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Christian death toll spiking in India. Arson, massacre, state involvement,2002 again?

Exactly. So you can do swat about why some in India have a problem with the forcible conversions.

We are just having a debate here. You want to pick and choose what should be discussed. Good showing!
Yes, its called discussing ONE topic.

So you're saying when Indians have problems about what one believes in, they kill them? You SHOULD do squat about it.

It's not your right, and its not FORCIBLE. Did anyone put a gun to their heads? They didn't like Hinduism, they moved on!
 
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Well, why not go before that, and start with Raja Dahirs abduction of muslim females from sri lanka.

We are talking about contemporary issues, not past history. Why can't you admit that the gujrat killings were the work of Hindu extremists, and has caused communal disharmony. Why can't you condemn the terrorists in your community?

We condemn the terrorists in our midst till we are blue in the face, yet Indian's always refrain from self criticism. Remember, it is only a great nation which has the courage to criticise itself.

I would dearly lke to discuss the history and justification of Islamic invasions in India. But for now, let's park it for some more appropriate thread to avoid derailing this one.

I unreservedly condemn the Gujarat riots and their perpetrators as well as the perpetrators of the Godhra incident. We all do that.
 
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In the mighty secular democracy called India, with state institutions heavily infiltrated by the RSS and VHP, do you seriously want us to believe that Hindus can be forcibly converted to Christianity?

What a ludicrous and preposterous suggestion.

The only thing forcible were the reconversions of christians to hinduism carried out by the late swami laxmananda.

Of course your bile, anger and violence will not be directed on those Hindu maoists who acually killed him. INstead, the defenceless christian population will be hounded and killed.

By forcible, I didn't mean physical force here. It is various inducements and treacherous means that are employed to gain such conversions.

I am sure you would have heard of the foul means employed to gain such conversions.
 
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Yes, its called discussing ONE topic.

So you're saying when Indians have problems about what one believes in, they kill them? You SHOULD do squat about it.

It's not your right, and its not FORCIBLE. Did anyone put a gun to their heads? They didn't like Hinduism, they moved on!

That is what you would like to believe.

I don't think there was ever an unforced conversion in history. The forcibly converted are victims that create further victims by forcing others to convert.

Why do you think there are no Hindus/Buddhists left in Afghanistan/Pakistan, no Parsis in Iran?

All converted or left their countries voluntarily?
 
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Basic principle of conversion is my religion is better than yours, or your religion is inferior to mine. Thats where all problems start......one example below...remember those protesting were tribal, they don't even consider themselves Hindus.



RANCHI, India (UCAN) -- A group of tribal people have burned effigies of Cardinal Telesphore Toppo of Ranchi in eastern India, holding him responsible for a Protestant Bible they say insults their indigenous tribal religion.

ia_ranchi_jharkhand_state.gifProtesters on Sept. 22 shouted slogans against the prelate, the first Asian tribal cardinal. They blamed him for publication of the "anti-tribal Bible" and burned effigies of the Catholic leader in front of the Bishop's House in Ranchi, capital of Jharkhand state, 1,160 kilometers southeast of New Delhi.

They also threatened to burn copies of Nemha (holy) Bible. The Bible Society of India, a Protestant organization, published the Bible translation into the Oraon tribe's Kurukh dialect in 2000.

Manoj Lakra, a journalist, explained to UCA News that the protesters hold Cardinal Toppo, an Oraon himself, responsible for the Protestant translation because they do not understand denominational differences and consider the cardinal head of all tribal Christians in the state. The Catholic Church is by far the largest Christian group in the region, popular for its education and health services.

On Sept. 21, the protesting members of Kendriya Sarna Samiti (KSS, central Sarna committee), told members of the press in Ranchi they objected to the translation's rendering of "tree" as "sarna" in the Book of Deuteronomy. The passage they cited reads: "You must completely destroy all the places where the nations you dispossess have served their gods, on high mountains, on hills, under any spreading tree; you must tear down their altars, smash their sacred stones, burn their sacred poles, hack to bits the statues of their gods and obliterate their name from that place."

Sarna denotes the tribal worship place normally set under a tree. The word is also used to describe the community of non-Christian tribal people who follow the Sarna worship system.

KSS president Ajay Tirkey told reporters the translation was "derogatory" because "sarna is our holy place" and is an "unbearable offense for the entire tribal community." The KSS is considered to have the backing of pro-Hindu groups in the area.

Tirkey charged the translation was a "wrongful" attempt by Christian missioners "to put our religion in a bad light" in order to "facilitate conversions."

The group did not explain why they waited eight years since the translation was published to air their objections.

Cardinal Toppo told UCA News on Sept. 21 that the translated word "was wrong," but also that the Catholic Church does not belong to the Bible Society. The society's officials in the state, he added, have acknowledged the mistake and announced they will withdraw the bible. "Therefore this should not be made an issue," he added.

Soma Bhatkar, Bible Society secretary in Ranchi, told UCA News on Sept. 21 that they have "tendered unconditional apologies" to the tribal community and recalled copies from bookstores. She admitted the "mistake" but also said her society only helped print the Bible edition, not translate it.

Father C.R. Prabhu, vice president of the ecumenical All Churches' Committee, said at a press conference on Sept. 23 in Ranchi, "We have withdrawn the copies from the market." The Churches "will not repeat such mistakes" during translations, the Catholic priest assured.

Meanwhile, police arrested 11 people when a group tried to burn copies of the Bible 10 kilometers east of Ranchi. Police spokesperson S.N. Pradhan told UCA News that police chiefs in all districts in the state "have been put on alert" to thwart any untoward incident.

"The matter is being resolved by the Church amicably," he said. "We were informed that the Church is holding talks with the tribal community to resolve the issue, and unless there is a specific complaint, we are not going to intervene."

END
 
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India: Hindu communalists target Christian minority in Orissa and other states

By Arun Kumar and Kranti Kumara

WSWS - 7 October 2008

For the past six weeks, Hindu supremacists associated with the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP—the World Hindu Council) and its youth wing, the Bajrang Dal (BD), have been mounting violent attacks on impoverished Christians in the East Indian state of Orissa.

Yet neither the state government, nor the Congress Party-led United Progressive Alliance (UPA) national government has taken any decisive action to put an end to this pogrom.

Some 50 Christians have been killed and 5,000 dwellings razed by roving mobs of VHP and BJ members armed with tridents, iron rods, bows, homemade bombs, and kerosene. The dead include a priest and a nun who were burned alive.

The violence has been centered in the central highland district of Kandamahal, or Phoolbani, which is home to socioeconomically-deprived tribal peoples, many of whom have converted to Christianity.

More than 13,000 displaced persons have found temporary haven in internal refugee camps, but as many as 50,000 others are thought to be hiding n the region’s forests and hills. The VHP-BD thugs are demanding that anyone wishing to return first convert to Hinduism

The Indian government last week rushed additional paramilitary forces to the state at the request of Orissa Chief Minister Naveen Patnaik, whose Biju Janata Dal (BJD) rules the state in a coalition with the Hindu communalist Bharatiya Janata Party or BJP. Patnaik appears to be utilizing the tactic of asking for additional paramilitary forces as a substitute for ordering the suppression of the communal attacks and exposing the complicity of local police officers, who are reported to have allowed many of the attacks to proceed unimpeded.

The BJP has a decade’s long association with the Hindu supremacist right and played the principal role in fomenting the two worst instances of anti-Muslim violence in post-partition India—the 1992 razing of the Babri Masjid mosque in Ayodhya and the 2002 anti-Muslim pogrom in Gujarat. The BJP and VHP also share a common parent organization, the shadowy and virulently anti-socialist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS).

The Congress party-led UPA government has responded to the anti-Christian pogrom in Orissa by issuing pro forma statements deploring the violence. Only in recent days and after French President Nicolas Sarkozy raised the matter with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh during his visit to Paris has India’s central government begun to vigorously press the state government to halt the violence.

The strongest statement to date came from India’s Home Minister Shivraj Patil who during an Oct. 4 television interview lambasted the Orissa government for its “inaction,” which he termed a “violation of the [Indian] Constitution.” He also hinted at stronger measures including the possible dismissal of the state government and imposition of central government, noting that “there is a growing demand for President’s rule if the situation worsens.”

A systematic campaign of terror

The anti-Christian attacks began August 23 after a Hindu priest and VHP Vice President, Laxmananand Saraswati, were murdered by unknown assailants. Saraswati was a notorious Hindu extremist who had led violent communal campaigns against cow slaughter and purported “forced conversion” to Christianity.

The Communist Party of India (Maoist), a Naxhalite group that has been waging “armed struggle” against the Indian government for decades, subsequently claimed responsibility for Saraswati’s death, describing him as a “rabid anti-Christian ideologue and persecutor of innocent Christians” who “was responsible for the burning down of over 400 churches in Khandamal district alone.”

Despite this claim, the VHP leadership, without providing a shred of evidence, accused Christians of killing Saraswati and then, in keeping with its reactionary communalist ideology, set about to impose brutal collective punishment on the Christian population as a whole.

The Hindu supremacists have exploited Saraswati’s murder to widen and heighten a long-developing campaign aimed at intimidating the Christian minority. In January 1999, Barang Dal thugs murdered the missionary Graham Stewart Staines and his two young sons by setting fire to the jeep in which they were sleeping.

Undoubtedly the fact that Orissa is ruled by the reactionary BJD-BJP coalition has given the Hindu supremacist groups a sense of impunity.

The state government has abetted the anti-Christian campaign through its inaction and by seeking to cover up the deliberate and systematic character of the pogrom. A state official claimed that the communal rampage was “an emotional and spontaneous reaction of people to the killing of Swami Laxmananand Saraswati.”

One of India’s most impoverished states, Orissa is home to many tribal groups. In recent years it has become the focus of VHP and BD efforts to counter Christian missionary activity.

In Orissa and several other parts of India, sections of the tribal population and other groups viewed as lower-caste have embraced Christianity as a means of escaping Hindu caste discrimination and to secure access to the schooling, free health care, and other benefits provided by Christian missionaries.

The Hindu right claims that conversion to Christianity constitutes “denationalization,” and insists that the tribals are Hindus and must remain Hindus, although in fact most adhere to religious beliefs and practices that bear little resemblance to Hinduism.

The charge of “forced conversion” is a reactionary canard.

To be sure, the missionaries do seek to ingratiate themselves with the local population by providing services that the Indian state, including Orissa’s BJD-BJP government, has proven unwilling and woefully unable to provide. But the RSS and its offshoots like the VHP have done the same, seeking to use the provision of social welfare as a means to inculcate their noxious Hindutvite ideology.

As for the charge of “forced conversions,” it is the Hindu right that seeks to use compulsion. This involves bloody violence but also communal legislation. At the instigation of the Hindu right, India’s post-independence Congress government constitutionally limited the benefits of affirmative action programs for former untouchables (Scheduled Castes) to Hindus, thereby punishing untouchables who had converted to Christianity or Islam. This provision remains in force to this day.

In seeking to combat the missionary efforts in Kandamahal, the Hindu right has played on tribal divisions, inciting the “Hindu” Kondh against the Panas, who have converted or largely converted to Christianity. Both groups speak the same Kui language and have shared the region without hostility for centuries.

Karnataka and Kerala

No doubt emboldened by the state’s acquiescence before the anti-Christian campaign in Orissa, BD gangs on Sept. 14 launched attacks on the Christian community in the southern state of Karnataka, a state without any previous history of significant Hindu-Christian communal conflict

The BD mobs attacked 16 prayer houses and churches, breaking windows, doors and ransacking the properties. The attacks were especially intense in Dakshin Kannad, Chikmagalore Udupi and Mangalore districts. Many innocent parishioners, priests and nuns were also assaulted.

The following day in the coastal city of Mangalore, police attacked hundreds of Christian protesters, lobbing tear gas and mercilessly beating the protesters. Police even raided churches to arrest youth who had sought refuge there.

Karnataka Chief Minister and BJP leader B.S. Yediyurappa failed to condemn the unprovoked attacks by his communalist allies in the VHP and BD. Instead, he effectively justified them by demanding that the missionaries stop forcible conversions of Hindus to Christianity.

Parroting the VHP-BD propaganda, Yediyurappa declared, “There is no room for forcible conversion in democracy. No one should indulge in it ... The attacks have taken place in areas where there was conversion activity.”

Following a widespread public outcry against Yeddyurappa’s remarks, the police claimed to have arrested 53 Bajrang Dal activists and rounded-up over 100 others. The latter group possibly includes some of the victims themselves.

The Hindu communalists also spread their attacks on Sept. 15 to the neighboring state of Kerala, which is ruled by a coalition led by the Stalinist Communist Party of India (Marxist). In the Kasargode district of Kerala, Hindu thugs attacked a church adjoining a Christian missionary-run kindergarten.

The brazen and ongoing attacks against India’s Christian minority, which constitutes barely 2 percent of the country’s 1.1 billion population, is a result not only of the criminal actions of the BJP and its Hindu supremacist allies. It is also a product of the cowardice and complicity of the Congress Party, which both fears confronting the Hindu “right” and itself has repeatedly courted “Hindu sentiments” in the hope that such a tactic will bring electoral dividends.

The quasi-indifference of the Congress-led UPA government to the events in Orissa needs to be contrasted with its hysterical and bellicose reaction to a series of terrorist bombings in New Delhi, Ahmedabad (Gujarat), and Jaipur (Rajasthan) over the past several months. The UPA has mounted shrill and communally-tinged campaigns against “Pakistan-supported Islamic terrorism,” ordered police to mount dragnets targeting poor Muslim neighbourhoods, and is now threatening to draft a new draconian anti-terrorism law in consultation with the Bush administration’s Homeland Security Department.

Similarly, the UPA has reacted with extraordinary urgency and intolerance in Kashmir, imposing round the clock curfews and supporting the use of lethal force to suppress recent anti-Indian protests. These protests were triggered by the attempt of the Congress-led state government to curry favor with the Hindu right by granting land to a shrine that has been promoted as a pilgrimage site by the VHP and other Hindu supremacist groups.

The complicity of the Congress Party with the communalists exposes as a lie the endlessly repeated claim of the Stalinist Parties, especially that of the Communist Party of India (Marxist), CPM, that the Congress Party is as a force for secularism in India.

The belated verbal offensive by the UPA against the Orissa government is prompted more by concern that the country’s image will be tarnished in the eyes of international investors than outrage over the persecution of the Christian minority. French President Sarkozy’s questioning of the Indian Prime Minister as to what steps New Delhi is taking to protect Christians in India no doubt was an acute political embarrassment to Manmohan Singh, who routinely touts India as a shining secular democracy surrounded by communal governments in South Asia.

Working people should not look to, or rely upon, any of the existing political parties or state institutions to protect India’s minorities. Communalism and casteism are in the final analysis weapons of the bourgeoisie to divide the working class and maintain its class rule.

The struggle against communalism requires the independent political mobilization of the working class on a program of socialist and democratic demands that address the burning problems of all India’s toilers, irrespective of mother-tongue, religion or caste.

India: Hindu communalists target Christian minority in Orissa and other states
 
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SECULAR INDIA? Christian genocide in Indian Orissa-pictures

"If the Untouchable Dalits try to escape slavery and untouchability by converting to Islam or Christianity they are persecuted, massacred, raped and burnt alive. How dare the Dalits convert to Christianity? We have placed a few quotes on those who believe that Gandhi believed in Non-Violence and that his country is based on those principles. Seargetn major Gandhi supported all the wars that the British fought, and perpetuated the worst form of domestic violence on his wife. he abused baby girls as old as 12. Today’s carnage in Orissa is to be seen in the light of the extermination of Buddhism from the place of its birth, the genocide of Muslims in Gujarat, the incarceration of 12 million Kashmiris in Indian Occupied Kashmir and the abuse of 250 million Dalits who are treated as the Untouchable." MOIN ANSARI

SECULAR INDIA? Christian genocide in Indian Orissa-pictures RUPEE NEWS: Recording History, Narrating Archives, Strategic Intellibrief Analysis: Noticias de Rupia | Nouvelles de Roupie | Rupiennachrichten | ??????? ????? | ???? |
 
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Malegaon, Modasa And Mehrauli Blasts: The Hindutva Connection?

By Subhash Gatade

04 October, 2008

Countercurrents.org

Saba Parveen still repents the fact that she sent her younger sister Farheen to Bhikku Chowk to buy some Pakoras. Little she could have the premonition that she would never get to see her 10 year old sister a class V student alive.

The blast at Malegaon's Bhikku Chowk, has literally shattered the family of Shaikh Liaquat Wahiuddin, Farheen's father who lives around 100 feet away from the Chowk near the Kasbapada masjid. A father of three daughters and two sons and a wife has seen all the hell broke lose soon after the bomb blast.

The couple fainted when they reached Wadia hospital to see their own daughter who had suffered severe burns in the blast turned lifeless.

The latest bomb blasts in Malegaon have seen four deaths wherein a motorcycle parked near old SIMI office which was laden with explosives exploded killing four people on the spot. It was worth noting that the people living in the vicinity of the Chowk had informed the police about this unclaimed motorcycle standing there for hours together. But the police did not bother to turn up and reached the place only after the blast which saw these deaths.

It is not difficult to imagine the palpable anger which exists among people about the callousness of the police and the insensitivity of the administration. People of this town which has a significant no of Muslim population have not forgotten the treatment meted out to them by the police and the administration when there were similar blasts in the city during their religious congregations killing 40 people in 2006. Despite enough hints about the involvement of Hindutva terror groups in the perpetration of these acts, where a torso with a fake beard was also identified, ultimately saw few Muslim youths getting booked for this crime who are still languishing in jail. A CBI enquiry which was ordered after lot of pressure claims to have reached a deadend.

In a recent meeting with Baba Siddique, the 'guardian' minister of Nasik, representatives of different Muslim organisations in Malegaon gave vent to their feelings of disgust and deep hurt over the developments. Angry community leaders asked the minister "You blame SIMI for blasts in temples, you blame SIMI for blasts in market places, you blame SIMI for blast Masjids. The latest blast has taken place just below the SIMI office. Now whom will you blame ?"( Mailtoday, Oct 3, 2008)

Hemant Karkare, chief of the Anti Terrorist Squad of Maharashtra Police, who was instrumental in nabbing the activists of Sanatan Sanstha and Hindu Janjagruti Samity for the bomb blasts in Thane, Vashi and few other places in Maharashtra (June 2008) and his team of officers also shied away from blaming some or the other Islamic terrorist organisation for the blast.The perpetrators of the bomb blast who had packed a splendour motorcycle with nuts, bolts, nails and ballbearings and three kilograms of explosive material, near a mosque, beside a SIMI office and the time chosen by them - on the eve of Eid - has definitely put local police and ATS groping in the dark.

But according to an investigative report filed by Mailtoday ( 1 October 2008) : "Police, however, are sure of one thing - that the blasts in Malegaon and Modasa in Gujarat were a coordinated effort, as both occured at around 9.30 p.m. in Muslim dominated areas.Karkare felt that the Gujarat and the Malegaon blasts were similar in nature also."
In fact any close watcher of the bomb blasts in the country cannot miss the fact that bikes have been a favourite instrument of the Bajrang Dal to attack Muslims. A narcotest of those involved in Nanded bomb blasts (April 2006) which saw deaths of two Bajrang Dal activists had clearly revealed that 'mysterious blasts' in Parbhani in 2003 and Jalna (2004) which involved perpetrators on bikes throwing bombs at the congregation and fleeing were actually the handiwork of a terror module of the Bajrang Dal itself.

The report in Mailtoday further adds " This is similar to the blast in Mehrauli market in New Delhi blast on Saturday and also some other cases where bombs were placed on bikes."

Of course Mailtoday is not alone in pointing fingers at Hindu terror groups for these bomb blasts, a detailed writeup in Indian Express ( Hindu Extremist Groups on Radar In Malegaon Probe, Sagnik Chowdhury, 1 st October 2008) reiterates the line of thinking of the ATS officials as far as the particular blast is concerned. " A day after the Maharashtra police said it could not rule out the possibility of Hindu extremist hand in Monday's blast in Malegaon, investigators are revisiting the crude bombs that were planted in auditoriums on the outskirts of Mumbai earlier this year." The ATS is planning to question the activists of Hindu Janjagruti Samiti, Sanatan Sanstha and other stray Hindu extremist organisations for their possible involvement in the act.The 1020 page chargesheet filed by the ATS in September against the members of these organisations for their terrorist acts is an added reminder for it to pursue the case in a balanced manner.

A deeper analysis of terror strikes since 2006 also reveal that there are at least five such terror strikes which targeted minorities and their religious places and they still remain unresolved. A report filed by Aman Sharma ( Mailtoday, October 3, 2008) provides details of these blasts and the status of investigations. Jama Masjid blast ( 14 injured, April 2006 - Friday) where low intensity, crude bombs were placed in a polythene bag is still pending with Delhi police, no outfit has been named. Malegaon ( 40 killed, September 8, 2006 - Friday) which saw four bombs outside mosques on Shab-e-Barat where RDX-ammonium nitrate bombs in boxes on bicycles was used, still remains unresolved. The investigation in Samjhuta express blasts (66 killed, Feb 19, 2007) where six bombs were planted inside Indo-Pak Samjhauta Express has also not shown any progress and neither any organisation has been named. The case of Mecca Masjid blasts ( 11 killed, May 18, 2007 -Friday) where two bombs were planted inside Mecca Masjid in boxes, is also pending with CBI. The enquiry into Ajmer Sharif bomb blasts (3 killed, October 11, 2007 - Friday) where two bombs in tiffin boxes wee used and where ammonium nitrate bombs were triggered by mobile phone has also not made much headway.The case at present pending with Rajasthan police has also not named any organisation.

Looking at the fact that communal common sense dominates the functioning of the police and the media in our country it is difficult to predict what will happen next. The investigations into the recent Kanpur blast (24 August 2008) which saw deaths of two RSS activists, Rajiv Mishra and Bhupendra Chopra, while making ammonium nitrate bombs, is an example worth studying. While the police took two of their colleagues for narcoanalysis, it did not even bother to question their alleged mentors -one of whom happened to be a Professor in IIT with RSS background.

Malegaon, Modasa And Mehrauli Blasts: The Hindutva Connection? By Subhash Gatade
 
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