COMAC ARJ21 Regional Jet

[Indos]

ARJ-21 will be certified by FAA, it just a matter of time. The American purposely refused it to stiff out compettition. It has all the attributes to be certified by FAA including the most critical freezing condition documented well. Not many aircraft are capable to do that besides plane made by Boeing and airbus. By the way, we have an aircraft called Y12F currently approved by FAA to be sold in USA. More or less prove China aircraft capabilities.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...aft-y12f-succeeded-with-faa-tc-300226966.html

Below is ARJ-21 development video including the de-icing test that is one of the most difficult hurdle to pass for passenger aircraft.

You can have the best designers but a lousy aircraft industries. End of the day, you can't produced the correct air frame to achieve the sturdiness and light weight or the powerful and efficient engine to power your plane. You must have a powerful manufacturing industries to materialize the design.

I know that, my post doesnt undermine enginers in production department, they are also very important.

So now you acknowledge those things about FAA and designers.

Yup, we lack on engine but it is also due to Asian Financial crisis that mostly affect Indonesia that make us delay turbofan designing and production.

Our aerospace company also has the desire to produce engine but they are focusing on turbine production for power plant currently (Subsidiary)

 

[Genesis]

I think you misunderstand a little. The demand for commercial jet plane of this class is high in this country. The market is there. But it doesn't mean that this specific one is the only one that gonna enter the market. It also have to compete with others.
And when talking about quality, keep in mind for airliners it's not just about quailty of the product. If the product already enter market it means that the quality is already good. What matters are quality and accessibility of the service. Just Imagine if one owns an airline for indonesia domestic flight but to get the fleet service they have to go to a far away country....
Hence again i would say good luck

Well since neither Airbus nor Boeing is Indonesian, I'm sure they service in country. It's ridicules to service a plane in China from Indonesia. It's like a car dealership, you want to sell cars, you better have the money for dealerships.

I'm sure they will train, or build facilities for that in any country it goes to.

Low cost carrier seems to look on this plane. Indonesia Air Asia or Lion Air might have interest on the plane.

If there was no 1997-8 Asian financial crisis, Indonesia would be the first in Asia to make and market this type of plane. Search N 2130 aircraft (should have had its maiden flight in 2004)

Well that did happen, if China had not been so poor, our Y-10 passenger plane would have flown some 25 years ago, but it is what it is.

ARJ-21 will be certified by FAA, it just a matter of time. The American purposely refused it to stiff out compettition. It has all the attributes to be certified by FAA including the most critical freezing condition documented well. Not many aircraft are capable to do that besides plane made by Boeing and airbus. By the way, we have an aircraft called Y12F currently approved by FAA to be sold in USA. More or less prove China aircraft capabilities.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...aft-y12f-succeeded-with-faa-tc-300226966.html

Below is ARJ-21 development video including the de-icing test that is one of the most difficult hurdle to pass for passenger aircraft.

You are just beating around the bush to avoid my point. Indonesian aircraft industries is still infant stage compare to even China. The very fact is Indonesian is incapable to make a world class plane that meets FAA standard. Dont talk BS about supplies parts to US or West. Even India do that. What is the big deal? China been supplying US and Western countries for 20 years. It not a big feat. What makes you different is to design and make a world class passenger plane by your own industries that meets international standard and attains FAA cert.

It doesn't matter whether some of the designer is foreign. Most important is your own industries is able to support and build the sophisticated design becos that intellectual and knowledge all belongs to yours. Even Boeing has foreign designers. Does that means Boeing is incapable compare to Indonesia aircraft industries? What a joke!

You can have the best designers but a lousy aircraft industries. End of the day, you can't produced the correct air frame to achieve the sturdiness and light weight or the powerful and efficient engine to power your plane. You must have a powerful manufacturing industries to materialize the design.

What's the production rate for this plane? 300+ seems to be a big number to fill.

 

[jhungary]

Well since neither Airbus nor Boeing is Indonesian, I'm sure they service in country. It's ridicules to service a plane in China from Indonesia. It's like a car dealership, you want to sell cars, you better have the money for dealerships.

I'm sure they will train, or build facilities for that in any country it goes to.

With respect, you are wrong...........

Before my brother joined the Boeing Team, he worked in Hong Kong as a senior engineer for HAESL.

You can only do a check (A, B, C or D) to an authorised maintenance centre which technician and engineer like my brother have type certificate for that specific aircraft. To do that, you will have to trained by either their head office (In my brother case, Rolls Royce) or their authorised service hubs (Which was in Australia at the time my brother work in HAESL)

Airline send their mechanic and engineer to train with the manufacturer or their authorised service hub before they are allowed to even touch the aircraft. It took a while to be fully certified by the manufacturer, it took anywhere between 6 months to 2 years (Depends on sections)

Now, unless Indonesian already have 3 teams (Day, nigh, Late shift, approximately 50 people) that were fully trained by the CAIC, they cannot service these aircraft until they have the people. Which mean any A, B, C, D Check have to be done in China.

Boeing and Airbus is different, they have training school all over the world and airline do send their mechanic to their hubs or HQ for type certification.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

In fact the ARJ-21 is a very well design and constructed plane with many Intellectual Property Rights.

No question about its safety or them variants flying all over China or Asia in the near future.

Which is in fact good news for USA GE.

 

[Beast]

In fact the ARJ-21 is a very well design and constructed plane with many Intellectual Property Rights.

No question about its safety or them variants flying all over China or Asia in the near future.

Which is in fact good news for USA GE.

The problem is AVIC needs to ramp up the production fast to meet the demand.

 

[TaiShang]

Both Pilot and Co-Pilot is Indonesian Nationality.

Data for Pilot and Co-pilot.

Pilot in command

Gender : Male
Age : 55 years
Nationality : Indonesia
License : ATPL
Date of issue : 29 January 1983
Valid to : 23 May 2011
Aircraft type rating : Fokker F-100 and MA-60
Medical certificate : Class 1, with limitation shall possess glasses
that correct for near vision.
Date of medical : 22 November 2010
Valid to : 23 May 2011
Last proficiency check : 12 March 2011
Total hours : 24470 hours
Total on type : 199 hours 5 minutes
Last 90 days : 125 hours 1 minute
Last 7 days : 17 hours 35 minutes
Last 24 hours : 5 hours 45 minutes
This flight : 1 hour 03 minutes

The PIC joined the company in 1977 as co-pilot for DHC 6 Twin Otter aircraft,
operating in the Bali area. He was subsequently promoted to Fokker F27, Fokker
F28 and Fokker F100 (since 1994). He had 6982 flight hours experience in the
Fokker F100.
In 2010, the PIC commenced training on the MA60 aircraft and became a
qualified pilot in command on 13 January 2011.
The flight to Kaimana with the MA 60 was his fourth flight of the day.


Second in Command

Gender : Male
Age : 36 years
Nationality : Indonesia
License : CPL
Date of issue : 30 July 2007
Valid to : 31 December 2011
Aircraft type rating : MA 60
Medical certificate : Class 1, with limitation shall wear
corrective lenses
Date of medical : 20 December 2010
Valid to : 20 June 2011
Last proficiency check : 15 December 2010
Total hours : 370 hours 15 minutes
Total on type : 234 hours 25 minutes
Last 90 days : 167 hours 30 minutes
Last 7 days : 17 hours 35 minutes
Last 24 hours : 5 hours 45 minutes
This flight : 1 hour 03 minutes

From : Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee

Very informative posts, bro.

This shows that as important as product quality and maintenance is to set up a strong public relations office to manage the situation in times of problem/crisis. Otherwise, some media will blow things out of proportion, as we see quite often.

Hence, COMAC needs to overdo public relations like its Western rivals. The least we want is information pollution, confused and angry relatives, and crazy social media.

 

[aliaselin]

The world's least safe airlines for 2016 revealed


1) Batik Air from Indonesia

2) Bluewing Airlines from Suriname

3) Citilink from Indonesia

4) Kal-Star Aviation from Indonesia

5) Lion Air from Indonesia

6) Sriwijaya Air from Indonesia

7) TransNusa from Indonesia

8) Trigana Air Service from Indonesia

9) Wings Air from Indonesia

10) Xpress Air from Indonesia

@CAPRICORN-88 Thanks for the Information, bro.

I am in Indonesia use many of that Airlines daily.
How Crazy my life

I think Indonesian Transportation Department badly need to Improve their Regulations
to maintain security of Indonesian Citizens.
And for Indonesian Airlines, they need to Increase their Pilot and Flight Crew Quality

Well, this shows that the market in Indonesia is big but the management is far behind to be qualified. This is why I'm interested in FPAM's next step. They should set a good example in the vivid market.

 

[xunzi]

The world's least safe airlines for 2016 revealed


1) Batik Air from Indonesia

2) Bluewing Airlines from Suriname

3) Citilink from Indonesia

4) Kal-Star Aviation from Indonesia

5) Lion Air from Indonesia

6) Sriwijaya Air from Indonesia

7) TransNusa from Indonesia

8) Trigana Air Service from Indonesia

9) Wings Air from Indonesia

10) Xpress Air from Indonesia

@CAPRICORN-88 Thanks for the Information, bro.

I am in Indonesia use many of that Airlines daily.
How Crazy my life

I think Indonesian Transportation Department badly need to Improve their Regulations
to maintain security of Indonesian Citizens.
And for Indonesian Airlines, they need to Increase their Pilot and Flight Crew Quality

Is this even real? 9 out of 10? LOL

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Is this even real? 9 out of 10? LOL

Yes. It is REAL. Indonesia is a very dangerous country to fly and we all knew it.

 

[xunzi]

Yes. It is REAL. Indonesia is a very dangerous country to fly and we all knew it.

LOL Talking about a dog barking too loudly.

 

[Daniel808]

Very informative posts, bro.

This shows that as important as product quality and maintenance is to set up a strong public relations office to manage the situation in times of problem/crisis. Otherwise, some media will blow things out of proportion, as we see quite often.

Hence, COMAC needs to overdo public relations like its Western rivals. The least we want is information pollution, confused and angry relatives, and crazy social media.

Thanks, brother @TaiShang

Congratulations for COMAC
They would busy for next Several years.

Well, this shows that the market in Indonesia is big but the management is far behind to be qualified. This is why I'm interested in FPAM's next step. They should set a good example in the vivid market.

Main Problem is from Low Quality of Indonesian Human resource in Aviation Industry.
That's why, Many of Indonesian Airlines is the Most Dangerous in the World.

Is this even real? 9 out of 10? LOL

Real, and that's the Fact
Crazy Right?

The Positive one is
If we have Olympic with Category "The most Dangerous Airlines"
Indonesia Contigent will get Gold Medal. LOL

 

[Nike]

LoL, u got services from what u paid for

don't expect to getting five star treatment while paying only for rickshaw prices. It's not all about the low quality of Indonesian human resources or so, but the low cost carrier services race to getting as much as benefit meanwhile maintaining low prices.

meanwhile our Garuda Indonesia is getting 5 star rating since 2014

 

[jhungary]

LoL, u got services from what u paid for

don't expect to getting five star treatment while paying only for rickshaw prices. It's not all about the low quality of Indonesian human resources or so, but the low cost carrier services race to getting as much as benefit meanwhile maintaining low prices.

meanwhile our Garuda Indonesia is getting 5 star rating since 2014

Why are you even responding to BS like that??

Just because someone say somewhere that 9 of 10 worst airline was in Indonesia, it does not necessarily mean that's true

Here are the list of 1/2 stars rating Airline from Skytrax (Skytrax is very popular in Airline Survey)

1 star

Koryo Air (North Korea)

2 stars

Bahamasair - Bahamas
Passengers saeem to agree with Skytrax here - the customer reviews on the same website give the airline an average 2/10.

"A two-star airline rating," Skytrax' website states, "normally signifies poorer or inconsistent standards of product and front-line staff service for the cabin service and the home-base airport environment."

Biman Bangladesh - Bangladesh
Customer rating: 5/10

Bulgaria Air - Bulgaria
Customer rating: 6/10

China United Airlines - China
Customer rating: 8/10 (from only two reviews)

Cubana Airlines - Cuba
Customer rating: 4/10

Iran Air - Iran
Customer rating: 5/10

Lion Air - Indonesia
Customer rating: 4/10

Mahan Air - Iran
Customer rating: 7/10 - shortly to be moving out of the two-star catgory perhaps?

Nepal Airlines - Nepal
Customer rating: 5/10 (from only two reviews)

Onur Air - Turkey
Customer rating: 5/10


Pegasus Airlines - Turkey
Customer rating: 5/10


Rossiya Airlines - Russia
Customer rating: 5/10

"Meal service is the worst in the air."

Ryanair - Ireland
Customer rating: 5/10


SmartWings - Czech Republic
Customer rating: 5/10


Spirit Airlines - USA
Customer rating: 3/10


Sudan Airways - Sudan
Customer rating: 1/10 (from only one review)


Syrianair - Syria
Customer rating: 2/10


Tajik Air - Tajikistan
Customer rating: 0/10 (from only four reviews)

"The whole plane was as smelly - in brief the worst of all airlines."

Turkmenistan Airlines - Turkmenistan
Customer rating: 4/10


Ukraine Int'l Airlines - Ukraine
Customer rating: 5/10

Yemenia - Yemen
Customer rating: 4/10

As you say, you got what you pay for, RyanAir service is shit, but they are what they are, Low Cost Airline, if you want service, you have got to pay for it, it have nothing to do with safety record.

But you should have know better not to reply to these people anymore

 

[Beast]

Why are you even responding to BS like that??

Just because someone say somewhere that 9 of 10 worst airline was in Indonesia, it does not necessarily mean that's true

Here are the list of 1/2 stars rating Airline from Skytrax (Skytrax is very popular in Airline Survey)

1 star

Koryo Air (North Korea)

2 stars

Bahamasair - Bahamas
Passengers saeem to agree with Skytrax here - the customer reviews on the same website give the airline an average 2/10.

"A two-star airline rating," Skytrax' website states, "normally signifies poorer or inconsistent standards of product and front-line staff service for the cabin service and the home-base airport environment."

Biman Bangladesh - Bangladesh
Customer rating: 5/10

Bulgaria Air - Bulgaria
Customer rating: 6/10

China United Airlines - China
Customer rating: 8/10 (from only two reviews)

Cubana Airlines - Cuba
Customer rating: 4/10

Iran Air - Iran
Customer rating: 5/10

Lion Air - Indonesia
Customer rating: 4/10

Mahan Air - Iran
Customer rating: 7/10 - shortly to be moving out of the two-star catgory perhaps?

Nepal Airlines - Nepal
Customer rating: 5/10 (from only two reviews)

Onur Air - Turkey
Customer rating: 5/10


Pegasus Airlines - Turkey
Customer rating: 5/10


Rossiya Airlines - Russia
Customer rating: 5/10

"Meal service is the worst in the air."

Ryanair - Ireland
Customer rating: 5/10


SmartWings - Czech Republic
Customer rating: 5/10


Spirit Airlines - USA
Customer rating: 3/10


Sudan Airways - Sudan
Customer rating: 1/10 (from only one review)


Syrianair - Syria
Customer rating: 2/10


Tajik Air - Tajikistan
Customer rating: 0/10 (from only four reviews)

"The whole plane was as smelly - in brief the worst of all airlines."

Turkmenistan Airlines - Turkmenistan
Customer rating: 4/10


Ukraine Int'l Airlines - Ukraine
Customer rating: 5/10

Yemenia - Yemen
Customer rating: 4/10

As you say, you got what you pay for, RyanAir service is shit, but they are what they are, Low Cost Airline, if you want service, you have got to pay for it, it have nothing to do with safety record.

But you should have know better not to reply to these people anymore

It is truth, just that you cannot accept it. Why not you go take their merpati airline before talking nonsense.

 

[jhungary]

It is truth, just that you cannot accept it. Why not you go take their merpati airline before talking nonsense.

Did you? You ever flown in merpati before? Otherwise, how do you know?

In fact, how often did you travel by air? What give you the qualification to talk about Airline safety, or understand what contribute to aviation safety, I wondered?