COAS flies F-16, takes part in operation

[qsaark]

If thats the case why doesn't any one ask Mr 1000-% why he spent Rs 28,00000 a day and that was only on him , plus his quire boy from Oxford joined him ppp spent $2000000/- on him so called future PM of Pakistan. The total estimate MIN of Foreign Affairs has said in shut doors the whole trip has cost more than 12 million $$ and the bills are still coming in. How is that for a Joy Ride.

Murad Saheb, in my earlier post I mentioned very clearly the point you are raising.

....... Money wasted by the civilians (like our -----dent wasting money on foreign tours, or our PM and other cabinet members) or by the military, it is not good.

Bottom line is, waste of money is waste of money whether it is of Rs 50,000 or Rs 500,000. Besides the same money could have spent on the IDPs or on any other more productive use. The issue becomes more condemnable when such a waste of money comes from the COAS level, who will (if he ever) take over the government in the name of 'Good Governance'. All of his predecessors used the similar arguments while dismissing the democratically elected governments.

 

[tal]

if he want to survey the situation he could have used PN's P3 orion instead of F-16B i wonder was he looking for a dogfight with taliban?

 

[qsaark]

Why are you acting like this mate?

Kasrkin my friend, because calling spade a spade is what I learnt from my parents and from my honorable teachers.

You don't know anything about anything. You don't have to have a visible recon pod attached to 'prove' that you're flying for observation. If the chief wanted someone to go and draw up maps then he could have asked loads of people do it. The point is that he wanted to survey the situation himself and get a feel of it.

Thank God I don’t know anything about anything. Observing and surveying the situation while traveling at the speed of 500 knots? OK Karskin, it seems our COAS is really a super human as are rest of our military people.

Also he wanted to raise the moral of his soldiers and tell them that they're not forgotten. You would have no idea how hearting it would be for soldiers manning dangerous and isolated outposts on this long mission to see a F-16 roaring around overhead and knowing their chief’s on it appreciating them.

If I were a soldier on the front posts and my COAS was flying over my head, I would have thought that I am really forgotten. My COAS is flying high above where enemy fire can’t reach and here I am, sitting in a cold trench facing my enemy. That feeling will not bolster my morale I swear.

Rs 50,000 is nothing when it comes to running air forces. My mamo blows that much in training missions on a daily basis. Of course it’s not a waste of money, all the training, flight time and sorties pay off. Flying hours is usually the difference between skilled and not so skilled fighter pilots. Don’t be over smart please…

No arguing on money spent on training. I am arguing about the money spent on the joy ride of the COAS.

The militants will shoot at everything they see, they dont need a bloody 'COAS banner' to find the motivation. The result on the chief's safety will be the same.

They just have not shown this capacity as yet. None of our chopper is downed or even attacked. Dozens of sorties take place every day between Sawat and Peshawar without a problem.

We’re not a beggar country anymore than the US is. If it gives you satisfaction to belittle your country and country-men when no one is other countries acts like this then that’s your problem. But don’t ask everyone to share your twisted inferiority complex.

This is not my inferiority complex, this is the reality of the financial state of the country we call Pakistan. There is a difference of day and night between taking loans and be able to pay them back and begging for aid. And that indeed is the difference between US and Pakistan.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Bottom line is, waste of money is waste of money whether it is of Rs 50,000 or Rs 500,000. Besides the same money could have spent on the IDPs or on any other more productive use. The issue becomes more condemnable when such a waste of money comes from the COAS level, who will (if he ever) take over the government in the name of 'Good Governance'. All of his predecessors used the similar arguments while dismissing the democratically elected governments.

The chief justice now zardari's poodle dog buidling lego judiciary pillar under his master's umbrella enjoys luxury life like any other currpt politians. His resident palace is one of the most expensive in islamabad, he could live like a ordinary pakistani and save money for the poor. he can also refuse luxury motor fleet, i mean his office is not far from palace plus i highly dough he faces any threat from taliban as he himself is quite pro-taliban like imran khan.
let alone the hundred millions of dollars losess he has caused pakistan for his personal political gains.. strikes strikes after strikes..

 

[A1Kaid]

Kasrkin my friend, because calling spade a spade is what I learnt from my parents and from my honorable teachers.

Thank God I don’t know anything about anything. Observing and surveying the situation while traveling at the speed of 500 knots? OK Karskin, it seems our COAS is really a super human as are rest of our military people.

If I were a soldier on the front posts and my COAS was flying over my head, I would have thought that I am really forgotten. My COAS is flying high above where enemy fire can’t reach and here I am, sitting in a cold trench facing my enemy. That feeling will not bolster my morale I swear.

No arguing on money spent on training. I am arguing about the money spent on the joy ride of the COAS.

They just have not shown this capacity as yet. None of our chopper is downed or even attacked. Dozens of sorties take place every day between Sawat and Peshawar without a problem.

This is not my inferiority complex, this is the reality of the financial state of the country we call Pakistan. There is a difference of day and night between taking loans and be able to pay them back and begging for aid. And that indeed is the difference between US and Pakistan.

I must say I am impressed how you 'battle back' against others. Your counter-arguments are also reasonable. Your concerns are valid. We don't want to see money misspent especially in the financial condition we are now in.

Though I don't think it is this "50,000 Rs." that we should really worry about. We have bigger concerns and that is how the PPP is wasting a lot of money that is counter-productive. We ought to hold them accountable and make government spending transparent with statistics available to our public institutions.


I am not going to criticize Gen. Kayani's F-16 flight I don't really see it as a big concern, he is absolutely deserving of this flight.


Again your concerns are valid, but it would be wiser to take your concerns to a more suitable example like PPP, which we all can agree on are wasting money, and not the COAS who has been wonderful in his leadership.


I understand you said you call a "spade a spade" however, Dr. there are exceptions to be made when we are dealing with different circumstances.


If you truly believe you call a "spade a spade" than what if Pakistan was an extremely wealthy first class country, and the COAS decided to go on this supposedly "50,000 Rs." "joyride" or how other see it a symbolic gesture of unity with PAF/PA, would you be upset than? Would you attack with the same charge?

Or are you more upset about this because you see Pakistan as a "beggar nation". Though I do agree with what you say here (below).

"This is not my inferiority complex, this is the reality of the financial state of the country we call Pakistan. There is a difference of day and night between taking loans and be able to pay them back and begging for aid. And that indeed is the difference between US and Pakistan."

 

[qsaark]

The chief justice now zardari's poodle dog buidling lego judiciary pillar under his master's umbrella enjoys luxury life like any other currpt politians. His resident palace is one of the most expensive in islamabad, he could live like a ordinary pakistani and save money for the poor. he can also refuse luxury motor fleet, i mean his office is not far from palace plus i highly dough he faces any threat from taliban as he himself is quite pro-taliban like imran khan.
let alone the hundred millions of dollars losess he has caused pakistan for his personal political gains.. strikes strikes after strikes..

First of all, I would like to congratulate you for using a very decent language. This language perfectly matches with the name and the avatar you have selected.

Now lests come to the next part...the palace you are talking about belongs to the GoP not to him. The fleet of cars you are talking about also belongs to the GoP not to him. The security you are talking about is also from the GoP not his personal. So if you don’t find all these things OK, you must hold the GoP responsible for that not the CJP. Let me add though that his 'palace' is merely a servant quarter as compared to the Army House. This is my last post to you because kind of the language you use, I may not be able to communicate with you.

 

[tamir]

Even though I don't agree with Qsaark on some points, I do greatly admire the conviction he has in his opinion.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

First of all, I would like to congratulate you for using a very decent language. This language perfectly matches with the name and the avatar you have selected.

Now lests come to the next part...the palace you are talking about belongs to the GoP not to him. The fleet of cars you are talking about also belongs to the GoP not to him. The security you are talking about is also from the GoP not his personal. So if you don’t find all these things OK, you must hold the GoP responsible for that not the CJP. Let me add though that his 'palace' is merely a servant quarter as compared to the Army House. This is my last post to you because kind of the language you use, I may not be able to communicate with you.

No dough you are an ignorant person. CJ IC was reinstated to change things not sit on their lap and enjoy the ride MR-10% is giving to his poodels.. IF CJ IC was a sincere person who cared about pakistan he would have refused his luxury and save the money for IDPs instead he would rather perfer to serve his masters and make fools like you pretend he is doing a great job. and btw do some homework before you open your mouth again. Army house and CJ palace is almost the same. serveant quater would be really small but thats not the case with CJ..

 

[Kasrkin]

Observing and surveying the situation while traveling at the speed of 500 knots? OK Karskin, it seems our COAS is really a super human as are rest of our military people.

You're talking nonsense just for the sake of it. Are you saying that any pilot in a supersonic aircraft is incapable of observing anything on the ground? The F-16's buble canopy is designed for excellent and rounded visual coverage, all fighters pilots even in the uncomfortable F-7s are capable of observing (and bombing) the ground. Speed is not an issue either and its retarded to imply that a fighter aircraft is incapable of reducing its speed, which they almost always do when flying low.

So yes, you don't know anything about anything.

If I were a soldier on the front posts and my COAS was flying over my head, I would have thought that I am really forgotten.

Well obviously, and thankfuly, our armed forces are not made up of people like you. You probably live a comfortable life, but I can assure you that our soldiers dont think like "OMG the chief's flying in an F-16 to observe us and not coming down to hold our hands himself to everyone of the hundreds of posts, this must mean we're forgotten, bla bla". People who seek to criticize for its own sake don't really care about our soldiers anyway, much like the enemy won't care when seeking to demoralize them through propaganda aimed at their officers.

I am arguing about the money spent on the joy ride of the COAS.

Its only a 'joy ride' in your twisted, uneducated and bias perceptions.

None of our chopper is downed or even attacked.

BS. Loads of Cobras have come home with .50 cal rounds drilled into their armour and reportedly atleast 1 has been lost to enemy fire. Secondly the heavy lift transfort helicoptors don't usually visit or fly over active combat zones because of their vulnerability and a F-16 does not share that risk. Thirdly helicopters have fallen due to technical fault loads of times and their crew kidnapped and slaughtered with the militants claiming to have shot it down, but the end result is the same. So the chief would not have been able to see everything he wanted and his life would still be at a risk as compared to these new and reliable F-16 aircraft.

There is a difference of day and night between taking loans and be able to pay them back and begging for aid. And that indeed is the difference between US and Pakistan.

There is a difference, but the Americans also fought all their wars through heavily loans. As far as aid goes, there is hardly 1 country in the world that hasn't received aid from other countries in sometime and form. Your self-contemptuous attitude not unwarranted, nor is it constructive.

 

[Muradk]

if he want to survey the situation he could have used PN's P3 orion instead of F-16B i wonder was he looking for a dogfight with taliban?

Qsaark why don't I call the COAS who is my student and tell him to give you a 45 min Ride will that make you happy for God sake buddy the Sortie was planned any way they just added a extra man in it.


Tal why I don't agree with you 1971, 6 sabers in formation at 500ft and one of them exploded because a single bullet hit its fuel tank well I can't be sure it might be more than one but no AAG were there. Now AK-47 can bring down and fighter if the bullets enter its intake. So as COAS it is not our duty but our responsibility to protect him at any cost.

 

[SSGPA1]

An example of waste of precious resource. I don’t get why it was found necessary for him to sit in the back of the F-16 cockpit. If it was for boosting the morale, he could have fired a few rounds of a mortar.

Sad to see such a response from a highly educated person like yourself. You are eaton by your passion of supporting Nawaz Sharif.

Are you mad at Gen. Kiyani because he is close to Musharraf? Pls get over it!

A friend's dad was in PIA and he use to fly with VVIPs. On one such flight, PIA plan circled over Lahore for almost 20 minutes because PM NS was not done with his bloody lunch.

At least Gen Kiyani's intention was to boost the morale of our troops!

 

[qsaark]

You're talking nonsense; So yes, you don't know anything about anything; and thankfuly, our armed forces are not made up of people like you; People who seek to criticize for its own sake don't really care about our soldiers anyway, much like the enemy won't care when seeking to demoralize them through propaganda aimed at their officers; in your twisted, uneducated and bias perceptions; BS. Your self-contemptuous attitude not unwarranted, nor is it constructive.

I can reply to each and every point of yours but your style of conversation in the words of Mirza Ghalib is:

Har ek baat par kehtey ho tum key tu kya hey
TumheeN kaho key yeh andaz e guftugu kya hey

So thank you for letting me know about myself. You guys have scored enough thanks while dueling with me. Time to retire from this discussion. After discussing though, I thank myself again that I made a right decision to leave Pakistan, because things will never be changed in that country. A place where people don’t care about wasting money and invent reasons to justify for it will never grow and will never prosper. Whether it is military or civilians no one is honest to that country. That is what I tell to my Americans friends when they ask me what is wrong with that country. When somebody tries to identify this you guys call him traitor, sick, dishonest, uneducated, with twisted mindset. If the standard of honesty and loyalty and love for your country is what I have read in previous posts, than we really don’t need an enemy to destroy us, we ourselves are sufficient for that.

Sad to see such a response from a highly educated person like yourself. You are eaton by your passion of supporting Nawaz Sharif.

Are you mad at Gen. Kiyani because he is close to Musharraf? Pls get over it!

A friend's dad was in PIA and he use to fly with VVIPs. On one such flight, PIA plan circled over Lahore for almost 20 minutes because PM NS was not done with his bloody lunch.

At least Gen Kiyani's intention was to boost the morale of our troops!

And please SSGPA1, I dislike NS as much as I dislike Zardari and as much as I dislike any dishonest person. Don't bring this political affiliation thing in every discussion.

 

[Jihad]

I must say, instead of attacking Qsaark, we might aswell thank him because I for one, found his views extremely interesting.
He looked at the matter from a different point of view and brought it into subject in a civilised manner.
He clearly isn't being anti-Pakistani or whatsoever.
By the looks of it, he's more of a concerned Pakistani national, you don't have to agree with his views, but you have to give credit to the fact that he has another way of thinking than alot of other Pakistanis, and atleast for me, that's very interesting and educative.
He has a point when he talks about wasting money, this is a fact which cannot be ignored in Pakistan, however, in this case, would it be appropriate to talk about such thing? I guess that's what the discussion is about.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I must say, instead of attacking Qsaark, we might aswell thank him because I for one, found his views extremely interesting.
He looked at the matter from a different point of view and brought it into subject in a civilised manner.
He clearly isn't being anti-Pakistani or whatsoever.
By the looks of it, he's more of a concerned Pakistani national, you don't have to agree with his views, but you have to give credit to the fact that he has another way of thinking than alot of other Pakistanis, and atleast for me, that's very interesting and educative.
He has a point when he talks about wasting money, this is a fact which cannot be ignored in Pakistan, however, in this case, would it be appropriate to talk about such thing? I guess that's what the discussion is about.

no he is just biased and hippocrate.
i would have agreed with you if Qsaark also mentioned CJ IC luxuries in the same manner. and he talks alot of nonsense, i can give credit for that.

 

[Muradk]

no he is just biased and hippocrate.
i would have agreed with you if Qsaark also mentioned CJ IC luxuries in the same manner. and he talks alot of nonsense, i can give credit for that.

Cool down my friend, We all come from different backgrounds and our school of thought are different, Our opinions, our personalities will always clash when so many minds come to 1 place. So its ok