Cold Start Doctrine: The Idea of Limited Scale War & South Asian Insecurity

[Baibars_1260]

both will get destroyed...and nuclear fall out will destroy a large chunk of asia

That is far more preferable to becoming enslaved to a cruel vicious, religiously fundamentalist state that seeks conquer and subject our women and children to the most horrible treatment.
Look what the Indian Army COAS had to say about treatment of Pakistani women if captured.
So Manekshaw actually feared rape of Pakistani women which he would not be able to control.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

That is far more preferable to becoming enslaved to a cruel vicious, religiously fundamentalist state that seeks conquer and subject our women and children to the most horrible treatment.
Look what the Indian Army COAS had to say about treatment of Pakistani women if captured.
So Manekshaw actually feared rape of Pakistani women which he would not be able to control.

View attachment 721539

nothing of that sort indicated in the article...Sam Manekshaw just didnot want the rerun of what happened in many battlefields in eras past, within and without South Asia...But yes I do see an eventual nuclear war coming in South Asia and then spreading outwards

at least india and their religion dies with them. islam will go on.

which religion are you talking about?.......All the major religions of the world have global footprint..Heck even Jews survived for nearly 1900 years after their homeland was made inaccessible to them.....and we donot know the new religions of the 21st century, that will probably centre around AI

 

[arjunk]

CSD will fail because:

• Superior mobilisation speed of Pak army
• India cannot move too many soldiers from the Eastern command area to the Northwestern command area, because of China.
• India risks striking Chinese people, if they opt for an all out crippling conventional attack. This will anger China.
• Indian EW capability is terrible, though they have learned some lessons from two years ago.
• All India will be able to capture is desert sand on the outskirts of Sindh and South Punjab. If IBGs even pose a remote threat to the green belt or fertile lands of Punjab, the IBGs in question will be vaporised via Nasr.
  • This sort of desert land is totally useless in negotiations. Even in 1971, India captured about 10,000km2 of desert land in Sindh, not to mention assisted in breaking East Pakistan off. However, after negotiations, they ended up ceding not only this desert land, but also Chamb to Pakistan and returning 90,000 PoWs.
  • Because of nukes, it will never escalate to a crisis like situation of 1971. So Indian occupied desert land will be even more useless than it was in 1971
• CSD is impossible to execute in most of Pakistan:
  • Southern Sindh is protected with the Indus delta and Kutch wasteland. Karachi also has some hills as a natural barrier.
  • Northern Punjab is densely populated, civilians are armed, canals everywhere. Nightmare for tanks.
  • Kashmir/GB is too mountainous to launch large offensives without massive manpower commitments which will leave other areas vulnerable.
  • That leaves South Punjab/Northern Sindh. Even here, Rahim Yar Khan is very close to the Indian border. Other than that, most of Eastern Sindh is useless, undeveloped desert land.
• PAF. PAF will bomb the shit out of Indian troops. Mirages and a lot of JF-17s are solely dedicated for this purpouse. The remaining F-16s and JF-17s will deal with the IAF.

 

[bahadur]

The author notes that the idea of the CSD in India launched after “Operation Parakram”; the operation was followed by 2001 terror attacks on the Indian Parliament, suspected to be sponsored by Pakistan, and thus in 2004, India developed its Cold Start Doctrine.

Pakistan and India have historically been engaged in several armed struggles against each other, but the post-1998 scenario heightened the tensions between these nuclear states.

India’s military strategy of CSD envisions conducting a limited-scale war much below the nuclear threshold to minimize the chances of escalation.

Read More: https://www.paradigmshift.com.pk/cold-start-doctrine/

To submit your articles and research papers, please click here: https://www.paradigmshift.com.pk/submit-articles/

#Pakistan #India #CSD #ColdStartDoctrine #WWII #OperationParakram #Blitzkrieg #ParadigmShift

keep it up.

 

[Bouncer]

worked superbly ...
12 Mirage2000s went inside LOC under the nose of hi alert PAF, targeted and guided and destroyed the 4 terrorists compounds filled with terrorists in balakote in north western state of pakistan less than 100 kms north west of their capital pakistan...
no PAF fighter came to challenge Indian strike package...
all in all excellently done...
2 year are passed pakistani military got the message...

"Mun maar k mukka tor diya"

 

[TNT]

Pakistani Tactical Nuclear weapons are like you get into a fight with an with an opponent who has a sledgehammer in his hand and you start the fight by hitting him with a tinny stick. After that, Pakistan will hope that the opponent play fair and find a tinny stick to hit back. But the opponent has nothing but a big sledge hammer to retaliate ...

Ur a dumb indian and ur analogy is even dumber.
U take a sledgehammer and i get a nice elastic stick and lets face off. I swear the beating ull get will be hilarious while u wont even be able to hit once with a heavy sledgehammer.

 

[Baibars_1260]

nothing of that sort indicated in the article...Sam Manekshaw just didnot want the rerun of what happened in many battlefields in eras past, within and without South Asia.

Read the text of the article again:
( Link )

"Mankeshaw did not want Indian Army to get into the brutal trend of dishonoring and raping women in a defeated land. So he advised his army "

So there had been a "brutal trend" of rapes by the Indian Army and Manekshaw feared mistreatment of Muslim Pakistani women in captured territory which is why he used the term "'Begum " commonly referred to a married Muslim lady.

There is a strong possibility that as part of the CSD, if Pakistani territory falls into Indian hands women will be dishonored. The IA now infected with Hindutva hysteria already has a plan like the Japanese treatment of the population of Nanking in case Multan is taken.

We would rather nuke ourselves and the enemy along with us.

 

[Khan vilatey]

Exactly.. why would you start with a stick when you have a sledgehammer?

Even if in a parallel universe, if India decides not to retaliate to a tactical nuclear attack, Pakistani will face an international hammering on economy, politics and can kiss a good bye to Kashmir issue.. That only if India decides not to retaliate..

By the way, are there Pakistanis who think that India will not retaliate to a nuclear attack?? Would love to meet those guys some day understand their Psyche

here is a different view. There is thinking in India that Pakistan will only use tactical weapons. The more real scenario

scenario
India conducts a false flag operation in Kashmir like pulwama and loses say 50 soldiers.

India attempts a feb 26th like operation but this time ends up losing 3-4 aircraft and the debris of these aircraft kills 10-15 Pakistani Civilians

Pakistan retaliated killing 100s of Indian troops on the border at the tit for tat Indian loses 8-12 aircraft while Pakistan loses 2-3 aircraft (1:4 ratio from previous conflicts)

India is incensed and retaliates by using a strike of Bhamose against sargodah

Pakistan lacking the capability to detect the Type of attack commits to total strategic retaliation. Hitting all cities and troop concentrations in India with over a million population.

option 1)
india at that time May or may not retaliate

Option 2)
or say India retaliates with its second strike capability. 90% of Pakistan’s largest cites are destroyed smaller cites are not

Result:
the Chinese March over India and take over India as a Chinese colony with remaining Pakistani forces.

Scenario 2
India conducts a false flag operation in Kashmir like pulwama and loses say 50 soldiers.

India attempts a feb 26th like operation but this time ends up losing 3-4 aircraft and the debris of these aircraft kills 10-15 Pakistani Civilians

Pakistan retaliated killing 100s of Indian troops on the border at the tit for tat Indian loses 8-12 aircraft while Pakistan loses 2-3 aircraft (1:4 ratio from previous conflicts)

India is incensed and retaliates by activists trying cold start

option1) as Pakistan is now keeping a close eye on India the integrated battle groups are met with an extreme response from Pakistan’s strike corps, which is already semi deployed. Without any air superiority in Pakistani air space these units are hunted from land, air , drones and mrls. Over 90% losses are seen a lot like 1962 when uptown brigadier were arrested.

Option 2) Pakistan effectively defends and then moves its strike corps into Rajestan and kach deserts. Indian holding corps are shocked, the Chinese move significant forces forward forcing India to reposition its strik element towards north. The landing corps is badly hit and paksitan captures significant land all the way till Amritsar and beyond. At this point Pakistan’s supply lines and equipment is stretched thin. It can somewhat hold territory but can not afford to move further. Elements of Indian strike corps tries to stop Pakistan and are realigned from Kashmir and facing north but unfortunately this means a massive Paskiatni Chinese assault in Kashmir snd anchal pardesh and 70% territory losses in Kashmir.

India is incensed and commits to total nuclear strike against China and Pakistan but due to limited warheads mange’s all major cities in Pakistan and two of China’s main cities

Pakistan lacking the capability to detect the Type of attack commits to total strategic retaliation. Hitting all cities and troop concentrations in India with over a million population.


Result:
the Chinese March I over India and take over India as a Chinese colony with remaining Pakistani forces.

So the question to ask is if India turns into a Chinese colony no matter what . why do so many Pakistanis die in the process.
Easier solution would be to solve sir creek snd Kashmir with Paksitan, leave Saichin and DBO and let Kashmir be demilitarized and kept on the back burner for 50 years.

increase trade with Pakistan and China and help our region successfully become an economical super power taking all our people out of poverty.

k

 

[Baibars_1260]

Easier solution would be to solve sir creek snd Kashmir with Paksitan, leave Saichin and DBO and let Kashmir be demilitarized and kept on the back burner for 50 years.

For India it is not Kashmir which is the problem but the existence of Pakistan and the presence of Muslims in the subcontinent.
The Hindutva mindset gripping the masses, and the political set up is hell bent on first the destruction of Pakistan and then the elimination of the Muslims of the sub-continent.

 

[lightoftruth]

Pakistan has more warheads then India according to almost every reliable western source. Granted you are a bigger country, but end of Pakistan will, by default, cause the end of India

You sure about that ?
Just look at the no of delivery platforms of each country and tell me who has more ?
Whose economy gives it a boost to manufacture more such platforms ?
Who has more fissile material ?
Who has thermonuclear warheads ?
Has India ever talked about the number ?

 

[Khan vilatey]

You sure about that ? Yes
Just look at the no of delivery platforms of
each country and tell me who has more ? Pakistan has more operational
Whose economy gives it a boost to manufacture more such platforms ? China
Who has more fissile material ? Pakistan
Who has thermonuclear warheads ? pakistan has uranium and plutonium sprinkled with tatrainum it makes a bigger boom. Almost all experts agree that Pakistan has more 180 warheads to India’s 90
Has India ever talked about the number ? But the world has and almost all experts agree that Indian nuclear weapons are inferior to the Pakistani program.

 

[lightoftruth]

You sure about that ? Yes
Just look at the no of delivery platforms of
each country and tell me who has more ? Pakistan has more operational
Whose economy gives it a boost to manufacture more such platforms ? China
Who has more fissile material ? Pakistan
Who has thermonuclear warheads ? pakistan has uranium and plutonium sprinkled with tatrainum it makes a bigger boom. Almost all experts agree that Pakistan has more 180 warheads to India’s 90
Has India ever talked about the number ? But the world has and almost all experts agree that Indian nuclear weapons are inferior to the Pakistani program.

I really hope your nuclear command thinks the same.

 

[waz]

This topic has been discussed in various threads:

1. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/geographical-representation-of-cold-start-doctrine.531463/

2. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cold...as-military-strategy-against-pakistan.519208/

3. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-non-nuclear-plan-to-counter-cold-start.485506/

4. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-cold-start-doctrine-watch.252922/

5. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cold...n-by-lt-gen-r-tariq-khan.473601/#post-9126886

This thread has been done before please see the post @Signalian made earlier.
Closed.