Choppergate raises question marks over Dassault's re-entry into MMRCA

[Koovie]

why cant we just sign the rafale deal as soon as possible??feel like banging my head.

Chill dude, we are talking about + billion USD, full ToT and 50% offset which have to be reinvested in India. This will take its time, both parties want to have maximum gain an minimum loss.

Besides the current negotiations are basically fine tuning, the bulk of the negotiations are over.

 

[Sergi]

Don't expect to see a 2nd MMRCA competition here, since this is a very different deal. IN only send out an RFI to see what the possibilities could be, but at the end the deal is too small, won't be a licence production and might have other priorities anyway (catapults). I still expect a combined deal with the US and not a real competition where the Rafale/Dassault might bring in their advantages.

By combined you mean catapult + Hornets , right ???

40+ pieces of the jets will still count more than USD 5 billion. Nobody will want to miss that.

 

[Koovie]

Buddy I have write this in LCA sticky few months ago too. It not from any link or source. I get that from a retired IAF high ranker. You can have your option on that.

I don't get your logic behind HAL being busy and spend on production capabilities. Please explain.
As far as I know HAL built a dedicated production line for planes. Like Nasik has 1/2 for MKIs. Rafael will have one in B'lore. And I don't think any of the production affect the other.

And about FGFA, HAL press conference said they will be making protos of FGFA so guess when it will be going to production. I don't think it will hit production before 2020

HAL is not known for its management capabilities, right now they have to produce MKIs, Dhruvs and other stuff with their limited facilities. And now imagine them building highly advanced fighters like the 5th gen FGFA, the Rafale and many other aircraft like the MRTA. It will be a giant mess. Thats for sure. And now imagine the IAF ordering so many Tejas, which is completely unrealistic anyways. No on knows about its flight characteristics and furthermore we will have much better options available anyway.

Besides, retired officers can talk much. I will only believe it when I see an official MoD/IAF report

 

[Dash]

Definalty but if US offer us SH at competitive price and tot then who knows. It will be a commercial tender after all. SH can beat Rafael on price anyday plus US will be closing the production lines so if they don't see India as a threat they can transfer it to India wild dream but its one possibility

Thats just wild day dreaming...F35 is way off the cards bro and no F18 on sight...Its a Rafale all the way.

 

[Sergi]

HAL is not known for its management capabilities, right now they have to produce MKIs, Dhruvs and other stuff with their limited facilities. And now imagine them building highly advanced fighters like the 5th gen FGFA, the Rafale and many other aircraft like the MRTA. It will be a giant mess. Thats for sure. And now imagine the IAF ordering so many Tejas, which is completely unrealistic anyways. No on knows about its flight characteristics and furthermore we will have much better options available anyway.

Besides, retired officers can talk much. I will only believe it when I see an official MoD/IAF report

Yu are free to belive what you want. I am not claiming anything. And please try out any retired personnel. You will understand its not easy to make them talk.

First , MKIs production line is up and running in Nasik. It will complete the production in 2017/18. ( assuming 270 is the final figure ) then the upgrade will start in that same facility

Rafael - new production line is under construction and is supposed to compete early next year.

LCA-Mk1 will complete its production if 40 a/c before 2018. And later can be converted to Mark-2 production line

Chopper productions lines are different and they are up and running form decades now. LCH will joint them soon

MRTA will reman the dream as it was decade ago.

FGFA is not going to production before 2020. HAL is going to make protos
http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-wa...ibe-next-gen-fighter-plans.html#ixzz2MJ6F9gWQ

Thats just wild day dreaming...F35 is way off the cards bro and no F18 on sight...Its a Rafale all the way.

Not even mentioned f-35
I know it's a long **** and given US attitude it's next to impossible. But it's possibility anyways.
Uncle Sam is known for tragic policy changes.

 

[Dash]

Don't expect to see a 2nd MMRCA competition here, since this is a very different deal. IN only send out an RFI to see what the possibilities could be, but at the end the deal is too small, won't be a licence production and might have other priorities anyway (catapults). I still expect a combined deal with the US and not a real competition where the Rafale/Dassault might bring in their advantages.

Can you please explain what do u mean by "combined deal" here? Are you saying that India will fo the FMS way to by F35?

 

[sancho]

By combined you mean catapult + Hornets , right ???

40+ pieces of the jets will still count more than USD 5 billion. Nobody will want to miss that.

Yes, or even EMALS and F35Cs. That might not give us the best fighter for our needs, or the first choice of IN, but the Mig 29K was it neither and they had to compromise to get what they wanted, a carrier. This case could be similar, IN wanted catapults for years and now they have a chance and it's likely that the US will do the same as the Russians and combine both with eachother.

Can you please explain what do u mean by "combined deal" here? Are you saying that India will fo the FMS way to by F35?

I guess this is answered with the post above.

 

[Dash]

Yes, or even EMALS and F35Cs. That might not give us the best fighter for our needs, or the first choice of IN, but the Mig 29K was it neither and they had to compromise to get what they wanted, a carrier. This case could be similar, IN wanted catapults for years and now they have a chance and it's likely that the US will do the same as the Russians and combine both with eachother.



I guess this is answered with the post above.

They didnt have much option because of the limited capability of INS Vikramaditya,So I will leave it at that.
However F 35 as rightly mentioned by you is not a fighter we need so I doubt there will be a chance IN will go for it.

If you really want F35 that much then you can have it on IAC 1 too, with the F35 VTOL version. But I dont see that coming. Now please dont say they already shopped for Mig 29Ks and they didnt have a choice either

 

[Cityboy]

Chankya strategy by india. . Floating the mmrca tender for decades years after years as to get favorable policy response from world powers like uk,france,us, russia. .till ultimate striker 5th generatn fgfa pakfa starts moving from prouction line with amca in future scope. .in the end no place for mmrca and mmrca wil be a story.

 

[sancho]

They didnt have much option because of the limited capability of INS Vikramaditya,So I will leave it at that.

True, but still IN asked Dassault and Boeing for infos on their fighters beeing operated from STOBAR carriers, before the Russians gave us no options anymore and combined the carrier with 16 x Migs. I smell a similar approach from the US too.

However F 35 as rightly mentioned by you is not a fighter we need so I doubt there will be a chance IN will go for it

If you really want F35 that much then you can have it on IAC 1 too, with the F35 VTOL version. But I dont see that coming. Now please dont say they already shopped for Mig 29Ks and they didnt have a choice either

No mate, I don't want F35 either and I don't see IN going for them, but they could compromise on catapults and F18 SHs with upgrades, instead of Rafale M or more Migs from STOBAR carriers again. We could form a similar combo as USN by taking F18SHs for refuelling, EW and 2nd day strike options, while a stealth fighter (imo AMCA) would be the prime fighter.
Btw F35B is no option for our STOBAR carriers as many people think, because they land vertically and not with arrested landing. The F35C could land arrested, but might be too heavy and not powerful enough to take off via sky-jump.