Coercion Sabotage Or Incompetence :---

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The question I have been thinking for over the last 15 1/2 years since 9 / 11 and I could not find a reasonable answer to that is---" why did the Paf not buy a potent fighter aircraft right after agreeing to the alliance with the USA after sept 26---9 / 11.

The F16's were in a sorry state---almost ready to fall out of the skies---. Paf had woefully depleted assets due to sanctions---it did not even show up for a major battle happening at Kargil---and yet when the opportune moment arrived---there was no urgency shown to make the dash to get the aircraft.

Was the Paf worried that if they procured the right aircraft---the army would start a war with india---?

Was the Paf scared of engaging the indian air force if the army got into a war---?

Or was it coerced by another " party " to hold on tight and do nothing.

As the tale of coercion of Gen Kiyani with the U S govt is coming out---was there a similar action taking place between the Paf generals and the U S---was the U S forcing them to sit tight---or the Pakistan air force decided on its own not to build parity against the enemy air force assets---?

It is a baffling issue---an air force that was desperate yesterday and begging for the removal sanctions so desperately---so that they could get the right aircraft to protect the nation---did not avail the opportunity for 4 years and 6 months to sign the deal for the right aircraft---.

It is just like a heart patient desperately begging for heart surgery for 10 + years refusing to get it when it becomes available---.

 

[Alphacharlie]

Mastan Saab

Like to add one more leaf --- Pakistan could have asked 4 Sqns of F16 for Osama Bin Laden from US ?
after Sep 11 Hand Shake...

Holding Yanks by their Balls for issues which impacted their Presidency

Easily your Nation could have mopped up 150 Jet(s) + weapons !! with these 2 Deals

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Very simple and short answer " PAF is not attacking Force . Its Defensive Force with Air Denial Strategy " for that one don't need any new better , advance or heavy bird.

 

[volatile]

Like to add one more leaf --- Pakistan could have asked 4 Sqns of F16 for Osama Bin Laden from US ?
after Sep 11 Hand Shake...

Its a strategic blunder with society torn and divided even the force was in complete UTURN bcas it was one man decision it was like a car going @ 120 KM and you press handbrake and try to turn . For OSAMA IMO it was never intended to sell Afghan blood over money ,you may differ with me

Very simple and short answer " PAF is not attacking Force . Its Defensive Force with Air Denial Strategy " for that one don't need any new better , advance or heavy bird.

Sir best defense is offense

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Yet another tirade by MK. No substance, only conjecture, assumption, and pipe vision theories.

 

[ziaulislam]

Hi,

The question I have been thinking for over the last 15 1/2 years since 9 / 11 and I could not find a reasonable answer to that is---" why did the Paf not buy a potent fighter aircraft right after agreeing to the alliance with the USA after sept 26---9 / 11.

The F16's were in a sorry state---almost ready to fall out of the skies---. Paf had woefully depleted assets due to sanctions---it did not even show up for a major battle happening at Kargil---and yet when the opportune moment arrived---there was no urgency shown to make the dash to get the aircraft.

Was the Paf worried that if they procured the right aircraft---the army would start a war with india---?

Was the Paf scared of engaging the indian air force if the army got into a war---?

Or was it coerced by another " party " to hold on tight and do nothing.

As the tale of coercion of Gen Kiyani with the U S govt is coming out---was there a similar action taking place between the Paf generals and the U S---was the U S forcing them to sit tight---or the Pakistan air force decided on its own not to build parity against the enemy air force assets---?

It is a baffling issue---an air force that was desperate yesterday and begging for the removal sanctions so desperately---so that they could get the right aircraft to protect the nation---did not avail the opportunity for 4 years and 6 months to sign the deal for the right aircraft---.

It is just like a heart patient desperately begging for heart surgery for 10 + years refusing to get it when it becomes available---.

because we were in worst financial crisis in history in 1998-2003
-Mushi later in 2005 with some recovery start buying stuff for navy air force and PAF each getting good total of 10-12 billion dollars the prime fighter thought was f-16s and J-10s as rafale was expensive/unproven and typhoon not available, than came the earth quake and politics, Mushi was still a political govt, so yielded to that and scarified 2 billion dollars off PAF plate reducing the number from

36 upgrades+66 jets(36 new+refurbished)~100 F-16s+ 36 J-10+WEAPONS WORTH 600 MILLION DOLLARS(AIM 120C,AIM9)
TO
36 upgrades+14+18 ~63 F-16s+WEAPONS

the J-10 went down the drain when Zardari said what? no way

luckily the AWECs survived which due to gross incompetence of PAF were later lost

PS
from 1998 to 2003 PAF focused on getting its 90s era mirage 5/3 and f-7 PG upgraded and completed that were held after 1998 and we had the Thunder also running

I remeber multiple times Mushi pushing for f-16s and finally got them

I blame the political govt for failures
none has gotten anything from USA since mushi

 

[帅的一匹]

PAF need to hurry up, even BD is talking about 50 pops of J10b induction from China. they don't have cash in hands, they just ambitious enough. A strategic move by China to counter balance India influence in BD.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

below is the present state of our air force . Presented with the loftiest, opted for the worst !

View attachment 389386

You equate PAF to ostriches running around with Virtual reality googles? What happened? Was your entry pass to an airshow revoked, or you didn't get through ISSB? Either way, this is a gross under-estimation of a very capable fighting force.

 

[Areesh]

below is the present state of our air force . Presented with the loftiest, opted for the worst !

View attachment 389386

That is pathetic. Even I don't agree with a lot of policies of PAF but still using that GIF for such a professional fighting force is disgraceful.

 

[Skywalker]

You equate PAF to ostriches running around with Virtual reality googles? What happened? Was your entry pass to an airshow revoked, or you didn't get through ISSB? Either way, this is a gross under-estimation of a very capable fighting force.

Bhai sahib the world has moved lot further, it's not 80s and 90s anymore, this is a 21st century, PAF can't make people fool anymore with all the old shit about pilot skills. What the eff pilot s supposed to do if adversary is adding the best from right left and centre. No matter how patriotic and bigger fan of PAF I am, I just can't can't ignore the reality.

We had the qualitatively advantage in the past but we have already lost it and lost it miserably.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Wow , For some here now we even cant ask any question about what they are doing or what they have done in past.
And for all those who are crying out Money , Money............. Money was never a problem since 1995 to till .... only shock came in 1998 that's it........
And one more thing can any one here please check how much Ishaq Darr make after increasing Ptrao Prices only 1 Rupee our 5 times in 2 months????????????????????????
You will all have Idea how much money we have for new buying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
War Planning with Mindset , Thinking of Defensive Strategy will never worked , and you can see that in case of PAF .
Please tell me one thinking , What PAF will use for bombing enemy approaching Forces , What PAF will use to bomb our Advancing Forces and what PAF will use for Deep Strikes on Strategic Targets , What PAF will use to Defend our Own Air Space and Troops ????????????????????
People here say what will J-10 brings to PAF ? What advantage J-10 have over JF-17 , O come on man , Both Birds are totally different , body is different , characteristics are different , Role are different what else ??? Only sharing AESA Radar does not make them same !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What will replace Mirages ? What will replace F7s and What will replace almost 75 old upgraded (all of our F-16s been upgraded and have few years of life cycle left)??????????????? Yes our F-16 are getting old we cant use them for 30+ years after upgrading them again and again.......
Now Tell me , show me any plan or activity from PAF , what we have seen is only talking that's it.
You like it or not that's the truth !!!!!!! I will hate to see PAF with only JF-17 and very few F-16 with some talks for future 5th Gen Bird!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hassan Guy]

That could had killed the JF-17 program.

 

[Mentee]

Was your entry pass to an airshow revoked, or you didn't get through ISSB?

was it a try to show the civilian posters of this board their okaat? Lemme tell you somthing Mr 100% ,securing a roll number in the military school doesn't make you something out of this cosmos---

Everyone has his own personal interests so , if I or anyone for that matter is not a part of the armed forces, this thing doesn't warrant you to ridicule others . like in the case of Mastan khan and other learned posters , When these ex-servicemen and their civilian bootlickers (in their quest for some "inside info" , so they could stand with a beam inside their necks among other posters) couldn't provide any satisfactory explanation as to why our airforce had failed miserably to procure the much needed weapons in a timely manner? besides the plethora of blunders it brushed away under the carpet, only come up with personal insults.

" how dare a car sales man point finger at us "

"he prolly might had been dropped out of the issb" and other bla bla bla -------

P:S not been a fan of airplanes but only choppers so never been to any air show let Alone applying for the air force . Do I like army ? Yes! But never applied there as well . After all one can serve the nation by sticking to his field of interest,no?

PAF need to hurry up, even BD is talking about 50 pops of J10b induction from China. they don't have cash in hands, they just ambitious enough. A strategic move by China to counter balance India influence in BD.

sir we don't have funds , Bangladesh is in the league of first world countries. They can operate twin engine jets but not we. Furthermore j10-b or any inter-intergalactic craft doesn't bring anything new to our sorry excuse of a table ---------

 

[Counterpunch]

Observing the developments of past decade or so, it is clear we have realized in a war scenario involving our arch enemy India it would not be a conventional one for too long. And for the little time it will stay conventional our PAF packs a good enough punch. We have gone leaps and bounds in missile development (trust me no military declares all it possesses and what we have declared on this front is already impressive enough). This gives PAF the luxury to flirt around checking goodies to only settle for the best one (which they will put their hands on the moment they see) while they make satisfactory progress on JF17

So I have full confidence in PAF and those who are managing the military apparatus, that they know what they are doing

 

[dy1022]

Wow , For some here now we even cant ask any question about what they are doing or what they have done in past.
And for all those who are crying out Money , Money............. Money was never a problem since 1995 to till .... only shock came in 1998 that's it........
And one more thing can any one here please check how much Ishaq Darr make after increasing Ptrao Prices only 1 Rupee our 5 times in 2 months????????????????????????
You will all have Idea how much money we have for new buying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
War Planning with Mindset , Thinking of Defensive Strategy will never worked , and you can see that in case of PAF .
Please tell me one thinking , What PAF will use for bombing enemy approaching Forces , What PAF will use to bomb our Advancing Forces and what PAF will use for Deep Strikes on Strategic Targets , What PAF will use to Defend our Own Air Space and Troops ????????????????????
People here say what will J-10 brings to PAF ? What advantage J-10 have over JF-17 , O come on man , Both Birds are totally different , body is different , characteristics are different , Role are different what else ??? Only sharing AESA Radar does not make them same !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What will replace Mirages ? What will replace F7s and What will replace almost 75 old upgraded (all of our F-16s been upgraded and have few years of life cycle left)??????????????? Yes our F-16 are getting old we cant use them for 30+ years after upgrading them again and again.......
Now Tell me , show me any plan or activity from PAF , what we have seen is only talking that's it.
You like it or not that's the truth !!!!!!! I will hate to see PAF with only JF-17 and very few F-16 with some talks for future 5th Gen Bird!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!