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Christmas: PIA just had a very merry flight!

Funny that the most most fundamentalist brain dead comments comes from those who have fled Pakistan and living in most liberal Christian countries.. Is there no shame in them ? :lol:

@Kaptaan @waz

I am not assuming your comment was directed at me, but the issue you raised is actually through a prism our culture or rather a school of thought in our culture has come up with a test as to what we should say and not say; Sufism Three Gates of Speech.

Before saying something you need to ask firstly, is it true? if true, then ask, is it kind? and if kind and true, is it necessary? While we too are happy to remember the birth of Prophet Esa radhiallahu anhu, and are happy at our neighbors and people we interact with commemorating his birth. We all believe in His virgin birth, but core issue, is saying Merry Christmas tantamount to accepting part of Christianity, which would open the door to more christian and actually secular beliefs. My Jewish neighbors don't do Christmas, but the liberal ones do the tree and gifts and Santa, and their kids get more and more secular generation after generation.

It is not about behavior being different in majority Muslim countries or majority non-Muslim countries, as our christian neighbors are free to worship as they deem fit, but for our culture to reconcile how we interact with our people's belief in a respectful and thoughtful way. Because the way other cultures celebrate their holidays will be visible to our people, and we need to not hide our heads and ignore it, because inaction is ceding the public culture to those that speak up, extreme traditional and extreme liberal/western thinking. the next holiday after this will be "Saint Valentines Day" aka commemorating a day to secret romance (a priest would marry people in secret, but now a days people just use it as a day to hookup) which is against our culture explicitly. Christmas is a much more clear case to learn to deal with and reconcile, by the time St. Valentine's day comes along, we have a framework to say giving greeting to our fellow countrymen on Christmas in such a way is our culture's way, and banning St. Valentine's is our culture's way with dealing with that. For example, if the Prime Minister does an Eid Greeting via TV and radio bi-annually, then it would be fine if he sent out a Holiday Greeting to our Christian citizens, per Quaid e Azam's wish for a nation where all can practice their faith peacefully. Equally a Christian government official could send out a Holiday greeting during our Eid celebrations, and say Merry Christmas, if he chose to. But our culture needs to decide this and not just fall on traditionalism for its own sake, but proactively confront issues before other do it on their own.

To be Explicitly Clear, Christians our citizens and they are part of our Culture. Hindus our citizens and they are also a part of our culture. The Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Salam lived with People of the book; Jews and Polytheists. We Should Learn from His Example.

(not trying to be a Debbie Downer, just wanted to serious address the issue)
 
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My understanding is that you can say 'Merry Christmas' with the intention of sharing well wishes for their moment of happiness and with the understanding that we don't know whether Hazrat Eesa Alaihissalam or Jesus Christ was actually born on this day. I tried digging into some Christian friends about what they really believe. There seems to be a lot of discrepancies amongst various Christian denominations. Some say outright that its origins are from a pagan Winter Solstice celebration and devised to guide people towards Christianity. Others say it is a 'symbolization' of the birth of Christ. Some Christians are ok if I say Merry Christmas. Others have actually reacted strongly, telling me I am not Christian and have nothing to do with Christmas. From experience, no one seems to take offence if I don't say Merry Christmas (instead saying Happy New Year or Happy Holidays), but some people DO take offence if I say 'Merry Christmas'. But all of this discussion applies if you are living in a Christian majority country.

The official airlines of Islamic Republic of Pakistan has no business celebrating this for all and sundry, Muslim and Christian alike. I mean, do they say 'Happy Eid' during Eid holidays to every customer?



Their religious holidays are not our culture. In this case, PIA is actually celebrating it, rather than merely wishing Happy Christmas to a Christian person.

I love hypocrites like you, you enjoy the lifestyles offered by secular nations, but protest greatly if same is enjoyed by the country you left behind. Explain how it's OK to celebrate the birth of one prophet, but against your culture to celebrate the others?

Mawlid al-Nabi al-Sharif is the observance of the birthday of the prophet Muhammad, which is commemorated in Rabi' al-awwal.

Prophet Isa (as) - commonly known as Jesus - Christmas is the celebration of his birthday.
 
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Cmon bigots 'nafrat na pehlao'
The same kind blew up outside a church few days ago


They wish to take out racism they face on folks below them on the social or economic ladder
A very shitty but common thing


So what do you call culture of almost 5 million Pakistani Christians?Are they not worthy of even goodwill gestures?

Funny that the most most fundamentalist brain dead comments comes from those who have fled Pakistan and living in most liberal Christian countries.. Is there no shame in them ? :lol:

@Kaptaan @waz

1. Those living in Christian countries DO NOT celebrate Christmas, and NO ONE expects them to celebrate Christmas either. They do say 'Merry Christmas' or 'Happy Holidays' to their Christian friends, but that's about it. If they actually started celebrating Christmas, then per the saying of Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him 'Anyone who follows the ways of another nation will raise on the Day of Judgement amongst them'. That is a fate no Muslim would want.

2. It is no hate mongering to distinguish oneself from the religious practices of others. It is expected and the norm.

3. The culture of 5 million does not become the culture of remaining 195 million.

To summarize, we can wish our Christian friends 'Merry Christmas', but we don't celebrate Christmas ourself. In this case, PIA is celebrating it, which is disgusting and against the practices of Islam.

I love hypocrites like you, you enjoy the lifestyles offered by secular nations, but protest greatly if same is enjoyed by the country you left behind. Explain how it's OK to celebrate the birth of one prophet, but against your culture to celebrate the others?

Mawlid al-Nabi al-Sharif is the observance of the birthday of the prophet Muhammad, which is commemorated in Rabi' al-awwal.

Prophet Isa (as) - commonly known as Jesus - Christmas is the celebration of his birthday.

Actually, no one really knows the true birth date of either Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Aalihi wasallam, or Eesa 'Alaihis Salam, i.e., Jesus Christ. Secondly, there is no concept of 'celebrating a birthday' in Islam. And, in the original teachings of Jesus Christ, there was no concept of 'Santa Claus' and 'Christmas Tree', and reindeers and what not. None of this is the original teachings. Christmas today is a symbolic religious occasion for Christians. Being a religious occasion, Muslims have nothing to do with it because the Holy Quran is very clear 'For you is your religion, and for us is our religion'. Any attempt to mix the ways of other religions into Islam is abhorrent and contrary to the original teachings. Just this point is enough to not celebrate it.

Secondly, when we enjoy the lifestyle of secular nations, we still don't become exactly like them. I am not a Christian, I don't celebrate Christmas, and this doesn't change anything. So what's your point?
 
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Actually, no one really knows the true birth date of either Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Aalihi wasallam, or Eesa 'Alaihis Salam, i.e., Jesus Christ

When exposed, Typical thing hypocrites do is to change directions and start to create confusion, Get back to whats being asked and answer the question

I am not asking for you to give exact date of either prophets birth dates, I am asking you to explain the difference, why its OK to celebrate one prophets birthday and not the other?


Muslims have nothing to do with it because the Holy Quran is very clear 'For you is your religion, and for us is our religion'. Any attempt to mix the ways of other religions into Islam is abhorrent and contrary to the original teachings. Just this point is enough to not celebrate it.

I would appreciate it, When quoting The Noble Qur'an, you give the name of the Surat. please give me the name of Surat.
 
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When exposed, Typical thing hypocrites do is to change directions and start to create confusion, Get back to whats being asked and answer the question

I am not asking for you to give exact date of either prophets birth dates, I am asking you to explain the difference, why its OK to celebrate one prophets birthday and not the other?




I would appreciate it, When quoting The Noble Qur'an, you give the name of the Surat. please give me the name of Surat.

Look mister, you are talking on the internet with someone you are not acquainted with. I don't know what language you use in your house, but I don't appreciate 'hypocrite' when you are addressing me. Now go back and keep re-reading my post until your comprehension problem gets resolved.

109:6
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#aya=109_1&m=hafs&qaree=husary&trans=en_sh
For you is your religion, and for me is my religion.
 
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1. Those living in Christian countries DO NOT celebrate Christmas, and NO ONE expects them to celebrate Christmas either. They do say 'Merry Christmas' or 'Happy Holidays' to their Christian friends, but that's about it. If they actually started celebrating Christmas, then per the saying of Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him 'Anyone who follows the ways of another nation will raise on the Day of Judgement amongst them'. That is a fate no Muslim would want.

2. It is no hate mongering to distinguish oneself from the religious practices of others. It is expected and the norm.

3. The culture of 5 million does not become the culture of remaining 195 million.

To summarize, we can wish our Christian friends 'Merry Christmas', but we don't celebrate Christmas ourself. In this case, PIA is celebrating it, which is disgusting and against the practices of Islam.



Actually, no one really knows the true birth date of either Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Aalihi wasallam, or Eesa 'Alaihis Salam, i.e., Jesus Christ. Secondly, there is no concept of 'celebrating a birthday' in Islam. And, in the original teachings of Jesus Christ, there was no concept of 'Santa Claus' and 'Christmas Tree', and reindeers and what not. None of this is the original teachings. Christmas today is a symbolic religious occasion for Christians. Being a religious occasion, Muslims have nothing to do with it because the Holy Quran is very clear 'For you is your religion, and for us is our religion'. Any attempt to mix the ways of other religions into Islam is abhorrent and contrary to the original teachings. Just this point is enough to not celebrate it.

Secondly, when we enjoy the lifestyle of secular nations, we still don't become exactly like them. I am not a Christian, I don't celebrate Christmas, and this doesn't change anything. So what's your point?
Well the purpose of Christmas is to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ it also signifies a time of joy & love.
It's your choice whether or not you celebrate it.you don't have to get too complicated about it.
Also Santa Claus actually represents saint Nicolas who used to give gifts to 'good' children during Christmas time.

Are you sure that Christmas is not celebrated in Western countries ? Because in US & Europe it's a pretty big deal.
Night mass is held in all the parishes too.
 
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The conflict between the modern and orthodox Pakistanis is very clear here.
The difference are so amplified that people are some times willing to kill for it.
Anyways nice gesture by PIA.

The culture of 5 million does not become the culture of remaining 195 million.
You are disowning and marginalising the minorities in Pakistan, shame on you.
Are They second class citizens?
 
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The conflict between the modern and orthodox Pakistanis is very clear here.
The difference are so amplified that people are some times willing to kill for it.
Anyways nice gesture by PIA.


You are disowning and marginalising the minorities in Pakistan, shame on you.
Are They second class citizens?

Show me how I am 'disowning and marginalising the minorities in Pakistan' and how I am treatingbtgrm as 'second class citizens'?

The shameless accusatory tactics of liberal mafia are evident here. You guys don't think twice about deigning to absolute fibs in order to forward your devious agenda.

Well the purpose of Christmas is to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ it also signifies a time of joy & love.
It's your choice whether or not you celebrate it.you don't have to get too complicated about it.
Also Santa Claus actually represents saint Nicolas who used to give gifts to 'good' children during Christmas time.

Are you sure that Christmas is not celebrated in Western countries ? Because in US & Europe it's a pretty big deal.
Night mass is held in all the parishes too.

I am saying that Muslims are not expected to celebrate Christmas, hence no hypocricy in calling out PIA for doing so.
 
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True leader of Pakistanis Imran Khan wished Pakistani citizens of Christian faith a Happy Christmas :D
Show me how I am 'disowning and marginalising the minorities in Pakistan' and how I am treatingbtgrm as 'second class citizens'?

The shameless accusatory tactics of liberal mafia are evident here. You guys don't think twice about deigning to absolute fibs in order to forward your devious agenda.



I am saying that Muslims are not expected to celebrate Christmas, hence no hypocricy in calling out PIA for doing so.
Their amaal their akhirat why give a shit why do you have issues of pia decided to send a goodwill gesture to Christians so they feel part of this country this Christmas instead of unwanted aliens after the horrific Church bombing?

Pakistan is becoming hella weird. Like another white worshipping version of India.
Ok so a goodwill gesture days after an attack is somehow white worshipping?

1. Those living in Christian countries DO NOT celebrate Christmas, and NO ONE expects them to celebrate Christmas either. They do say 'Merry Christmas' or 'Happy Holidays' to their Christian friends, but that's about it. If they actually started celebrating Christmas, then per the saying of Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him 'Anyone who follows the ways of another nation will raise on the Day of Judgement amongst them'. That is a fate no Muslim would want.

2. It is no hate mongering to distinguish oneself from the religious practices of others. It is expected and the norm.

3. The culture of 5 million does not become the culture of remaining 195 million.

To summarize, we can wish our Christian friends 'Merry Christmas', but we don't celebrate Christmas ourself. In this case, PIA is celebrating it, which is disgusting and against the practices of Islam.



Actually, no one really knows the true birth date of either Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Aalihi wasallam, or Eesa 'Alaihis Salam, i.e., Jesus Christ. Secondly, there is no concept of 'celebrating a birthday' in Islam. And, in the original teachings of Jesus Christ, there was no concept of 'Santa Claus' and 'Christmas Tree', and reindeers and what not. None of this is the original teachings. Christmas today is a symbolic religious occasion for Christians. Being a religious occasion, Muslims have nothing to do with it because the Holy Quran is very clear 'For you is your religion, and for us is our religion'. Any attempt to mix the ways of other religions into Islam is abhorrent and contrary to the original teachings. Just this point is enough to not celebrate it.

Secondly, when we enjoy the lifestyle of secular nations, we still don't become exactly like them. I am not a Christian, I don't celebrate Christmas, and this doesn't change anything. So what's your point?
The culture of 5 million is the sub-culture of this great nation if you wish to disown it be my guest but dont stop others who wish for us to share each others joys and sorrows

Christians wish us Eid i see nothing wrong in Muslims wishing them Christmas?

Some triggered paid and unpaid bitches replying but a positive side is that most are replying in a positive manner

The conflict between the modern and orthodox Pakistanis is very clear here.
The difference are so amplified that people are some times willing to kill for it.
Anyways nice gesture by PIA.


You are disowning and marginalising the minorities in Pakistan, shame on you.
Are They second class citizens?
The debate is on what works better exclusive nationalism or inclusive nationalism?
 
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True leader of Pakistanis Imran Khan wished Pakistani citizens of Christian faith a Happy Christmas :D

Their amaal their akhirat why give a shit why do you have issues of pia decided to send a goodwill gesture to Christians so they feel part of this country this Christmas instead of unwanted aliens after the horrific Church bombing?


Ok so a goodwill gesture days after an attack is somehow white worshipping?


The culture of 5 million is the sub-culture of this great nation if you wish to disown it be my guest but dont stop others who wish for us to share each others joys and sorrows

Christians wish us Eid i see nothing wrong in Muslims wishing them Christmas?

Some triggered paid and unpaid bitches replying but a positive side is that most are replying in a positive manner


The debate is on what works better exclusive nationalism or inclusive nationalism?

Hey, I know Christians in Pakistan celebrate Christmas, but to me it's like a weird and foreign holiday with strange customs.
 
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