CNN: Why a military spat between Japan and South Korea could snowball into crisis

[TaiShang]

Is this guy a Japanese or a Japanese wannabe?

An imposter.

 

[zectech]

An imposter.

and imposter went quickly to my ignore list.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Why a military spat between Japan and South Korea could snowball into crisis
By Joshua Berlinger, CNN
Updated 12:52 AM ET, Sun January 27, 2019

A photograph released by the South Korean Defense Ministry appears to show a Japanese plane as seen on board one of its destroyers, the Dae Joyeong, on Wednesday.

(CNN)Japan and South Korea are engaged in a heated military dispute that analysts say could damage the already tenuous geopolitical situation in northeast Asia if the two sides do not reach a resolution.

The spat began December 20 after an encounter between a Japanese plane, which Tokyo said was collecting intelligence, and a South Korean destroyer, which Seoul said was on a humanitarian mission.

Both sides disagree on what happened next -- the Japanese said the South Koreans targeted their aircraft with missile-targeting radar, while the South Koreans said the Japanese plane was flying dangerously low and that the radar "was not intended to trace any Japanese-controlled aircraft."

The disagreement has quickly escalated, bringing to the fore historical disputes previously on the back-burner and -- in turn -- threatening the region's stability.


"East Asian geopolitics has been shaken loose and is now unsettled," said Van Jackson, a former US Department of Defense official specializing in the Asia-Pacific.

"China is seeking to push out the US, North Korea has pulled a jiujitsu move by using summit diplomacy to solidify its status as a nuclear state even as the ostensible purpose is to denuclearize Pyongyang, and the future of the US in the region is less certain now than any time since the 1970s.

"Amid all this tumult, suppressed animosities are started to crack through the veneer of regional stability."

A marriage of convenience
South Korea and Japan are historical adversaries locked in a marriage of convenience, which makes for a complex partnership. Their relationship is still very much colored by the legacy of imperial Japan's occupation and colonization of the Korean Peninsula in the first half of the 20th century.

This revived tension comes at a terrible time for the United States -- the Trump administration is currently preparing for its second summit with North Korea, while also inching towards a key deadline in trade talks with China.

Shortly after the initial incident, Japan and South Korea held working-level meetings to try to resolve the issue behind closed doors.

It appears to not have worked -- and neither side is buying the other's explanation.
Japan released video of the incident from its perspective on December 28. South Korea released its own video on January 4. Each accused the other of misleading the public and distorting the facts.

Japan has conducted three other flybys over South Korean ships this month -- one last week, one on Tuesday and another Wednesday. Seoul publicly condemned the latest as a "clearly provocative act" against a "partner country."

South Korea's Defense Ministry released this radar photo, which it says shows a Japanese patrol aircraft 7.5 kilometers (4.6 miles) away from the South Korean naval destroyer Dae Joyeong.

Lawmaker Song Young-gil, from South Korea's ruling Democratic Party, has even gone so far as to suggest Seoul pull out of its General Security of Military Information Agreement, a pact allowing the two countries to share sensitive intelligence.

Jonathan Berkshire Miller, an analyst at the Tokyo-based Japan Institute for International Affairs, believes historical enmity contributed to the sudden deterioration of relations.
"The context is key," he said.

Historical adversaries
Despite their historical differences, South Korea and Japan share plenty of surface similarities. They're both vibrant democracies with developed economies. Geopolitically, they are both US allies; they both want a denuclearized North Korea; they both support free trade; and they both view China's rise with trepidation.

But history looms large, and the Japanese occupation and colonization of Korea -- when many Koreans were brutalized, murdered and enslaved -- is still a highly emotional issue that defines their relationship.

South Korea and Japan signed a treaty in 1965 that normalized relations between the two countries and was supposed to settle most of the wartime issues.

But South Korea was a military dictatorship at the time, and many Koreans felt the deal was unfair -- and today are still fighting against it.

The two countries are still locked in heated debate over statues depicting "comfort women" -- Korean women forced into providing sexual services for Japanese soldiers -- and recent decisions by South Korea's Supreme Court allowing citizens to sue Japanese corporations for reparations for forced labor.

Japan contends both issues were settled by the treaty.

Even further, they have been in a heated dispute for more than 50 years over ownership of a group of islands called Dokdo in Korean and Takeshima in Japanese.

Despite all this, military-to-military relations between Japan and South Korea often appeared largely unaffected by the ebbs and flows of political disagreements, said Miller, the analyst at the Japan Institute for International Affairs.

"That was the one area that was kind of quarantined or immunized before," he said. "It wasn't always perfect ... but it was one that they both agreed was for the better good for the both of them."

Alliance maintenance
Japan and South Korea's foreign ministers met on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Wednesday to discuss the issue, but their meeting ended with statements that did not appear to resolve anything.

Not with them at Davos was their shared treaty ally, the Untied States, which typically would help mediate the dispute. President Donald Trump canceled his trip to Davos to deal with the US government shutdown.

Some have accused the White House of not placing enough importance on alliance coordination and management. Former Defense Secretary James Mattis pointed to that as a key disagreement between himself and the President in his resignation letter.

"Our strength as a nation is inextricably linked to the strength of our unique and comprehensive system of alliances and partnerships," Mattis wrote.

"While the US remains the indispensable nation in the free world, we cannot protect our interests or serve that role effectively without maintaining strong alliances and showing respect to those allies."

Analysts like Jackson, the former Defense Department official, worry that the current spat is a manifestation of declining US leadership, and will play into the hands of North Korea and China -- two countries that have historically sought to diminish US influence in the region by causing rifts between Washington and its allies.

"What we're seeing lately is a return to history in some sense -- the two countries never fully reconciled when they normalized relations in 1965, and put a lot of conflicts of interest on the back burner in the name of cooperation with the US," Jackson said.

"If something doesn't change, I expect some kind of serious crisis to break out at some point, unfortunately."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/26/asia/south-korea-japan-spat-intl/index.html

Japan is starting to act up again, I wonder how long before Germany starts to raise its military again

 

[Suika]

An imposter.

Still saying that? Still not going to respond in this thread?
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/japa...r-living-in-china.595061/page-3#post-11087062

Chill bhai, don't have to get so defensive. I just asked a very simple question, can you ask US soldiers to leave? . Can you prosecute those US military rapist and killers? . You are not free my friend, you have the facade of democracy, but your country is not free.


Whats there to report, the moderator already says you are not Japanese. So if you are not Japanese and you try to represent Japan, doesn't it make you a wannabe?=)


Truthfully Koreans don't like Chinese, but they HATE JAPANESE. That's one thing which unites us both, our hatred for you. There are around 2.5 million ethnic Koreans who are Chinese citizens, we treat them as equals and as our brothers. They fight under our flag on the borders. Some are so Chinese, they can't even speak Korean.

Don't get all defensive? Why not? Afterall people are calling me an imposter and such even. Should I bend and take it

As for Japan free or not, I made my arguments already, and those arguments have not been effectively refuted, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

I'm not pretending to be anything. Keep asking TaiShang, he might give an honest answer eventually. A chance to see honesty out of him might be worth the wait

I don't deny there are many ethnically Koreans that are virtually Chinese. Along the border with the DPRK, there are many ethnic Korean communities. Undoubtedly they hate Japan very much.

Might be interesting to know that during the colonial period, some Koreans fought against those commie Koreans on behalf of imperial Japan on grounds of anti-communism. South Korea's first top general in the post-WW2 era was one who actively fought against Korean communists during the colonial Korea period.

It is a tragedy that Koreans fight Koreans. But the greater tragedy is that communism infiltrated the minds of many Koreans.

 

[Han Patriot]

Still saying that? Still not going to respond in this thread?
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/japa...r-living-in-china.595061/page-3#post-11087062



Don't get all defensive? Why not? Afterall people are calling me an imposter and such even. Should I bend and take it

As for Japan free or not, I made my arguments already, and those arguments have not been effectively refuted, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

I'm not pretending to be anything. Keep asking TaiShang, he might give an honest answer eventually. A chance to see honesty out of him might be worth the wait

I don't deny there are many ethnically Koreans that are virtually Chinese. Along the border with the DPRK, there are many ethnic Korean communities. Undoubtedly they hate Japan very much.

Might be interesting to know that during the colonial period, some Koreans fought against those commie Koreans on behalf of imperial Japan on grounds of anti-communism. South Korea's first top general in the post-WW2 era was one who actively fought against Korean communists during the colonial Korea period.

It is a tragedy that Koreans fight Koreans. But the greater tragedy is that communism infiltrated the minds of many Koreans.

Communism didn't make us hate Japanese, WWII did genius. Hey I don't care whether you are an impostor or soemthing else. I just don't care. i asked a simple question and until now you did not answer me. Can you ask US Military to leave now? Can you prosecute those rapist and killers. You know the answer.

 

[Suika]

Communism didn't make us hate Japanese, WWII did genius. Hey I don't care whether you are an impostor or soemthing else. I just don't care. i asked a simple question and until now you did not answer me. Can you ask US Military to leave now? Can you prosecute those rapist and killers. You know the answer.

The answer is not simple when the answer is already known and is being trolled.

Of course I was talking about Korea, not China.

 

[Han Patriot]

The answer is not simple when the answer is already known and is being trolled.

Of course I was talking about Korea, not China.

The answer is simple, it's whether you wanna be act like an Indian and live in denial or accept the fact that you are no different from a US colony with some degree of autonomy.

I was talking about Korea and China. It's not ideological, it's historical. Korea will join China in subjugating Japan. Japan is a threat to Korea not China, we have no intention to conquer Korea, borders are properly demarcated.

 

[Suika]

The answer is simple, it's whether you wanna be act like an Indian and live in denial or accept the fact that you are no different from a US colony with some degree of autonomy.

I was talking about Korea and China. It's not ideological, it's historical. Korea will join China in subjugating Japan. Japan is a threat to Korea not China, we have no intention to conquer Korea, borders are properly demarcated.

The answer is not up to me. Its up to TaiShang.

Not historical, its an interpretation of history brainless emotions. A true, objective account of history, would show the same pattern of the general mankind behavior rather than some sort of uniquely bad action by Japan. These days, that history is a convinient political tool for just gathering political favoritism. That failure to take an objective view of the history is another reason why China will not gain Japan's trust, thus another reason why US forces will be welcomed. US media is bad, but free press does enable objective history to be learned by a determined person that wants to learn. In CCP China, there's too much information control. Part of the reason why Chinese arguments regarding geopolitics have been really bad I suspect and only hope to win by trolling.

 

[CHN Bamboo]

For a time, the United States brought security and prosperity to Japan, as well as a vast market for the whole world, which helped them quickly get out of the ruins of the war.
With the passage of time, the United States has gradually changed from an umbrella to terrible cancer, penetrating deeply into the bone marrow and internal organs of Japan, interfering with every move of Japan.
Although the United States can't make their favorite leaders become Japanese prime ministers directly, it can make any leader they don't like step down immediately.
Almost none of Japan's pro-China presidents has been in office for a long time.

Unlike South Korea, though the political situation in South Korea is also influenced by the United States, local Christian groups in Korea has a greater impact on their political decision making, which are anti-Japan since before WW2.
The United States wants Japan and South Korea to improve relations, after all, both countries have U.S. military bases, they are weapons used by U.S. to control Asia. Unfortunately, Christians in S.Korea won't allow this to happen.

S.Korean people are anti-Japanese principlism, while Chinese people are anti-Japanese opportunism.
Throughout history, Korea has been invaded by Japan for many many times, the history of Korean hatred of Japan began before WWII.

 

[sinait]

Communism didn't make us hate Japanese, WWII did genius. Hey I don't care whether you are an impostor or soemthing else. I just don't care. i asked a simple question and until now you did not answer me. Can you ask US Military to leave now? Can you prosecute those rapist and killers. You know the answer.

He need more time to come up with an OBFUSCATED answer.
.

 

[Suika]

For a time, the United States brought security and prosperity to Japan, as well as a vast market for the whole world, which helped them quickly get out of the ruins of the war.
With the passage of time, the United States has gradually changed from an umbrella to terrible cancer, penetrating deeply into the bone marrow and internal organs of Japan, interfering with every move of Japan.
Although the United States can't make their favorite leaders become Japanese prime ministers directly, it can make any leader they don't like step down immediately.
Almost none of Japan's pro-China presidents has been in office for a long time.

Unlike South Korea, though the political situation in South Korea is also influenced by the United States, local Christian groups in Korea has a greater impact on their political decision making, which are anti-Japan since before WW2.
The United States wants Japan and South Korea to improve relations, after all, both countries have U.S. military bases, they are weapons used by U.S. to control Asia. Unfortunately, Christians in S.Korea won't allow this to happen.

S.Korean people are anti-Japanese principlism, while Chinese people are anti-Japanese opportunism.
Throughout history, Korea has been invaded by Japan for many many times, the history of Korean hatred of Japan began before WWII.

To the part made bold and underlined.. as I stated before

Why should Japan itself be OK with China taking Taiwan? Why should Japan be OK with Chinese Coast Guard ships intruding Senkaku waters? Why should Japan be OK with the 9 dash line? Or ensuring the survival of the DPRK and have helped it develope its nuclear and missile program? Why should Japan be OK with the country (PRC) doing all these things while having a GDP 3 times large?

Why should Japanese population vote for Pro-China politicians that run counter to the above points. Also, anyone voting in favor of a country that does not allow elections is pretty much an oxymoron. It just doesn't work logically. Same as why would Taiwanese participate in a system that grants the right to vote and vote for a country that would do away with that right to participate in elections. Its like an oxymoron.

He need more time to come up with an OBFUSCATED answer.
.

That could very much be the reason. I could be trying to communicate with children that can't handle more than a paragraph

 

[CHN Bamboo]

To the part made bold and underlined.. as I stated before

Why should Japan itself be OK with China taking Taiwan? Why should Japan be OK with Chinese Coast Guard ships intruding Senkaku waters? Why should Japan be OK with the 9 dash line? Or ensuring the survival of the DPRK and have helped it develope its nuclear and missile program? Why should Japan be OK with the country (PRC) doing all these things while having a GDP 3 times large?

Why should Japanese population vote for Pro-China politicians that run counter to the above points. Also, anyone voting in favor of a country that does not allow elections is pretty much an oxymoron. It just doesn't work logically. Same as why would Taiwanese participate in a system that grants the right to vote and vote for a country that would do away with that right to participate in elections. Its like an oxymoron.



That could very much be the reason. I could be trying to communicate with children that can't handle more than a paragraph

Pro Chinese President Yukio Hatoyama and ichiro ozawa were prosecuted by Special Search Department of Tokyo Local Procuratorate and step down during their term of office.
Taro Hashimoto requested President Clinton of the United States to return Futenma Base in Okinawa and he told U.S. if they don't return the base Japan will sell U.S. debt. Then he was investigated by Special Search Department of Tokyo Local Procuratorate and step down, retreat from Japanese politics.

Japanese Finance Minister 'commit suicide' suddenly, incoming Japanese Ambassador to China died in the hospital suddenly, they both support China Japan ROK FTA and they are also important negotiators. After their death, FTA had to stop. No one would believe that there was no American intervention.

 

[Han Patriot]

The answer is not up to me. Its up to TaiShang.

Not historical, its an interpretation of history brainless emotions. A true, objective account of history, would show the same pattern of the general mankind behavior rather than some sort of uniquely bad action by Japan. These days, that history is a convinient political tool for just gathering political favoritism. That failure to take an objective view of the history is another reason why China will not gain Japan's trust, thus another reason why US forces will be welcomed. US media is bad, but free press does enable objective history to be learned by a determined person that wants to learn. In CCP China, there's too much information control. Part of the reason why Chinese arguments regarding geopolitics have been really bad I suspect and only hope to win by trolling.

Answer up to Taishang, dude, since when a real Japanese will talk in twisted tongues, are you Indian btw? It's either yes or no. No I cannot make the US military go away because we are bound by a treaty after we lost a war. SIMPLE. I am not here to argue what you did was wrong or right, personally, I am looking towards the future, but Japanese astrocities is a rallying point for Chinese to improve and be better lest we get attacked by the Wokou again. You can try attacking China now and see if we blast Japan back into the stone age, no more WWII type massacres bro.

 

[Suika]

Pro Chinese President Yukio Hatoyama and ichiro ozawa were prosecuted by Special Search Department of Tokyo Local Procuratorate and step down during their term of office.
Taro Hashimoto requested President Clinton of the United States to return Futenma Base in Okinawa and he told U.S. if they don't return the base Japan will sell U.S. debt. Then he was investigated by Special Search Department of Tokyo Local Procuratorate and step down, retreat from Japanese politics.

Japanese Finance Minister 'commit suicide' suddenly, incoming Japanese Ambassador to China died in the hospital suddenly, they both support China Japan ROK FTA and they are also important negotiators. After their death, FTA had to stop. No one would believe that there was no American intervention.

Interesting post..

Yukio Hatoyama was a big time apologists to things like comfort women, way too far left he was.

Ichiro Ozawa was a big time politician that seemed to have gotten his fingers into everything and playing a major role in domestic political party affairs. No doubt he's picked up a lot of dirty money and secrets along the way. Calling him Pro-China is a big stretch. His objective was clearly being in the position of power among political circles, nothing specifically about him suggest he was Pro-china.

Ryutaro Hashimoto did work related to the US-Japan alliance and Futenma. Don't know if he was Pro-China though.. in 1995 he was Chairman for the "Japan War-Bereaved Families Association", a group that encourage visits to Yasukuni Shrine.

Minster suicide? I guess that is supposed to be Toshikatsu Matsuoka.. who committed suicide in 2007. Really had to find any China related activities with him. He was part of the 2007 Abe administration and his death brought down the Abe administration LDP, giving the opposition party the opportunity to take control away from LDP. How exactly that was in US interest in blocking China related developments, who knows... starting to smell trollish..

So then is the Japanese ambassador, who died unexpectedly in 2012, 5 years after the suicide of the other politician. Both are"suddenly" yet 5 years away. He died in September 2012, the very middle of the Senkaku nationalization moment. There was no making nice with China at this time.

As for FTA, if there was any country that would resists and FTA among those three countries the most, it would be ROK. Just like right now ROK has great reservations about joining CPTPP. Its the same concern. ROK doesn't want to open their domestic markets such as cars and music industry to Japanese competition.