauty queens and Booker prize-winning writers to the Tatas, the Mittals and the IT tycoons, and the picture of Indian confidence, vigour and felicity is complete.

The passive consumer of this image, already puzzled by recurring reports of explosions in Indian cities, may be startled to learn from the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) in Washington that the death toll from terrorist attacks in India between January 2004 and March 2007 was 3,674, second only to that in Iraq. (In the same period, 1,000 died as a result of such attacks in Pakistan, the "most dangerous place on earth" according to the Economist, Newsweek and other vendors of geopolitical insight.)

Pankaj Mishra: Violence runs through this 'stable' India, built on poverty and injustice | World news | The Guardian
 
Unlike your wild and baseless commentary, everything I have said here is backed by tons of data from credible sources, including reliable Indian sources. I have quoted Manmohan Singh, Syeda Hameed, Bharat Verma and others through out this thread.

It's you who has tried to personalize this thread by making false accusations against me personally, while enlisting your buddies to add to your noise to distract attention from the core and factual information I have presented. You are responsible for this thread degenerating with all of the nonsense you have spewed while I have tried to keep it focused on issues.

I know you have not explicitly said "India is a superpower and Pakistan a failed state", the undercurrent of your commentary and that of your buddies implies exactly that. Your outright rejection of the existence of this theme in Dalrymple's video reinforces the perception that you are out to show Pakistan as a failed state, and India a superpower.

My thread about India as failed state is based on factual information about Indian state's inability to provide the very basic necessities such as food and security to its people, and its loss of control of 25%-40% of its territory by various estimates. The rising death toll in the Maoists held areas, and the deployment of 100,000 troops to quell the Maoists insurgency are proof of the lack of security for hundreds of millions of people in India. I invite you to read it again.

Haq's Musings: Are India and Pakistan Failed States?

I have backed my assertions with data from Indian sources such as Syeda Hameed of the planning commission, and Indian analyst Bharat Verma. And I have given you links to the sources.

Please refrain from further personal attacks as they neither contribute to healthy debate, nor do they reflect well on you and the country you love.

Please learn to disagree without being disagreeable!
Again your crying continues but you cease to understand why everyone here is after you. Your articles are WRONG , you are cutting out pieces and conveniently focusing on the negative aspects. You have not answered any of the question properly and have continued on your stupid rhetoric about poverty. We all know what the problems are and don’t need a whitewashed fraud to tell us that. If you actually just posted to point out India’s problem’s it would have been acceptable but your post are clearly written to gather an audience of India haters and hurt the emotions of Indians. You post areticles from institutions such as International Food Policy Research Institute which is itself not a recognized organization. It is a private firm who aims to sell its consultancy services for a profit. Its reports are known to be way off so encourage the use of its own products. Again credibility down the drain. Dalrymple's continued failure in analyzing anything and the respect he gets from his own peers speask for how much his opinion matters. None of the articles posted use correct statistics and 90% of them are outdated. You so cleverly call Pakistan better than India and forget what the ground realities are there. I was supposed to visit Islamabad again in October by my company Textron has cancelled all official visits to the country keeping in mind the hugely volatile situation. On the same time Textron will open a new research center in Navi Mumbai in 2013, upon which I plan to move back also. This is the difference between India and Pakistan. You will continue to get targeted personally until and unless you stop posting fraudulent articles and Statistics. You cannot slap a person and then not get expected to get slapped back.
 
You are responsible for this thread degenerating with all of the nonsense you have spewed while I have tried to keep it focused on issues.
Yes, yes. You are the victim. We all get that madrassa logic.

Now stop whining and go back to doing what you do best - opening threads with carefully cherry picked data.
 
The same magazine that published the failed state index showing Pakistan at #10, also calls India "roaring capitalist success story".

Here's Pankaj Mishra busting the myths of India as "Peaceful, Stable and Prosperous":

Apparently, no inconvenient truths are allowed to mar what Foreign Affairs, the foreign policy journal of America's elite, has declared a "roaring capitalist success story". Add Bollywood's singing and dancing stars, beauty queens and Booker prize-winning writers to the Tatas, the Mittals and the IT tycoons, and the picture of Indian confidence, vigour and felicity is complete.

The passive consumer of this image, already puzzled by recurring reports of explosions in Indian cities, may be startled to learn from the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) in Washington that the death toll from terrorist attacks in India between January 2004 and March 2007 was 3,674, second only to that in Iraq. (In the same period, 1,000 died as a result of such attacks in Pakistan, the "most dangerous place on earth" according to the Economist, Newsweek and other vendors of geopolitical insight.)

Pankaj Mishra: Violence runs through this 'stable' India, built on poverty and injustice | World news | The Guardian

no one has stated pakistan a dangerous state... there is difference between a failed state and dangerous state.... I have already shown in my thread of 'world Facts and Figures' that pakistan is not in top ten dangerous states...

why are you feeling so insecure about your country .....
and keep on defending your nation not being a dangerous state...it might be due to you are feeling from inside that pakistan is a dangerous country:victory::victory:
 
The same magazine that published the failed state index showing Pakistan at #10, also calls India "roaring capitalist success story".

Here's Pankaj Mishra busting the myths of India as "Peaceful, Stable and Prosperous":

Apparently, no inconvenient truths are allowed to mar what Foreign Affairs, the foreign policy journal of America's elite, has declared a "roaring capitalist success story". Add Bollywood's singing and dancing stars, beauty queens and Booker prize-winning writers to the Tatas, the Mittals and the IT tycoons, and the picture of Indian confidence, vigour and felicity is complete.

The passive consumer of this image, already puzzled by recurring reports of explosions in Indian cities, may be startled to learn from the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) in Washington that the death toll from terrorist attacks in India between January 2004 and March 2007 was 3,674, second only to that in Iraq. (In the same period, 1,000 died as a result of such attacks in Pakistan, the "most dangerous place on earth" according to the Economist, Newsweek and other vendors of geopolitical insight.)

Pankaj Mishra: Violence runs through this 'stable' India, built on poverty and injustice | World news | The Guardian

ohh ya Pankaj Mishra very neutral, seriously read something about the author before you post. Pankaj Mishra is a known critic of everything that is India and has been heavily criticized by even the American Press for being overly overdramatic and sometimes coming to conclusions way too soon. His anti-India rhetoric has been many times questioned and his famous "Sikh Killing" episode made him a joke in the literary community. Again this before you post Mr.Haq.
 

Listen to what he says once before you post the next idotic musing
 
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Here is pakistani news paper

Failed State Index 2009 - Pakistan at 10th — Pro-Pakistan

Pakistan is listed at 10th in the Failed State 2009 Index. Placed ninth among all countries last year in terms of its overall achievement, has improved its position only by a notch - it is placed 10th in the index for 2009 published in the July-August issue of the journal.

The ranking is done on the basis of the following factors: demographic pressure, refugees/internally displaced persons (IDPs), group grievance, uneven development, economic decline, delegitimisation of the state, public service, human rights, factionalised elites and external intervention.

The top 10 failed states in the latest list are: Somalia, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Chad, Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Central African Republic, Guinea and Pakistan.
 
Your articles are WRONG , you are cutting out pieces and conveniently focusing on the negative aspects.

I know! I know!

I finally got it!

Anything that pricks your inflated Indian ego by drawing attention to India's extreme poverty, widespread hunger, near total absence of sanitation, high levels of malnourished children, multiple violent insurgencies, widening rich-poor gap, growing female genocide, caste apartheid against dalits, mass killing of minorities in WRONG.

But I am glad all Indians aren't like you. There are a few realists, like the guy who wrote the following blog:

A Zillion reasons to escape from India
 
And if you really like Pankaj Mishra - Here is an article about Pakistan from him, Let see how much you agree this time

Obama's bulldozer risks turning the Taliban into Pakistan's Khmer RougeUnless the US president can break his hardline posture, the wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan could prove his Vietnam

Last month Richard Holbrooke, the US state department's special representative, met students from Pakistan's north-west tribal *areas. They were *enraged by drone attacks, which – *according to David Kilcullen, counterinsurgency adviser to General Petraeus – have eliminated only about 14 terrorist leaders while killing 700 civilians. One young man told Holbrooke that he knew someone killed in a Predator drone strike. "You killed 10 members of his family," he said. *Another claimed that the strikes had unleashed a fresh wave of refugees. "Are many of them Taliban?" Holbrooke asked. "We are all Taliban," he replied.

Describing this scene in Time, Joe Klein said he was shocked by the declaration, though he recognised it as one "of solidarity, not affiliation". He was also bewildered by the "mixed loyalties and deep resentments [that] make Pakistan so difficult to handle". One wishes Klein had paused to wonder if people anywhere else would wholeheartedly support a foreign power that "collaterally" murders 50 relatives and friends from the air for every militant killed.

Much has been made of Pakistan's "denial" about the threat posed by the Taliban rather than India; correspondingly, western politicians and commentators have applauded the Pakistani military operation in Swat valley that has exposed 3 million people to what Human Rights Watch calls a humanitarian catastrophe. Relatively little attention has been given to America's more damaging evasion of the fact that most people in Pakistan, a "frontline" country in the war on terror, are unsympathetic, if not actively hostile, to it.

Political bitterness rather than racial or religious supremacism fuels this variant of anti-Americanism. Twice in three decades the US has enlisted military dictators in Pakistan to fight its battles – most damagingly in the cold war when, as Barack Obama conceded recently in Cairo, the US heedlessly deployed Muslims as proxies against Soviet communism. Many Pakistanis remember how the blowback from the CIA's anti-Soviet jihad in Afghanistan (millions of Afghan refugees, a rampant Kalashnikov "culture", and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism) ravaged their country, years before it crashed into the US itself on 11 September 2001. Pakistanis now accuse the US, again not unreasonably, for pursuing its failed war on terror in Afghanistan into Pakistan, reinvigorating the extremists it had helped to spawn.

Though beholden to American aid, Pakistan's civilian-military elite has been naturally reluctant to fight too hard to redeem the blunders of an overweening and unreliable ally; covertly supporting extremist groups, elements in the army and intelligence have tried to maintain their room for manoeuvre in both Afghanistan and Kashmir. Occasionally, as in Swat and now again in Waziristan, intense American pressure yields a military assault. It can even attract a degree of public support, as most Pakistanis are appalled by the brutality of Talibanised Pashtuns.

But this does not amount to popular endorsement of drone attacks. Last month Fareed Zakaria informed Jon Stewart on the Daily Show that Pakistan is emerging from its state of denial since his Pakistani friends, who previously opposed the drone attacks, now tell him: "You know what? If that's the only thing that will work, kill those guys." Some members of Pakistan's tiny elite, where Zakaria's native informants come from, may long to exterminate the brutes: they fear, often correctly, Islamic extremists as embodying the rage and frustration of the country's underprivileged majority. But as the suffering of civilians in Swat becomes known, the highly qualified public support for military action will wane quickly.

Certainly, claims of success in Swat are premature. The Taliban may *vanish in order to regroup as they did after their apparently decisive defeat in Afghanistan in 2001. Furthermore, the refugee crisis can only strengthen the Taliban. Their pied pipers of jihad, nursed on hatred in refugee camps, will easily recruit suicide-bombers among the freshly uprooted millions. Pakistan will suffer many more attacks of the kind we have seen in recent days.

But all is not lost. The idea that Pakistan, with its ethnically and politically diverse population of Punjabis, Sindhis, and Balochs, is ready to surrender to fanatics led by Pashtuns is a paranoid fantasy – easily dispelled by the briefest scrutiny of structures of religious and political power, and indeed recent election results, in any region of Pakistan.

As Mohsin Hamid recently pointed out, Pakistan's apparently failed state is more than capable of dealing with violent extremists if it can sort out its mixed loyalties. Institutionally distrustful of the US, which recently turned India into its main Asian ally with an extravagant nuclear deal, Pakistan has continued to incite extremists against the America-backed, pro-India regime in Kabul and Indian interests in Kashmir. However, much of the strength of the duplicitous intelligence agency, the ISI, derives from its claim to protect what even moderate Pakistanis regard as their country's legitimate interests in Afghanistan and Kashmir – national interests that, as Obama partly admitted in Cairo, America's overriding geopolitical priorities have often rendered illicit, driving them underground.

The US has the opportunity to shrink the ISI's malign role and redeem its standing among Pakistanis by urging India and Pakistan to a comprehensive political solution in Kashmir and by explicitly acknowledging that Pakistan, which shares a long border and a large Pashtun population with Afghanistan, will never tolerate a hostile ruler in Kabul, especially if backed by India.

Abandoned by their American allies after the anti-Soviet jihad, some of Pakistan's megalomaniac generals sought "strategic depth" in Afghanistan against India; even their sober successors are unlikely to affect indifference to their volatile neighbor. Having grudgingly admitted Iran's influence in Iraq, tThe US will eventually have to trust Pakistan to control its proxies in Afghanistan – a crucial component of any *"regional" solution. The US can reasonably expect responsible behaviour from Islamabad only if – as with Iran – it treats Pakistan as a power with inalienable interests, rather than as a nuclear-armed "rogue" state. Obama could then expedite the inevitable task of drawing up a timetable for the withdrawal of combat troops from Afghanistan.

Deprived of their main antagonists, the Taliban are unlikely to collectively embrace Sufism. But ending the occupation of Afghanistan would dry up their main source of legitimacy and support, and undermine their loose alliance with al-Qaida. It is no accident that Afghan Pashtuns have not been implicated in any international terrorist conspiracies even as many of them fight Nato troops in Afghanistan. The Obama administration should consider the possibility that, as Graham Fuller, the CIA's forer station chief in Kabul puts it, few Pashtuns "will long maintain a radical and international jihadi perspective once the incitement of the US presence is gone."

Obama came to power, however, promising to exert brawn in Afghanistan rather than Iraq. Even his harshest Republican critics, including Dick Cheney, have applauded his recent military "surge". Admiral Mike Mullen, the US joint chief of staff , admitted that intensified action in Afghanistan could push the Taliban deeper into Pakistan, further destabilising the country. Whether Obama, who is probably aware of the dangers of turning the Taliban into Pakistan's Khmer Rouge, can break out of his hardline posture remains to be seen. But it is clear that, regardless of what Obama does with healthcare and financial reform, the wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan will define his presidency just as Vietnam tainted Lyndon Johnson's achievement with civil rights.
 
Indians are on to it again. Little kids. Using the media which has a certain agenda as their source. What more can we expect.

Listen kids, let's make something clear. The media you quote. That media is controlled by certain groups who want people to see the world in a certain way. OK kids?

Secondly, the failed state index is not impartial either. It has indians on their panel. Then secondly, by their own admission, they use media articles to come up with their rankings. You kids now know about the media, so that makes the whole rankings impartial and biased.
 
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