Chinese troops entered Indian territory, drove away herders: local official

[MH.Yang]

Liaoning and shandong are both handicapped by having no airborne radar, j15 jet with only 4000lbs payload and still no nuclear power. Its actually a liability to combat operations at sea.

Conventional power, the carrier cannot maintain 30knot speed and range.

J15 is total garbage. Have to choose between CAP, anti ship and strike role. And no AESA radar.

Escort warships have to be burdened to protect j15s in the air which is the opposite of what should be. Less response time to to defend itself and the carrier. Who needs decoys when their j15s can take that role.

No airborne radar, means there is no radar coverage beyond horizon especially against sea skimming missiles or low alt attack aircraft. Radar waves don't bend to earth curvature. Now that is very dangerous, no strike group can react fast enough against 100 tomahawkVs, NSM or LRASM coming up on the horizon at only 20kms away.

It's a cheap carrier, only a fraction of the price of an American one. And doing 30 kn is nice, but if escort ships can't keep up due to wave height, it makes little sense.

Shh, keep your voice down. The Chinese are pooping on modi's beard.

 

[serenity]

Liaoning and shandong are both handicapped by having no airborne radar, j15 jet with only 4000lbs payload and still no nuclear power. Its actually a liability to combat operations at sea.

Conventional power, the carrier cannot maintain 30knot speed and range.

J15 is total garbage. Have to choose between CAP, anti ship and strike role. And no AESA radar.

Escort warships have to be burdened to protect j15s in the air which is the opposite of what should be. Less response time to to defend itself and the carrier. Who needs decoys when their j15s can take that role.

No airborne radar, means there is no radar coverage beyond horizon especially against sea skimming missiles or low alt attack aircraft. Radar waves don't bend to earth curvature. Now that is very dangerous, no strike group can react fast enough against 100 tomahawkVs, NSM or LRASM coming up on the horizon at only 20kms away.

It's a cheap carrier, only a fraction of the price of an American one. And doing 30 kn is nice, but if escort ships can't keep up due to wave height, it makes little sense.

Agni-Prime is aimed exclusively at China since we’ve achieved nuclear deterrence with Pakistan way before.

The more we keep demonstrating these missiles, the more deterrence we technically build up. There’s more to it as there are several steps to deterrence and at some point, we might have to leak photos of 15-20 of them amassed somewhere.

Many of the earlier missiles went through stage-separation which hasn’t been used for a while now, giving a single solid missile. It’s much smaller, more compact and shows that we’re developing our missile technology. Demonstrating that we’re developing is an important part of deterrence.
When we have got a shorter, smaller missile which is capable of hitting places like Chengdu, Sichuan and possibly Hong Kong, it adds a different layer of deterrence.

Agni-P is a more modern missile within a range and regions that we’ve already covered but having a much shorter reaction time and easier to transport and other improvements makes it of a different caliber.

Modernization brings a different type of deterrence for which an extension of range isn’t always necessary

We're talking about Malacca strait.

India has no military ability to block Malacca strait. It has even less diplomatic ability to enforce a block on Malacca strait and killing global trade.

Just on military ability, this has nothing to do with PLAN. PLAN doesn't even need to be involved to destroy Indian navy. China has many hundreds of ASBM which are effective against very small boats that move faster than Indian fleets.

You talk about Mach 3 brahmos but China has mach 10 HGV and mach 20 ASBM in even higher numbers than you have brahmos. China also has far more (by thousands) of YJ-12 and YJ-18 missiles which are mach 2 to 3 in terminal phase and both are sea-skimming capable unlike Brahmos. Brahmos with sea skimming mode has far higher altitude and brahmos' speed reduces to around mach 2 in sea skimming mode.

If PLAN wants to send ships and get involved directly, even if we let you keep your Andaman's bases which can supply and launch Su-30MKI with brahmos, you don't have enough brahmos to sink even a quarter of PLAN. One type 055 has 112 VLS alone.

China has three Type 055 in service and in about a year's time at least 2 more joining. Seven Type 055 has been built already with four in fit out or sea trial phase. PLAN has more than 18 active Type 052D which already is superior to your yet to really get into proper service Vish class and superior to your Kalcutta by far. You only have 3 Kolkatta class! 3!

PLAN has 6 Type 052C. In combination with more than 30 Type 054. That is India navy's (32+16)x3 = 144 VLS in the three Kolkatas, another 144 in the three Delhi class, 48x2 for the two Vish class, 40x6 in the six Talwar class for a total of 624 missiles of air defence and anti surface.

Compared to China's 112x 5 (two more 055s joining fleet) + 18x64 + 6x56 + 30x40 = 3248 missiles of air defence types and anti surface. This doesn't count short range point defence missiles. China has roughly over 2500 missile advantage over India today! This is larger than all the European navies combined in just the difference. China is also building new 055 and 052D at a rate of at least four a year versus India's 1 Vish every 2 years or so on average. Not to mention the 055 is like two Vish class.

The other assets from both sides are roughly equal in capability and modernity but with PLAN having more of them, have their own weapons and not needing to import in times of war. PLAN also at least mid life upgraded nearly half a dozen ships to take some modern sensors and weapons whereas India has not done such a thing for their early 2000s ships.

Even if every single 1000 brahmos India roughly has can be fired effectively at whole PLAN, China can send 2 interceptors to each one just in pure defence ideal alone. Not counting CIWS and point defence missiles to say nothing of new generations of electronic attack and jamming. Reminder that Russia offered Onyks (brahmos) to China in early 2000s. In attack or in balance fitout, China outguns India more than 5:1 and just on the water! On the land based offensive weapons, China can send a few dozen ballistic missiles and cruise missiles to every single indian base and use new satellite guidance and HALE drones like WZ-8 and WZ-7 or Divine Eagle and Soar Dragon or whatever guidance and comms assets they please. India has none of this stuff. Then consider PLARF has hundreds of thousands of 50km to 300km ranged rocket artillery backed by a land force more than twice the size of India's and with weapons at least 2 generations ahead of India's in the most and parity with India at weakest. China also doesn't need to import nearly everything. India imports rifles and even ammunition and nearly every piece of ordinance from overseas. You know how easy it is to cut supply, play politics, and disrupt supply in times of war?

Both PLAN carriers are far larger and stronger than India's two. J-15 the original is more handicapped particularly on STOBAR but those J-15s still are superior in payload, range, weapons capability, and sensors than Mig-29K of IN. They are also in far greater numbers and we don't need to import every part and every plane.

Now Type 003 is being built and later on there will be Type 004 and 005 before India finishes its first total new generation of carrier even in design to say nothing of completion and service. J-35 will be a better air wing addition and J-15D electronic warfare variant is ready now. J-15A updated is also ready with AESA and new upgrades. All of these, including original J-15, are still better than Mig-29K and there are far more J-15s than India bought Mig-29K.

Submarine force is even greater is disparity of numbers and capability.

Now PLAN cannot afford to send the entire feet of course. Nor even half available resources. I would say if India diplomatically found a way around blocking Malacca strait which is highly dubious already since over 100 countries not aligned with the west all depend on this trade route, even the military solution for India is laughable. China doesn't need to send many ships, just sink a few IN capital ships and destroyers using ASBM and HGV and India will back down.

If India did such a thing, it would also already be full war, China could destroy IN from Liaoning using ASBM and HGV (the province not the ship as you were confused earlier despite my making it obvious we're talking about launch of strategic anti-ship weapons). It can also escalate land war with India since India dares open up the war with first move. China would be justified in land attacks to try and cut off chicken's neck. India diverting a lot of forces to Assam means Pakistan can make moves in the west. So it would be core PLA force concentration in Assam side vs half of Indian force concentration after India bolsters Assam side.

Anyway you admit this is all a waste of words since India does not dare block Malacca strait even if it can somehow find diplomatic agreement from everyone who would be affected.

 

[PakFactor]

Project 15A and P15B Bravo destroyers of Indian Navy carries 16 BrahMos missiles. Thats 48 tons of Anti-ship Firepower. In comparison ships of this size(7500 tons) carry 8 x Harpoons or 8 x Exocet. Thats just 6.2 tons of Anti-ship Firepower. BrahMos is bigger, heavier and WAAAY more capable than Exocet/Harpoon or any similar subsonic missile.
It carries 533mm HEAVY Torpedo like the Varunastra Torpedo. It has a much more powerful warhead and a higher range of 40 kms. In comparision, other Destroyers carry 324mm light torpedo tubes. Less firepower and ranges of only around 10 kms. Vishakapatnam Class has accomodation for 2 full armed Helicopters . Many destroyers can accommodate only 1 helicopter. Barak 8 is an excellent missile, but i would have been happy if it had 16-24 additional Barak 8.
The design of our warships ensures a fantastic broadside coverage.
LRSAM has a higher hit probability than enemy missiles. In terms of protection, our destroyers and frigates are top class. Don't forget the EW capability of the MFstar and the DRDO Shakti EW suite. Now coming to offensive weapons: 16 brahmos is excellent and can effectively sink as much as 12 enemy ships including enemy aircraft carrier. I would have preferred atleast 4 of the newly developed SMART missile (similar to ASROC) to scare and target enemy submarine, but i believe this missile is around 2m longer than Brahmos!!


Brahmos perform low skimming with greater speed >>>mach 3, can carry more warheads than Chinese anti-ship missiles. Brahmos travel much faster in its terminal stage. And with accuracy of "1m CEP".
Sea skimming is upto terminal phase after that Brahmos does split-S manuever attack which makes it even more lethal....

Copying word for word a banned Indian burner account from January of this year. How many of you are there?

@waz

 

[khansaheeb]

Modi not happy:-

 

[TheSolution]

The same MKI who couldn't even deal with JF-17, F-16 and Mirage III?

The "Asian Raptor" was reduced to an AMRAAM dodger running away with his balls tucked, and still got hit

 

[punch2000]

We're talking about Malacca strait.

India has no military ability to block Malacca strait. It has even less diplomatic ability to enforce a block on Malacca strait and killing global trade.

Just on military ability, this has nothing to do with PLAN. PLAN doesn't even need to be involved to destroy Indian navy. China has many hundreds of ASBM which are effective against very small boats that move faster than Indian fleets.

You talk about Mach 3 brahmos but China has mach 10 HGV and mach 20 ASBM in even higher numbers than you have brahmos. China also has far more (by thousands) of YJ-12 and YJ-18 missiles which are mach 2 to 3 in terminal phase and both are sea-skimming capable unlike Brahmos. Brahmos with sea skimming mode has far higher altitude and brahmos' speed reduces to around mach 2 in sea skimming mode.

If PLAN wants to send ships and get involved directly, even if we let you keep your Andaman's bases which can supply and launch Su-30MKI with brahmos, you don't have enough brahmos to sink even a quarter of PLAN. One type 055 has 112 VLS alone.

China has three Type 055 in service and in about a year's time at least 2 more joining. Seven Type 055 has been built already with four in fit out or sea trial phase. PLAN has more than 18 active Type 052D which already is superior to your yet to really get into proper service Vish class and superior to your Kalcutta by far. You only have 3 Kolkatta class! 3!

PLAN has 6 Type 052C. In combination with more than 30 Type 054. That is India navy's (32+16)x3 = 144 VLS in the three Kolkatas, another 144 in the three Delhi class, 48x2 for the two Vish class, 40x6 in the six Talwar class for a total of 624 missiles of air defence and anti surface.

Compared to China's 112x 5 (two more 055s joining fleet) + 18x64 + 6x56 + 30x40 = 3248 missiles of air defence types and anti surface. This doesn't count short range point defence missiles. China has roughly over 2500 missile advantage over India today! This is larger than all the European navies combined in just the difference. China is also building new 055 and 052D at a rate of at least four a year versus India's 1 Vish every 2 years or so on average. Not to mention the 055 is like two Vish class.

The other assets from both sides are roughly equal in capability and modernity but with PLAN having more of them, have their own weapons and not needing to import in times of war. PLAN also at least mid life upgraded nearly half a dozen ships to take some modern sensors and weapons whereas India has not done such a thing for their early 2000s ships.

Even if every single 1000 brahmos India roughly has can be fired effectively at whole PLAN, China can send 2 interceptors to each one just in pure defence ideal alone. Not counting CIWS and point defence missiles to say nothing of new generations of electronic attack and jamming. Reminder that Russia offered Onyks (brahmos) to China in early 2000s. In attack or in balance fitout, China outguns India more than 5:1 and just on the water! On the land based offensive weapons, China can send a few dozen ballistic missiles and cruise missiles to every single indian base and use new satellite guidance and HALE drones like WZ-8 and WZ-7 or Divine Eagle and Soar Dragon or whatever guidance and comms assets they please. India has none of this stuff. Then consider PLARF has hundreds of thousands of 50km to 300km ranged rocket artillery backed by a land force more than twice the size of India's and with weapons at least 2 generations ahead of India's in the most and parity with India at weakest. China also doesn't need to import nearly everything. India imports rifles and even ammunition and nearly every piece of ordinance from overseas. You know how easy it is to cut supply, play politics, and disrupt supply in times of war?

Both PLAN carriers are far larger and stronger than India's two. J-15 the original is more handicapped particularly on STOBAR but those J-15s still are superior in payload, range, weapons capability, and sensors than Mig-29K of IN. They are also in far greater numbers and we don't need to import every part and every plane.

Now Type 003 is being built and later on there will be Type 004 and 005 before India finishes its first total new generation of carrier even in design to say nothing of completion and service. J-35 will be a better air wing addition and J-15D electronic warfare variant is ready now. J-15A updated is also ready with AESA and new upgrades. All of these, including original J-15, are still better than Mig-29K and there are far more J-15s than India bought Mig-29K.

Submarine force is even greater is disparity of numbers and capability.

Now PLAN cannot afford to send the entire feet of course. Nor even half available resources. I would say if India diplomatically found a way around blocking Malacca strait which is highly dubious already since over 100 countries not aligned with the west all depend on this trade route, even the military solution for India is laughable. China doesn't need to send many ships, just sink a few IN capital ships and destroyers using ASBM and HGV and India will back down.

If India did such a thing, it would also already be full war, China could destroy IN from Liaoning using ASBM and HGV (the province not the ship as you were confused earlier despite my making it obvious we're talking about launch of strategic anti-ship weapons). It can also escalate land war with India since India dares open up the war with first move. China would be justified in land attacks to try and cut off chicken's neck. India diverting a lot of forces to Assam means Pakistan can make moves in the west. So it would be core PLA force concentration in Assam side vs half of Indian force concentration after India bolsters Assam side.

Anyway you admit this is all a waste of words since India does not dare block Malacca strait even if it can somehow find diplomatic agreement from everyone who would be affected.

Hitting a warship with a ballistic missile is a complex systematic project. It takes not only the missile itself but also many other support systems – such as satellite navigation, terminal target identification, guidance, and maneuvering systems. Systems like the P8I are best in class. The Chinese know all too well that it is the best in the category of anti-submarine aircraft. Similarly, the M777 light howitzers are making their presence felt in the difficult terrains of Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh.

MH60R will further augment the capabilities of IN, as this will take the interoperability between the two assets to the next level. MH-60R are multi-mission maritime helicopters designed for Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) and Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW) with the C4I capabilities. The operational capabilities of such airborne assets are enhanced multi-fold when they operate as a part of the Fleet Task Force at sea. These specialised helicopters have the capability to engage targets which are even over-the-horizon.

 

[serenity]

The same MKI who couldn't even deal with JF-17, F-16 and Mirage III?

The "Asian Raptor" was reduced to an AMRAAM dodger running away with his balls tucked, and still got hit

He is saying MKI used in role of Brahmos missile truck. Without realizing such a thing means air bases must be defended perfectly from attack which is 100% impossible in fact non-sensical that air bases can even be defended in the first few hours as these are high priority targets for cruise and ballistic missiles. Even HGVs are worth expending for certain targets.

However that still means many hundreds of brahmos can potentially be launched in mass waves but honestly the Brahmos is much less effective than even typical cruise missiles of not even stealthy type.

Brahmos flies high and hot. It also is not stealthy at all. Even land attack cruise missiles of non stealth types at least are far harder to find and intercept due to terrain hugging and radar horizon. They make use of geography and terrain and are not visible until they are homing in on target. Many countries had the option of buying Onyks in the 2000s and still it is on offer by Russia but no major military except India's purchased that missile. At that era, stealthy cruise missiles of admittedly much lower range were already far more effective and available. HGVs were being tested by China and Russia. ASBM for the anti-ship role is the high end expensive option but all these are far better than Brahmos. Brahmos itself isn't much if even better than YJ-18, YJ-12 which are the mainstay, high service rate missiles for anti-surface.

 

[punch2000]

We're talking about Malacca strait.

India has no military ability to block Malacca strait. It has even less diplomatic ability to enforce a block on Malacca strait and killing global trade.

Just on military ability, this has nothing to do with PLAN. PLAN doesn't even need to be involved to destroy Indian navy. China has many hundreds of ASBM which are effective against very small boats that move faster than Indian fleets.

You talk about Mach 3 brahmos but China has mach 10 HGV and mach 20 ASBM in even higher numbers than you have brahmos. China also has far more (by thousands) of YJ-12 and YJ-18 missiles which are mach 2 to 3 in terminal phase and both are sea-skimming capable unlike Brahmos. Brahmos with sea skimming mode has far higher altitude and brahmos' speed reduces to around mach 2 in sea skimming mode.

If PLAN wants to send ships and get involved directly, even if we let you keep your Andaman's bases which can supply and launch Su-30MKI with brahmos, you don't have enough brahmos to sink even a quarter of PLAN. One type 055 has 112 VLS alone.

China has three Type 055 in service and in about a year's time at least 2 more joining. Seven Type 055 has been built already with four in fit out or sea trial phase. PLAN has more than 18 active Type 052D which already is superior to your yet to really get into proper service Vish class and superior to your Kalcutta by far. You only have 3 Kolkatta class! 3!

PLAN has 6 Type 052C. In combination with more than 30 Type 054. That is India navy's (32+16)x3 = 144 VLS in the three Kolkatas, another 144 in the three Delhi class, 48x2 for the two Vish class, 40x6 in the six Talwar class for a total of 624 missiles of air defence and anti surface.

Compared to China's 112x 5 (two more 055s joining fleet) + 18x64 + 6x56 + 30x40 = 3248 missiles of air defence types and anti surface. This doesn't count short range point defence missiles. China has roughly over 2500 missile advantage over India today! This is larger than all the European navies combined in just the difference. China is also building new 055 and 052D at a rate of at least four a year versus India's 1 Vish every 2 years or so on average. Not to mention the 055 is like two Vish class.

The other assets from both sides are roughly equal in capability and modernity but with PLAN having more of them, have their own weapons and not needing to import in times of war. PLAN also at least mid life upgraded nearly half a dozen ships to take some modern sensors and weapons whereas India has not done such a thing for their early 2000s ships.

Even if every single 1000 brahmos India roughly has can be fired effectively at whole PLAN, China can send 2 interceptors to each one just in pure defence ideal alone. Not counting CIWS and point defence missiles to say nothing of new generations of electronic attack and jamming. Reminder that Russia offered Onyks (brahmos) to China in early 2000s. In attack or in balance fitout, China outguns India more than 5:1 and just on the water! On the land based offensive weapons, China can send a few dozen ballistic missiles and cruise missiles to every single indian base and use new satellite guidance and HALE drones like WZ-8 and WZ-7 or Divine Eagle and Soar Dragon or whatever guidance and comms assets they please. India has none of this stuff. Then consider PLARF has hundreds of thousands of 50km to 300km ranged rocket artillery backed by a land force more than twice the size of India's and with weapons at least 2 generations ahead of India's in the most and parity with India at weakest. China also doesn't need to import nearly everything. India imports rifles and even ammunition and nearly every piece of ordinance from overseas. You know how easy it is to cut supply, play politics, and disrupt supply in times of war?

Both PLAN carriers are far larger and stronger than India's two. J-15 the original is more handicapped particularly on STOBAR but those J-15s still are superior in payload, range, weapons capability, and sensors than Mig-29K of IN. They are also in far greater numbers and we don't need to import every part and every plane.

Now Type 003 is being built and later on there will be Type 004 and 005 before India finishes its first total new generation of carrier even in design to say nothing of completion and service. J-35 will be a better air wing addition and J-15D electronic warfare variant is ready now. J-15A updated is also ready with AESA and new upgrades. All of these, including original J-15, are still better than Mig-29K and there are far more J-15s than India bought Mig-29K.

Submarine force is even greater is disparity of numbers and capability.

Now PLAN cannot afford to send the entire feet of course. Nor even half available resources. I would say if India diplomatically found a way around blocking Malacca strait which is highly dubious already since over 100 countries not aligned with the west all depend on this trade route, even the military solution for India is laughable. China doesn't need to send many ships, just sink a few IN capital ships and destroyers using ASBM and HGV and India will back down.

If India did such a thing, it would also already be full war, China could destroy IN from Liaoning using ASBM and HGV (the province not the ship as you were confused earlier despite my making it obvious we're talking about launch of strategic anti-ship weapons). It can also escalate land war with India since India dares open up the war with first move. China would be justified in land attacks to try and cut off chicken's neck. India diverting a lot of forces to Assam means Pakistan can make moves in the west. So it would be core PLA force concentration in Assam side vs half of Indian force concentration after India bolsters Assam side.

Anyway you admit this is all a waste of words since India does not dare block Malacca strait even if it can somehow find diplomatic agreement from everyone who would be affected.

Hitting a warship with a ballistic missile is a complex systematic project. It takes not only the missile itself but also many other support systems – such as satellite navigation, terminal target identification, guidance, and maneuvering systems. Systems like the P8I are best in class. The Chinese know all too well that it is the best in the category of anti-submarine aircraft. Similarly, the M777 light howitzers are making their presence felt in the difficult terrains of Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh.

MH60R will further augment the capabilities of IN, as this will take the interoperability between the three assets to the next level. MH-60R are multi-mission maritime helicopters designed for Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) and Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW) with the C4I capabilities. The operational capabilities of such airborne assets are enhanced multi-fold when they operate as a part of the Fleet Task Force at sea. These specialised helicopters have the capability to engage targets which are even over-the-horizon.”

J-35 will be a better China would be justified in land attacks to try and cut off chicken's neck. India diverting a lot of forces to Assam means Pakistan can make moves in the west. So it would be core PLA force concentration in Assam side vs half of Indian force concentration after India bolsters Assam side.

There is substantial Indian military presence in the vicinity of the corridor.

In 1975, Sikkim was annexed for that very strategic reason. Chinese troops just can not drive down the Himalayan passes. They will be too vulnerable with no room to maneuver.

In the event of a war between India and China and China mobilizes troops towards Siliguri, I wouldn't discount the possibility of India occupying Nepali and Bangladeshi territories adjacent to the chicken’s neck corridor even if they are not involved in the war.Breaking & occupying the Siliguri corridor has temporary/short-term gains. Due to such vulnerable geography, there is heavy presence of the Indian Army in Sikkim & the North East. The moment the neck breaks, the invading army will find itself in a sandwich-like scenario with the Indian army striking from the cut-off portions in the North-East, the reserves in Sikkim & the heavy strike force from the mainland. It is like walking into your own grave.

 

[serenity]

Hitting a warship with a ballistic missile is a complex systematic project. It takes not only the missile itself but also many other support systems – such as satellite navigation, terminal target identification, guidance, and maneuvering systems. Systems like the P8I are best in class. The Chinese know all too well that it is the best in the category of anti-submarine aircraft. Similarly, the M777 light howitzers are making their presence felt in the difficult terrains of Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh.

P-8I is not involved in ASBM since the countries who own and operate P-8 do not have or use ASBM.

But yes of course it is part of a complex system. It is linked with WZ-8 for high altitude and high speed (near hypersonic) or WZ-7 (high altitude and long loiter) and various satellites that are even capable of tracking airplanes over city clutter. The guidance side isn't complete without communication which is rather secretive but the Chinese disclosed that plasma cloud of maneuverable re-entry vehicle is overcome through the rear with signals that can be given by drones or satellites in higher altitude or bouncing signals. Inaccuracy of delay based on speed would be in mere meters. Quantum comms method is without delay at all and instantaneous over distance. Another Chinese disclosed method for comms is using lasers.

P8I is an excellent anti sub platform. India has one good type imported in extremely small number. China has dozens of Y-8 and Y-9 electronic types, AEWC, C4ISR types, and of course anti-submarine. I guess no one knows how good each truly are. As for software, computing, and electronics, China ain't lagging by much at all. All those special mission Y-8 and Y-9 type aircraft are all developed in the last few years with the latest modernity of components and available technologies. So if you want to talk about sub warfare. First of all, Chinese submarines are admittedly more modern and in far greater numbers than Indian ones and anti-sub is the same. I don't think the US exports their best anti-sub P8 to India and even if so, Chinese ones aren't behind if at all behind and not ahead. Not to mention again the fact that one builds its own and can have as many as it needs.

MH60R will further augment the capabilities of IN, as this will take the interoperability between the two assets to the next level. MH-60R are multi-mission maritime helicopters designed for Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) and Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW) with the C4I capabilities. The operational capabilities of such airborne assets are enhanced multi-fold when they operate as a part of the Fleet Task Force at sea. These specialised helicopters have the capability to engage targets which are even over-the-horizon.

All of this Malacca strait talk is really pointless until India actually makes this their policy. You think they can and have the option. I say they cannot and do not have any realistic diplomatic or military option of doing such a thing. About as likely as North Korea managing to invade Alaska or Hawaii successfully. Reality agrees with me since India has not even discussed this formally and is nowhere near close to even beginning to execute such an operation. Until they do, let's keep this conversation out of discussion. Just like we should keep some hypothetical North Korean invasion of Alaska out of discussion because it is ridiculous.

Hitting a warship with a ballistic missile is a complex systematic project. It takes not only the missile itself but also many other support systems – such as satellite navigation, terminal target identification, guidance, and maneuvering systems. Systems like the P8I are best in class. The Chinese know all too well that it is the best in the category of anti-submarine aircraft. Similarly, the M777 light howitzers are making their presence felt in the difficult terrains of Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh.

MH60R will further augment the capabilities of IN, as this will take the interoperability between the three assets to the next level. MH-60R are multi-mission maritime helicopters designed for Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) and Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW) with the C4I capabilities. The operational capabilities of such airborne assets are enhanced multi-fold when they operate as a part of the Fleet Task Force at sea. These specialised helicopters have the capability to engage targets which are even over-the-horizon.”

There is substantial Indian military presence in the vicinity of the corridor.

In 1975, Sikkim was annexed for that very strategic reason. Chinese troops just can not drive down the Himalayan passes. They will be too vulnerable with no room to maneuver.

In the event of a war between India and China and China mobilizes troops towards Siliguri, I wouldn't discount the possibility of India occupying Nepali and Bangladeshi territories adjacent to the chicken’s neck corridor even if they are not involved in the war.Breaking & occupying the Siliguri corridor has temporary/short-term gains. Due to such vulnerable geography, there is heavy presence of the Indian Army in Sikkim & the North East. The moment the neck breaks, the invading army will find itself in a sandwich-like scenario with the Indian army striking from the cut-off portions in the North-East, the reserves in Sikkim & the heavy strike force from the mainland. It is like walking into your own grave.

China cannot invade into India due to supply chain cannot be stretched beyond Himalayas like that. Similarly, India cannot invade into China with success due to this.

What I meant was China could try break off chicken's neck by forcing India to position military into the Assam region to counter. It isn't an occupation. There is no way either side can sustain occupation even with military victory. It'll be much harder than USA in Afghanistan. Purely discussing from that strategic pov where the action is aimed to disrupt Indian military position and strategy against Pakistan and in case of India China war, also China in the Ladakh side.

 

[punch2000]

He is saying MKI used in role of Brahmos missile truck. Without realizing such a thing means air bases must be defended perfectly from attack which is 100% impossible in fact non-sensical that air bases can even be defended in the first few hours as these are high priority targets for cruise and ballistic missiles. Even HGVs are worth expending for certain targets.

However that still means many hundreds of brahmos can potentially be launched in mass waves but honestly the Brahmos is much less effective than even typical cruise missiles of not even stealthy type.

Brahmos flies high and hot. It also is not stealthy at all. Even land attack cruise missiles of non stealth types at least are far harder to find and intercept due to terrain hugging and radar horizon. They make use of geography and terrain and are not visible until they are homing in on target. Many countries had the option of buying Onyks in the 2000s and still it is on offer by Russia but no major military except India's purchased that missile. At that era, stealthy cruise missiles of admittedly much lower range were already far more effective and available. HGVs were being tested by China and Russia. ASBM for the anti-ship role is the high end expensive option but all these are far better than Brahmos. Brahmos itself isn't much if even better than YJ-18, YJ-12 which are the mainstay, high service rate missiles for anti-surface.

BrahMos has a maximum speed of 3 Mach (around 3,450 kmph or 2,148 mph), and is difficult to intercept by surface-to-air missiles currently deployed from warships across the world. It also has immense ability to evade various radars.

The missile’s cruising altitude could be up to 15 km, and the lowest it can fly is 10 metres above the surface. It is a two-stage missile, with a solid propellant booster engine that kicks in in the first stage and brings the missile to supersonic speed before separating. Following this, the liquid ramjet comes into action, and takes the missile closer to Mach 3 in cruise phase. It operates on a ‘fire and forget’ principle — it doesn’t have to be constantly monitored on its way to the target. In direct attack mode, the missile travels at a lower altitude, directly striking the target

 

[punch2000]

P-8I is not involved in ASBM since the countries who own and operate P-8 do not have or use ASBM.

But yes of course it is part of a complex system. It is linked with WZ-8 for high altitude and high speed (near hypersonic) or WZ-7 (high altitude and long loiter) and various satellites that are even capable of tracking airplanes over city clutter. The guidance side isn't complete without communication which is rather secretive but the Chinese disclosed that plasma cloud of maneuverable re-entry vehicle is overcome through the rear with signals that can be given by drones or satellites in higher altitude or bouncing signals. Inaccuracy of delay based on speed would be in mere meters. Quantum comms method is without delay at all and instantaneous over distance. Another Chinese disclosed method for comms is using lasers.

P8I is an excellent anti sub platform. India has one good type imported in extremely small number. China has dozens of Y-8 and Y-9 electronic types, AEWC, C4ISR types, and of course anti-submarine. I guess no one knows how good each truly are. As for software, computing, and electronics, China ain't lagging by much at all. All those special mission Y-8 and Y-9 type aircraft are all developed in the last few years with the latest modernity of components and available technologies. So if you want to talk about sub warfare. First of all, Chinese submarines are admittedly more modern and in far greater numbers than Indian ones and anti-sub is the same. I don't think the US exports their best anti-sub P8 to India and even if so, Chinese ones aren't behind if at all behind and not ahead. Not to mention again the fact that one builds its own and can have as many as it needs.



All of this Malacca strait talk is really pointless until India actually makes this their policy. You think they can and have the option. I say they cannot and do not have any realistic diplomatic or military option of doing such a thing. About as likely as North Korea managing to invade Alaska or Hawaii successfully. Reality agrees with me since India has not even discussed this formally and is nowhere near close to even beginning to execute such an operation. Until they do, let's keep this conversation out of discussion. Just like we should keep some hypothetical North Korean invasion of Alaska out of discussion because it is ridiculous.



China cannot invade into India due to supply chain cannot be stretched beyond Himalayas like that. Similarly, India cannot invade into China with success due to this.

What I meant was China could try break off chicken's neck by forcing India to position military into the Assam region to counter. It isn't an occupation. There is no way either side can sustain occupation even with military victory. It'll be much harder than USA in Afghanistan. Purely discussing from that strategic pov where the action is aimed to disrupt Indian military position and strategy against Pakistan and in case of India China war, also China in the Ladakh side.

China being a bigger country has larger obligations. China can't decrease its presence in South China Sea as it faces hostile USA, Japan,UK, Korea Vietnam and Philippines. China and India don't share any maritime border. Chinese shipping lanes pass through Malacca Strait and India would like to choke China here in Indian Ocean. India will have a huge advantage in naval war in Indian Ocean due to proximity to the Battlefield. Indian Naval ships would have better refueling & resupplying advantage. Naval Air Arm and Indian Air Force would create havoc among Chinese ships. P8i Poseidon, MH-60R, S-400, Sukhois, Mig 29k, Brahmos & Harpoon Missiles would take heavy toll on Chinese Navy.
Indian bombers would then bombard Chinese naval vessels in Pakistan, especially in GWADER & Karachi ports. Oil tankers carrying crude for China in high seas will be bombarded.

Chinese submarines can be detected off major harbours by anti submarine vessels, especially from air. Each of these harbours will get cover by attack helicopters & frigates.

As all Chinese vessels will have to concentrate on the 4 Indian coastal harbours, they cannot do much of a problem.
Indian submarines can target naval facilities in Hainan island, can bombard HongKong & Shanghai. Bombers from Indian Aircraft carrier can also target Bejing, Canton, Kunming, Fuzhu & coastal naval bases.

Chittagong & Hambantotta base Chinese vessels will also be bombarded.

So in navy, inspite of superiority, India will have an upper hand.

P-8I is not involved in ASBM since the countries who own and operate P-8 do not have or use ASBM.

But yes of course it is part of a complex system. It is linked with WZ-8 for high altitude and high speed (near hypersonic) or WZ-7 (high altitude and long loiter) and various satellites that are even capable of tracking airplanes over city clutter. The guidance side isn't complete without communication which is rather secretive but the Chinese disclosed that plasma cloud of maneuverable re-entry vehicle is overcome through the rear with signals that can be given by drones or satellites in higher altitude or bouncing signals. Inaccuracy of delay based on speed would be in mere meters. Quantum comms method is without delay at all and instantaneous over distance. Another Chinese disclosed method for comms is using lasers.

P8I is an excellent anti sub platform. India has one good type imported in extremely small number. China has dozens of Y-8 and Y-9 electronic types, AEWC, C4ISR types, and of course anti-submarine. I guess no one knows how good each truly are. As for software, computing, and electronics, China ain't lagging by much at all. All those special mission Y-8 and Y-9 type aircraft are all developed in the last few years with the latest modernity of components and available technologies. So if you want to talk about sub warfare. First of all, Chinese submarines are admittedly more modern and in far greater numbers than Indian ones and anti-sub is the same. I don't think the US exports their best anti-sub P8 to India and even if so, Chinese ones aren't behind if at all behind and not ahead. Not to mention again the fact that one builds its own and can have as many as it needs.



All of this Malacca strait talk is really pointless until India actually makes this their policy. You think they can and have the option. I say they cannot and do not have any realistic diplomatic or military option of doing such a thing. About as likely as North Korea managing to invade Alaska or Hawaii successfully. Reality agrees with me since India has not even discussed this formally and is nowhere near close to even beginning to execute such an operation. Until they do, let's keep this conversation out of discussion. Just like we should keep some hypothetical North Korean invasion of Alaska out of discussion because it is ridiculous.



China cannot invade into India due to supply chain cannot be stretched beyond Himalayas like that. Similarly, India cannot invade into China with success due to this.

What I meant was China could try break off chicken's neck by forcing India to position military into the Assam region to counter. It isn't an occupation. There is no way either side can sustain occupation even with military victory. It'll be much harder than USA in Afghanistan. Purely discussing from that strategic pov where the action is aimed to disrupt Indian military position and strategy against Pakistan and in case of India China war, also China in the Ladakh side.

China’s 1,000 to 1,200 missiles are enough to neutralise in the initial stage all marked targets in the unlikely scenario of an all-out war; it requires 220 ballistic missiles to knock out one Indian airfield/airbase for a day. So, China would quickly finish its missile stock. India has 10 Agni-III launchers capable of hitting the entire Chinese mainland with eight Agni-II launchers to reach central China.

 

[serenity]

China being a bigger country has larger obligations. China can't decrease its presence in South China Sea as it faces hostile USA, Japan,UK, Korea Vietnam and Philippines. China and India don't share any maritime border. Chinese shipping lanes pass through Malacca Strait and India would like to choke China here in Indian Ocean. India will have a huge advantage in naval war in Indian Ocean due to proximity to the Battlefield. Indian Naval ships would have better refueling & resupplying advantage. Naval Air Arm and Indian Air Force would create havoc among Chinese ships. P8i Poseidon, MH-60R, S-400, Sukhois, Mig 29k, Brahmos & Harpoon Missiles would take heavy toll on Chinese Navy.
Indian bombers would then bombard Chinese naval vessels in Pakistan, especially in GWADER & Karachi ports. Oil tankers carrying crude for China in high seas will be bombarded.

Chinese submarines can be detected off major harbours by anti submarine vessels, especially from air. Each of these harbours will get cover by attack helicopters & frigates.

As all Chinese vessels will have to concentrate on the 4 Indian coastal harbours, they cannot do much of a problem.
Indian submarines can target naval facilities in Hainan island, can bombard HongKong & Shanghai. Bombers from Indian Aircraft carrier can also target Bejing, Canton, Kunming, Fuzhu & coastal naval bases.

Chittagong & Hambantotta base Chinese vessels will also be bombarded.

So in navy, inspite of superiority, India will have an upper hand.

What makes you think indian subs can venture near China's coast while Chinese ones which are far greater in numbers and modernity won't do that to India? Not to mention China having far greater anti-sub assets since it does face Japan and US who have the best subs in the world while India faces close to very little sub threat.

Everything Indian will be bombarded because China has no limit on range. India does have extreme limits on how far it can reach with offensive weapons, not only in the capability of those offensive weapons but how many they have and how many types they have. This should be combined with air defence. China has tens of thousands more medium and long range IAD systems. India has Akash and now has some token units of S-400 and India's offensive capability is far weaker.

For every Agni India has and can afford to throw conventionally, China has dozens more MRBM and IRBM not to mention so, so, so much more rocket artillery and SRBM. India has yet to properly put Nirbhay into service while there are more Chinese cruise missiles types than I can remember and more units than I can count.

So tell me exactly how you would perform Malacca strait blockade. Explain it and I will be able to see what you mean. I honestly cannot see that being achieved by India even if India's forces are multiplied by 5. India lacks the advanced weapons.

Like you have sort of done so here but honestly this is like a child's imagination.

"Chinese submarines can be detected off major harbours by anti submarine vessels, especially from air. Each of these harbours will get cover by attack helicopters & frigates.

As all Chinese vessels will have to concentrate on the 4 Indian coastal harbours, they cannot do much of a problem.
Indian submarines can target naval facilities in Hainan island, can bombard HongKong & Shanghai. Bombers from Indian Aircraft carrier can also target Bejing, Canton, Kunming, Fuzhu & coastal naval bases."

Chinese subs can be detected off major habours? Through what mechanism? Do you realize how big the world is? and how short ranged everything is? People have no sense of scale or realization of distance. The search and travel distance and loiter time of India's 8 P-8 aircraft is extremely extremely small for such a task. They would get shot down within 1000km of China by PLAAF alone and 10,000km from China by PLAN. China has more than 80 Y-8 and Y-9 special mission aircraft dedicated to naval warfare from anti-sub to EW and AEWC C4ISR to India's imported 8. There is absolutely zero evidence P-8 is more sophisticated if anything it is 5 years older and has fewer sensor types. China doesn't lag US by much in software and computing. Nor in GaN and sensors technology. In fact China's communications tech at least is better.

Indian frigates and ships cannot venture to SCS in wartime and survive. How will some Indian frigates be able to perform those duties with a PLAN at least 5 times the size and far more modern playing in its own front yard.

What makes you think India can walk towards China without being bludgeoned to pieces FAR away. As for meeting at Malacca Strait, how can india go to Malacca strait and impose a block against a military that is over 5 times larger, more advanced and modern on the whole, and an economy that is 5 times greater with far far greater manufacturing and industrial basis with far greater integration with the world economy that depends far more on China than it does on India. Sure okay let's say China sends 1/5 of PLAN only in a war with India just to keep the main force in eastern sea. That means the two navies are roughly equal. Even assuming 1:1 exchange roughly, India will lose basically its entire naval force (and have nothing to defend against Pakistan) in exchange for China's 1/5 of its naval force and at the end, fail to block Malacca strait.

Keep in mind Malacca strait is not that much closer to India and China has weapons that can sink Indian ships from anywhere in China whereas India has no such capability that can realistically be afforded during war. Agni missile is dull in comparison to DF-21 and DF-26 to say nothing of more advanced Chinese ballistic missiles and hypersonic weapons. Agni also in service in far smaller numbers. Every year China builds and adds close to 100 MRBM and IRBM type ballistic missiles. India adds Agni missiles at a much much slower pace and the missile itself is not more advanced in fact quite likely far less advanced. Almost greater gap between Indian and Chinese space program and technology levels.

India's Agni longer ranged missiles that can even hit eastern China are reserved for nuclear in case of nuclear war. They cannot be afforded to be used as conventional missiles just to put a conventional crater at a base or airfield which deals only 1 week max of damage before repairs complete. To keep an airfield out of service is on average 50 missiles per week. Attrition for India is out of the question.

While India only has a few dozen Agni missile (of all types) that can reach eastern China, China has a few hundred DF-11, a few hundred DF-15, a few hundred DF-16, a few hundred DF-21, a few hundred DF-26 and a few hundred DF-17.

DF-15, DF-16 are MaRVed or even HGVed as indicated in 2021 tests of DF-15. DF-17 is HGV. DF-21 and 26 have various forms including MaRV ASBM form. Then there is DF-100 scramjet powered HCM.

Now India cannot hit core China with SRBM. It needs MRBM and IRBM. China can hit core India using SRBM and even rocket artillery like WS series rockets and things like tactical ballistic missiles such as BRE series... some MLRS are 100km + and have guidance that can hit moving armor targets. There are thousands upon thousands of these things. China can position all this stuff near south west Tibet and bombard India top half endlessly while longer ranged and higher tier weapons can bombard Indian key assets endlessly. Far more so than India can to China.

 

[punch2000]

What makes you think indian subs can venture near China's coast while Chinese ones which are far greater in numbers and modernity won't do that to India? Not to mention China having far greater anti-sub assets since it does face Japan and US who have the best subs in the world while India faces close to very little sub threat.

Everything Indian will be bombarded because China has no limit on range. India does have extreme limits on how far it can reach with offensive weapons, not only in the capability of those offensive weapons but how many they have and how many types they have. This should be combined with air defence. China has tens of thousands more medium and long range IAD systems. India has Akash and now has some token units of S-400 and India's offensive capability is far weaker.

For every Agni India has and can afford to throw conventionally, China has dozens more MRBM and IRBM not to mention so, so, so much more rocket artillery and SRBM. India has yet to properly put Nirbhay into service while there are more Chinese cruise missiles types than I can remember and more units than I can count.

So tell me exactly how you would perform Malacca strait blockade. Explain it and I will be able to see what you mean. I honestly cannot see that being achieved by India even if India's forces are multiplied by 5. India lacks the advanced weapons.

Like you have sort of done so here but honestly this is like a child's imagination.

"Chinese submarines can be detected off major harbours by anti submarine vessels, especially from air. Each of these harbours will get cover by attack helicopters & frigates.

As all Chinese vessels will have to concentrate on the 4 Indian coastal harbours, they cannot do much of a problem.
Indian submarines can target naval facilities in Hainan island, can bombard HongKong & Shanghai. Bombers from Indian Aircraft carrier can also target Bejing, Canton, Kunming, Fuzhu & coastal naval bases."

Chinese subs can be detected off major habours? Through what mechanism? Do you realize how big the world is? and how short ranged everything is? People have no sense of scale or realization of distance. The search and travel distance and loiter time of India's 8 P-8 aircraft is extremely extremely small for such a task. They would get shot down within 1000km of China by PLAAF alone and 10,000km from China by PLAN. China has more than 80 Y-8 and Y-9 special mission aircraft dedicated to naval warfare from anti-sub to EW and AEWC C4ISR to India's imported 8. There is absolutely zero evidence P-8 is more sophisticated if anything it is 5 years older and has fewer sensor types. China doesn't lag US by much in software and computing. Nor in GaN and sensors technology. In fact China's communications tech at least is better.

Indian frigates and ships cannot venture to SCS in wartime and survive. How will some Indian frigates be able to perform those duties with a PLAN at least 5 times the size and far more modern playing in its own front yard.

What makes you think India can walk towards China without being bludgeoned to pieces FAR away. As for meeting at Malacca Strait, how can india go to Malacca strait and impose a block against a military that is over 5 times larger, more advanced and modern on the whole, and an economy that is 5 times greater with far far greater manufacturing and industrial basis with far greater integration with the world economy that depends far more on China than it does on India. Sure okay let's say China sends 1/5 of PLAN only in a war with India just to keep the main force in eastern sea. That means the two navies are roughly equal. Even assuming 1:1 exchange roughly, India will lose basically its entire naval force (and have nothing to defend against Pakistan) in exchange for China's 1/5 of its naval force and at the end, fail to block Malacca strait.

Keep in mind Malacca strait is not that much closer to India and China has weapons that can sink Indian ships from anywhere in China whereas India has no such capability that can realistically be afforded during war. Agni missile is dull in comparison to DF-21 and DF-26 to say nothing of more advanced Chinese ballistic missiles and hypersonic weapons. Agni also in service in far smaller numbers. Every year China builds and adds close to 100 MRBM and IRBM type ballistic missiles. India adds Agni missiles at a much much slower pace and the missile itself is not more advanced in fact quite likely far less advanced. Almost greater gap between Indian and Chinese space program and technology levels.

India's Agni longer ranged missiles that can even hit eastern China are reserved for nuclear in case of nuclear war. They cannot be afforded to be used as conventional missiles just to put a conventional crater at a base or airfield which deals only 1 week max of damage before repairs complete. To keep an airfield out of service is on average 50 missiles per week. Attrition for India is out of the question.

While India only has a few dozen Agni missile (of all types) that can reach eastern China, China has a few hundred DF-11, a few hundred DF-15, a few hundred DF-16, a few hundred DF-21, a few hundred DF-26 and a few hundred DF-17.

DF-15, DF-16 are MaRVed or even HGVed as indicated in 2021 tests of DF-15. DF-17 is HGV. DF-21 and 26 have various forms including MaRV ASBM form. Then there is DF-100 scramjet powered HCM.

Now India cannot hit core China with SRBM. It needs MRBM and IRBM. China can hit core India using SRBM and even rocket artillery like WS series rockets and things like tactical ballistic missiles such as BRE series... some MLRS are 100km + and have guidance that can hit moving armor targets. There are thousands upon thousands of these things. China can position all this stuff near south west Tibet and bombard India top half endlessly while longer ranged and higher tier weapons can bombard Indian key assets endlessly. Far more so than India can to China.

PLAAF has only 5 large airbases in Tibet and 2 in Xinjiang. India on the other hand has nearly 25 bases within flight range of the LAC.

So where are the majority of the 3000 aircraft of the PLAAF?

They are on the eastern side.

3500km away from the action.This would mean mid-air refueling. It
would mean a longer time to respond after a primary attack.



And India will be able to track the incoming aircraft long before it reaches the war theater.To launch any air campaign, fighter aircraft have to be deployed close to the border, roughly about 200 km to 300 km from the border of your enemy. Against India, China will have to deploy its fighter aircraft in Tibet and adjacent airfields in Xinjiang. China has 2,100 combat aircraft but most of them are deployed on its eastern seaboard



The Chinese airbases near the Indian border are not adequate for an Indian attack/retaliation. To launch any air campaign, fighter aircraft have to be deployed close to the border, roughly about 200 km to 300 km from the border of your enemy. Against India, China will have to deploy its fighter aircraft in Tibet and adjacent airfields in Xinjiang. China has 2,100 combat aircraft but most of them are deployed on its eastern seaboard. They cannot deploy all of them against India because of limited number of airfields in Tibet. Now, the second point is that to carry out sustained fighter aircraft operations, airfields have to be mutually supporting. By mutually supporting, I mean, that if you take off from an airfield there should be another airfield nearby within 100 or 200 km, so that in case of requirement for diversion etc., you have an alternative airfield. In the In the northern Xinjiang sector’s two airfields Hotan and Kashgar - the distance between them is 450 km while the distance between Hotan and Gargunsa is 550 kms. Hotan to Korla, the distance is 750 km so they are not mutually supportive. In western Tibet, there is only one airfield, Gargunsa. If Gargunsa is bombed by the Indian Air Force, there will be a gap of 1,500 km between Hotan and nearest airfield Hoping.There is another limitation you have. In the airfield, when you park aircraft for fighter operations, they have to be in blast protected shelters - concrete shelters. China doesn’t have any blast protected shelters at any of the airfields.
There is another Logistic problem. That of cargo weight.

Indian airbases with the exception of a few are the on the plains.



Tibet airbases are at an altitude of 4000m above sea level.
The lower air density at such high altitudes hampers jet engines and limits the amount of Weapons and fuel military aircraft can carry while still being able to take off.



Meteorological conditions across the Tibetan Plateau, moreover, are unpredictable, making it difficult to plan high-intensity air campaigns.
In short, the PLAAF cannot hope to run a Sustained air campaign.

What makes you think indian subs can venture near China's coast while Chinese ones which are far greater in numbers and modernity won't do that to India? Not to mention China having far greater anti-sub assets since it does face Japan and US who have the best subs in the world while India faces close to very little sub threat.

Everything Indian will be bombarded because China has no limit on range. India does have extreme limits on how far it can reach with offensive weapons, not only in the capability of those offensive weapons but how many they have and how many types they have. This should be combined with air defence. China has tens of thousands more medium and long range IAD systems. India has Akash and now has some token units of S-400 and India's offensive capability is far weaker.

For every Agni India has and can afford to throw conventionally, China has dozens more MRBM and IRBM not to mention so, so, so much more rocket artillery and SRBM. India has yet to properly put Nirbhay into service while there are more Chinese cruise missiles types than I can remember and more units than I can count.

So tell me exactly how you would perform Malacca strait blockade. Explain it and I will be able to see what you mean. I honestly cannot see that being achieved by India even if India's forces are multiplied by 5. India lacks the advanced weapons.

Like you have sort of done so here but honestly this is like a child's imagination.

"Chinese submarines can be detected off major harbours by anti submarine vessels, especially from air. Each of these harbours will get cover by attack helicopters & frigates.

As all Chinese vessels will have to concentrate on the 4 Indian coastal harbours, they cannot do much of a problem.
Indian submarines can target naval facilities in Hainan island, can bombard HongKong & Shanghai. Bombers from Indian Aircraft carrier can also target Bejing, Canton, Kunming, Fuzhu & coastal naval bases."

Chinese subs can be detected off major habours? Through what mechanism? Do you realize how big the world is? and how short ranged everything is? People have no sense of scale or realization of distance. The search and travel distance and loiter time of India's 8 P-8 aircraft is extremely extremely small for such a task. They would get shot down within 1000km of China by PLAAF alone and 10,000km from China by PLAN. China has more than 80 Y-8 and Y-9 special mission aircraft dedicated to naval warfare from anti-sub to EW and AEWC C4ISR to India's imported 8. There is absolutely zero evidence P-8 is more sophisticated if anything it is 5 years older and has fewer sensor types. China doesn't lag US by much in software and computing. Nor in GaN and sensors technology. In fact China's communications tech at least is better.

Indian frigates and ships cannot venture to SCS in wartime and survive. How will some Indian frigates be able to perform those duties with a PLAN at least 5 times the size and far more modern playing in its own front yard.

What makes you think India can walk towards China without being bludgeoned to pieces FAR away. As for meeting at Malacca Strait, how can india go to Malacca strait and impose a block against a military that is over 5 times larger, more advanced and modern on the whole, and an economy that is 5 times greater with far far greater manufacturing and industrial basis with far greater integration with the world economy that depends far more on China than it does on India. Sure okay let's say China sends 1/5 of PLAN only in a war with India just to keep the main force in eastern sea. That means the two navies are roughly equal. Even assuming 1:1 exchange roughly, India will lose basically its entire naval force (and have nothing to defend against Pakistan) in exchange for China's 1/5 of its naval force and at the end, fail to block Malacca strait.

Keep in mind Malacca strait is not that much closer to India and China has weapons that can sink Indian ships from anywhere in China whereas India has no such capability that can realistically be afforded during war. Agni missile is dull in comparison to DF-21 and DF-26 to say nothing of more advanced Chinese ballistic missiles and hypersonic weapons. Agni also in service in far smaller numbers. Every year China builds and adds close to 100 MRBM and IRBM type ballistic missiles. India adds Agni missiles at a much much slower pace and the missile itself is not more advanced in fact quite likely far less advanced. Almost greater gap between Indian and Chinese space program and technology levels.

India's Agni longer ranged missiles that can even hit eastern China are reserved for nuclear in case of nuclear war. They cannot be afforded to be used as conventional missiles just to put a conventional crater at a base or airfield which deals only 1 week max of damage before repairs complete. To keep an airfield out of service is on average 50 missiles per week. Attrition for India is out of the question.

While India only has a few dozen Agni missile (of all types) that can reach eastern China, China has a few hundred DF-11, a few hundred DF-15, a few hundred DF-16, a few hundred DF-21, a few hundred DF-26 and a few hundred DF-17.

DF-15, DF-16 are MaRVed or even HGVed as indicated in 2021 tests of DF-15. DF-17 is HGV. DF-21 and 26 have various forms including MaRV ASBM form. Then there is DF-100 scramjet powered HCM.

Now India cannot hit core China with SRBM. It needs MRBM and IRBM. China can hit core India using SRBM and even rocket artillery like WS series rockets and things like tactical ballistic missiles such as BRE series... some MLRS are 100km + and have guidance that can hit moving armor targets. There are thousands upon thousands of these things. China can position all this stuff near south west Tibet and bombard India top half endlessly while longer ranged and higher tier weapons can bombard Indian key assets endlessly. Far more so than India can to China.

If the Chinese Navy enter the IOR to engage with the Indian Navy, they will have to come through the malacca Strait. And this channel is very narrow; only 2km at its narrowest point.

It will be difficult for them to send naval assets in the IOR without significant resistance from the Indian Navy guarding the entrance via Indira Point.

The second, even more important point is that of OIL.

Oil is the fuel on which the war machine runs.
And 80% of China’s oil is imported through the Malacca strait.

A naval blockade on Malacca, Lombok and Sunda straits will bring upon an oil crisis.

What makes you think indian subs can venture near China's coast while Chinese ones which are far greater in numbers and modernity won't do that to India? Not to mention China having far greater anti-sub assets since it does face Japan and US who have the best subs in the world while India faces close to very little sub threat.

Everything Indian will be bombarded because China has no limit on range. India does have extreme limits on how far it can reach with offensive weapons, not only in the capability of those offensive weapons but how many they have and how many types they have. This should be combined with air defence. China has tens of thousands more medium and long range IAD systems. India has Akash and now has some token units of S-400 and India's offensive capability is far weaker.

For every Agni India has and can afford to throw conventionally, China has dozens more MRBM and IRBM not to mention so, so, so much more rocket artillery and SRBM. India has yet to properly put Nirbhay into service while there are more Chinese cruise missiles types than I can remember and more units than I can count.

So tell me exactly how you would perform Malacca strait blockade. Explain it and I will be able to see what you mean. I honestly cannot see that being achieved by India even if India's forces are multiplied by 5. India lacks the advanced weapons.

Like you have sort of done so here but honestly this is like a child's imagination.

"Chinese submarines can be detected off major harbours by anti submarine vessels, especially from air. Each of these harbours will get cover by attack helicopters & frigates.

As all Chinese vessels will have to concentrate on the 4 Indian coastal harbours, they cannot do much of a problem.
Indian submarines can target naval facilities in Hainan island, can bombard HongKong & Shanghai. Bombers from Indian Aircraft carrier can also target Bejing, Canton, Kunming, Fuzhu & coastal naval bases."

Chinese subs can be detected off major habours? Through what mechanism? Do you realize how big the world is? and how short ranged everything is? People have no sense of scale or realization of distance. The search and travel distance and loiter time of India's 8 P-8 aircraft is extremely extremely small for such a task. They would get shot down within 1000km of China by PLAAF alone and 10,000km from China by PLAN. China has more than 80 Y-8 and Y-9 special mission aircraft dedicated to naval warfare from anti-sub to EW and AEWC C4ISR to India's imported 8. There is absolutely zero evidence P-8 is more sophisticated if anything it is 5 years older and has fewer sensor types. China doesn't lag US by much in software and computing. Nor in GaN and sensors technology. In fact China's communications tech at least is better.

Indian frigates and ships cannot venture to SCS in wartime and survive. How will some Indian frigates be able to perform those duties with a PLAN at least 5 times the size and far more modern playing in its own front yard.

What makes you think India can walk towards China without being bludgeoned to pieces FAR away. As for meeting at Malacca Strait, how can india go to Malacca strait and impose a block against a military that is over 5 times larger, more advanced and modern on the whole, and an economy that is 5 times greater with far far greater manufacturing and industrial basis with far greater integration with the world economy that depends far more on China than it does on India. Sure okay let's say China sends 1/5 of PLAN only in a war with India just to keep the main force in eastern sea. That means the two navies are roughly equal. Even assuming 1:1 exchange roughly, India will lose basically its entire naval force (and have nothing to defend against Pakistan) in exchange for China's 1/5 of its naval force and at the end, fail to block Malacca strait.

Keep in mind Malacca strait is not that much closer to India and China has weapons that can sink Indian ships from anywhere in China whereas India has no such capability that can realistically be afforded during war. Agni missile is dull in comparison to DF-21 and DF-26 to say nothing of more advanced Chinese ballistic missiles and hypersonic weapons. Agni also in service in far smaller numbers. Every year China builds and adds close to 100 MRBM and IRBM type ballistic missiles. India adds Agni missiles at a much much slower pace and the missile itself is not more advanced in fact quite likely far less advanced. Almost greater gap between Indian and Chinese space program and technology levels.

India's Agni longer ranged missiles that can even hit eastern China are reserved for nuclear in case of nuclear war. They cannot be afforded to be used as conventional missiles just to put a conventional crater at a base or airfield which deals only 1 week max of damage before repairs complete. To keep an airfield out of service is on average 50 missiles per week. Attrition for India is out of the question.

While India only has a few dozen Agni missile (of all types) that can reach eastern China, China has a few hundred DF-11, a few hundred DF-15, a few hundred DF-16, a few hundred DF-21, a few hundred DF-26 and a few hundred DF-17.

DF-15, DF-16 are MaRVed or even HGVed as indicated in 2021 tests of DF-15. DF-17 is HGV. DF-21 and 26 have various forms including MaRV ASBM form. Then there is DF-100 scramjet powered HCM.

Now India cannot hit core China with SRBM. It needs MRBM and IRBM. China can hit core India using SRBM and even rocket artillery like WS series rockets and things like tactical ballistic missiles such as BRE series... some MLRS are 100km + and have guidance that can hit moving armor targets. There are thousands upon thousands of these things. China can position all this stuff near south west Tibet and bombard India top half endlessly while longer ranged and higher tier weapons can bombard Indian key assets endlessly. Far more so than India can to China.

The easiest way China can overcome their Geography problem is by launching Dongfeng Missiles.

But it will be an unwise move.

When a Missile is in the air, their is no way for the other country to know if the warhead is conventional or nuclear.

India will assume nuclear and launch its own Agni missiles.

And then it will be pouring Dongfengs and Agnis on India and China.

Cloudy with a chance of nukes…
The decision for both countries will be: Counterforce or Countervalue?

Counterforce means attacking enemy’s military installations.

Countervalue means attacking cities and innocent civilian population centers.

Nuclear think-tanks believe that in the fog of war, misinformation and disinformation will be at its peak.

A country starting with Counterforce attack, would assume the other can make (or has made) a Countervalue attack.
Once a single missile is launched between nuclear rivals, it can quickly escalate to Countervalue attacks targeting dozens of big cities including Mumbai and Shanghai.

The death toll will be in millions.

 

[punch2000]

What makes you think indian subs can venture near China's coast while Chinese ones which are far greater in numbers and modernity won't do that to India? Not to mention China having far greater anti-sub assets since it does face Japan and US who have the best subs in the world while India faces close to very little sub threat.

Everything Indian will be bombarded because China has no limit on range. India does have extreme limits on how far it can reach with offensive weapons, not only in the capability of those offensive weapons but how many they have and how many types they have. This should be combined with air defence. China has tens of thousands more medium and long range IAD systems. India has Akash and now has some token units of S-400 and India's offensive capability is far weaker.

For every Agni India has and can afford to throw conventionally, China has dozens more MRBM and IRBM not to mention so, so, so much more rocket artillery and SRBM. India has yet to properly put Nirbhay into service while there are more Chinese cruise missiles types than I can remember and more units than I can count.

So tell me exactly how you would perform Malacca strait blockade. Explain it and I will be able to see what you mean. I honestly cannot see that being achieved by India even if India's forces are multiplied by 5. India lacks the advanced weapons.

Like you have sort of done so here but honestly this is like a child's imagination.

"Chinese submarines can be detected off major harbours by anti submarine vessels, especially from air. Each of these harbours will get cover by attack helicopters & frigates.

As all Chinese vessels will have to concentrate on the 4 Indian coastal harbours, they cannot do much of a problem.
Indian submarines can target naval facilities in Hainan island, can bombard HongKong & Shanghai. Bombers from Indian Aircraft carrier can also target Bejing, Canton, Kunming, Fuzhu & coastal naval bases."

Chinese subs can be detected off major habours? Through what mechanism? Do you realize how big the world is? and how short ranged everything is? People have no sense of scale or realization of distance. The search and travel distance and loiter time of India's 8 P-8 aircraft is extremely extremely small for such a task. They would get shot down within 1000km of China by PLAAF alone and 10,000km from China by PLAN. China has more than 80 Y-8 and Y-9 special mission aircraft dedicated to naval warfare from anti-sub to EW and AEWC C4ISR to India's imported 8. There is absolutely zero evidence P-8 is more sophisticated if anything it is 5 years older and has fewer sensor types. China doesn't lag US by much in software and computing. Nor in GaN and sensors technology. In fact China's communications tech at least is better.

Indian frigates and ships cannot venture to SCS in wartime and survive. How will some Indian frigates be able to perform those duties with a PLAN at least 5 times the size and far more modern playing in its own front yard.

What makes you think India can walk towards China without being bludgeoned to pieces FAR away. As for meeting at Malacca Strait, how can india go to Malacca strait and impose a block against a military that is over 5 times larger, more advanced and modern on the whole, and an economy that is 5 times greater with far far greater manufacturing and industrial basis with far greater integration with the world economy that depends far more on China than it does on India. Sure okay let's say China sends 1/5 of PLAN only in a war with India just to keep the main force in eastern sea. That means the two navies are roughly equal. Even assuming 1:1 exchange roughly, India will lose basically its entire naval force (and have nothing to defend against Pakistan) in exchange for China's 1/5 of its naval force and at the end, fail to block Malacca strait.

Keep in mind Malacca strait is not that much closer to India and China has weapons that can sink Indian ships from anywhere in China whereas India has no such capability that can realistically be afforded during war. Agni missile is dull in comparison to DF-21 and DF-26 to say nothing of more advanced Chinese ballistic missiles and hypersonic weapons. Agni also in service in far smaller numbers. Every year China builds and adds close to 100 MRBM and IRBM type ballistic missiles. India adds Agni missiles at a much much slower pace and the missile itself is not more advanced in fact quite likely far less advanced. Almost greater gap between Indian and Chinese space program and technology levels.

India's Agni longer ranged missiles that can even hit eastern China are reserved for nuclear in case of nuclear war. They cannot be afforded to be used as conventional missiles just to put a conventional crater at a base or airfield which deals only 1 week max of damage before repairs complete. To keep an airfield out of service is on average 50 missiles per week. Attrition for India is out of the question.

While India only has a few dozen Agni missile (of all types) that can reach eastern China, China has a few hundred DF-11, a few hundred DF-15, a few hundred DF-16, a few hundred DF-21, a few hundred DF-26 and a few hundred DF-17.

DF-15, DF-16 are MaRVed or even HGVed as indicated in 2021 tests of DF-15. DF-17 is HGV. DF-21 and 26 have various forms including MaRV ASBM form. Then there is DF-100 scramjet powered HCM.

Now India cannot hit core China with SRBM. It needs MRBM and IRBM. China can hit core India using SRBM and even rocket artillery like WS series rockets and things like tactical ballistic missiles such as BRE series... some MLRS are 100km + and have guidance that can hit moving armor targets. There are thousands upon thousands of these things. China can position all this stuff near south west Tibet and bombard India top half endlessly while longer ranged and higher tier weapons can bombard Indian key assets endlessly. Far more so than India can to China.

Two-stage, solid- fuel, rail-mobile Agni-2, an improvement on the Agni-1, which can deliver a nuclear or conventional warhead more than 2,000 kilometres is probably targeted on western, central, and southern China.

Although the Agni-4 will be capable of striking targets in nearly all of China from northeastern India (including Beijing and Shanghai), India has also developed the longer- range Agni-5, a three-stage, solid-fuel, rail-mobile, near- intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) capable of delivering a warhead more than 8,000 kilometres. extra range will allow the Indian military to establish Agni-5 bases in central and southern India, further away from China.

What makes you think indian subs can venture near China's coast while Chinese ones which are far greater in numbers and modernity won't do that to India? Not to mention China having far greater anti-sub assets since it does face Japan and US who have the best subs in the world while India faces close to very little sub threat.

Everything Indian will be bombarded because China has no limit on range. India does have extreme limits on how far it can reach with offensive weapons, not only in the capability of those offensive weapons but how many they have and how many types they have. This should be combined with air defence. China has tens of thousands more medium and long range IAD systems. India has Akash and now has some token units of S-400 and India's offensive capability is far weaker.

For every Agni India has and can afford to throw conventionally, China has dozens more MRBM and IRBM not to mention so, so, so much more rocket artillery and SRBM. India has yet to properly put Nirbhay into service while there are more Chinese cruise missiles types than I can remember and more units than I can count.

So tell me exactly how you would perform Malacca strait blockade. Explain it and I will be able to see what you mean. I honestly cannot see that being achieved by India even if India's forces are multiplied by 5. India lacks the advanced weapons.

Like you have sort of done so here but honestly this is like a child's imagination.

"Chinese submarines can be detected off major harbours by anti submarine vessels, especially from air. Each of these harbours will get cover by attack helicopters & frigates.

As all Chinese vessels will have to concentrate on the 4 Indian coastal harbours, they cannot do much of a problem.
Indian submarines can target naval facilities in Hainan island, can bombard HongKong & Shanghai. Bombers from Indian Aircraft carrier can also target Bejing, Canton, Kunming, Fuzhu & coastal naval bases."

Chinese subs can be detected off major habours? Through what mechanism? Do you realize how big the world is? and how short ranged everything is? People have no sense of scale or realization of distance. The search and travel distance and loiter time of India's 8 P-8 aircraft is extremely extremely small for such a task. They would get shot down within 1000km of China by PLAAF alone and 10,000km from China by PLAN. China has more than 80 Y-8 and Y-9 special mission aircraft dedicated to naval warfare from anti-sub to EW and AEWC C4ISR to India's imported 8. There is absolutely zero evidence P-8 is more sophisticated if anything it is 5 years older and has fewer sensor types. China doesn't lag US by much in software and computing. Nor in GaN and sensors technology. In fact China's communications tech at least is better.

Indian frigates and ships cannot venture to SCS in wartime and survive. How will some Indian frigates be able to perform those duties with a PLAN at least 5 times the size and far more modern playing in its own front yard.

What makes you think India can walk towards China without being bludgeoned to pieces FAR away. As for meeting at Malacca Strait, how can india go to Malacca strait and impose a block against a military that is over 5 times larger, more advanced and modern on the whole, and an economy that is 5 times greater with far far greater manufacturing and industrial basis with far greater integration with the world economy that depends far more on China than it does on India. Sure okay let's say China sends 1/5 of PLAN only in a war with India just to keep the main force in eastern sea. That means the two navies are roughly equal. Even assuming 1:1 exchange roughly, India will lose basically its entire naval force (and have nothing to defend against Pakistan) in exchange for China's 1/5 of its naval force and at the end, fail to block Malacca strait.

Keep in mind Malacca strait is not that much closer to India and China has weapons that can sink Indian ships from anywhere in China whereas India has no such capability that can realistically be afforded during war. Agni missile is dull in comparison to DF-21 and DF-26 to say nothing of more advanced Chinese ballistic missiles and hypersonic weapons. Agni also in service in far smaller numbers. Every year China builds and adds close to 100 MRBM and IRBM type ballistic missiles. India adds Agni missiles at a much much slower pace and the missile itself is not more advanced in fact quite likely far less advanced. Almost greater gap between Indian and Chinese space program and technology levels.

India's Agni longer ranged missiles that can even hit eastern China are reserved for nuclear in case of nuclear war. They cannot be afforded to be used as conventional missiles just to put a conventional crater at a base or airfield which deals only 1 week max of damage before repairs complete. To keep an airfield out of service is on average 50 missiles per week. Attrition for India is out of the question.

While India only has a few dozen Agni missile (of all types) that can reach eastern China, China has a few hundred DF-11, a few hundred DF-15, a few hundred DF-16, a few hundred DF-21, a few hundred DF-26 and a few hundred DF-17.

DF-15, DF-16 are MaRVed or even HGVed as indicated in 2021 tests of DF-15. DF-17 is HGV. DF-21 and 26 have various forms including MaRV ASBM form. Then there is DF-100 scramjet powered HCM.

Now India cannot hit core China with SRBM. It needs MRBM and IRBM. China can hit core India using SRBM and even rocket artillery like WS series rockets and things like tactical ballistic missiles such as BRE series... some MLRS are 100km + and have guidance that can hit moving armor targets. There are thousands upon thousands of these things. China can position all this stuff near south west Tibet and bombard India top half endlessly while longer ranged and higher tier weapons can bombard Indian key assets endlessly. Far more so than India can to China.

Tata Power Company and the Larsen & Toubro (L&T) will supply a total of six Pinaka rocket regiments for the Indian Army.
These six Pinaka regiments comprise 114 launchers with automated gun aiming and positioning system (AGAPS) and 45 command posts to be procured from TPCL and L&T and 330 vehicles to be procured from Bharat Earth Movers Ltd. The regiments will be operationalised along the northern and the eastern borders and the induction is planned to be completed by 2024.

 

[punch2000]

What makes you think indian subs can venture near China's coast while Chinese ones which are far greater in numbers and modernity won't do that to India? Not to mention China having far greater anti-sub assets since it does face Japan and US who have the best subs in the world while India faces close to very little sub threat.

Everything Indian will be bombarded because China has no limit on range. India does have extreme limits on how far it can reach with offensive weapons, not only in the capability of those offensive weapons but how many they have and how many types they have. This should be combined with air defence. China has tens of thousands more medium and long range IAD systems. India has Akash and now has some token units of S-400 and India's offensive capability is far weaker.

For every Agni India has and can afford to throw conventionally, China has dozens more MRBM and IRBM not to mention so, so, so much more rocket artillery and SRBM. India has yet to properly put Nirbhay into service while there are more Chinese cruise missiles types than I can remember and more units than I can count.

So tell me exactly how you would perform Malacca strait blockade. Explain it and I will be able to see what you mean. I honestly cannot see that being achieved by India even if India's forces are multiplied by 5. India lacks the advanced weapons.

Like you have sort of done so here but honestly this is like a child's imagination.

"Chinese submarines can be detected off major harbours by anti submarine vessels, especially from air. Each of these harbours will get cover by attack helicopters & frigates.

As all Chinese vessels will have to concentrate on the 4 Indian coastal harbours, they cannot do much of a problem.
Indian submarines can target naval facilities in Hainan island, can bombard HongKong & Shanghai. Bombers from Indian Aircraft carrier can also target Bejing, Canton, Kunming, Fuzhu & coastal naval bases."

Chinese subs can be detected off major habours? Through what mechanism? Do you realize how big the world is? and how short ranged everything is? People have no sense of scale or realization of distance. The search and travel distance and loiter time of India's 8 P-8 aircraft is extremely extremely small for such a task. They would get shot down within 1000km of China by PLAAF alone and 10,000km from China by PLAN. China has more than 80 Y-8 and Y-9 special mission aircraft dedicated to naval warfare from anti-sub to EW and AEWC C4ISR to India's imported 8. There is absolutely zero evidence P-8 is more sophisticated if anything it is 5 years older and has fewer sensor types. China doesn't lag US by much in software and computing. Nor in GaN and sensors technology. In fact China's communications tech at least is better.

Indian frigates and ships cannot venture to SCS in wartime and survive. How will some Indian frigates be able to perform those duties with a PLAN at least 5 times the size and far more modern playing in its own front yard.

What makes you think India can walk towards China without being bludgeoned to pieces FAR away. As for meeting at Malacca Strait, how can india go to Malacca strait and impose a block against a military that is over 5 times larger, more advanced and modern on the whole, and an economy that is 5 times greater with far far greater manufacturing and industrial basis with far greater integration with the world economy that depends far more on China than it does on India. Sure okay let's say China sends 1/5 of PLAN only in a war with India just to keep the main force in eastern sea. That means the two navies are roughly equal. Even assuming 1:1 exchange roughly, India will lose basically its entire naval force (and have nothing to defend against Pakistan) in exchange for China's 1/5 of its naval force and at the end, fail to block Malacca strait.

Keep in mind Malacca strait is not that much closer to India and China has weapons that can sink Indian ships from anywhere in China whereas India has no such capability that can realistically be afforded during war. Agni missile is dull in comparison to DF-21 and DF-26 to say nothing of more advanced Chinese ballistic missiles and hypersonic weapons. Agni also in service in far smaller numbers. Every year China builds and adds close to 100 MRBM and IRBM type ballistic missiles. India adds Agni missiles at a much much slower pace and the missile itself is not more advanced in fact quite likely far less advanced. Almost greater gap between Indian and Chinese space program and technology levels.

India's Agni longer ranged missiles that can even hit eastern China are reserved for nuclear in case of nuclear war. They cannot be afforded to be used as conventional missiles just to put a conventional crater at a base or airfield which deals only 1 week max of damage before repairs complete. To keep an airfield out of service is on average 50 missiles per week. Attrition for India is out of the question.

While India only has a few dozen Agni missile (of all types) that can reach eastern China, China has a few hundred DF-11, a few hundred DF-15, a few hundred DF-16, a few hundred DF-21, a few hundred DF-26 and a few hundred DF-17.

DF-15, DF-16 are MaRVed or even HGVed as indicated in 2021 tests of DF-15. DF-17 is HGV. DF-21 and 26 have various forms including MaRV ASBM form. Then there is DF-100 scramjet powered HCM.

Now India cannot hit core China with SRBM. It needs MRBM and IRBM. China can hit core India using SRBM and even rocket artillery like WS series rockets and things like tactical ballistic missiles such as BRE series... some MLRS are 100km + and have guidance that can hit moving armor targets. There are thousands upon thousands of these things. China can position all this stuff near south west Tibet and bombard India top half endlessly while longer ranged and higher tier weapons can bombard Indian key assets endlessly. Far more so than India can to China.

The PLAN has fielded several systems designed to do just this, including the y8 aircraft. However, most of these systems still depend on proximity to Chinese bases for effectiveness.