Chinese stealth fighter jet may use US technology

[Bigoren]

I think some of old man in america is really hard to belive it because its reallly cruel for em,its like a torture to them just like someone in this forum call him as master in every topic.Dont ask me who is this EXPERT,well,you know who is this old man =)

 

[cera]

Surprisingly not only the ostrich knows the trick...

 

[ZhengHe]

I grew up in Hawaii on the island of Oahu. Simply put, you do not know what the hell you are yabbering about regarding the isolationist-quasi-independence movement by the minority few in this state.

yea i'm sure you're "mr. popular" and everyone in Hawaii knows and discuss private matters with you who they see as an invader

 

[S10]

Americans can think whatever they like. We don't really care. Whatever floats their boat.

By the way, I think American F-22 copied the design of ancient Chinese kites.

 

[pandamonkey]

the article is about balkens military officals saying chinese looked at the night hawk, these claims weren't made by americans they just reported the claims made by the balkens military officals. you guys should try readying the article more carefully before blaming america.

---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 PM ----------

sorry for the krapy spelling

 

[Brotherhood]

J-20 stealth fighter jet technology 'innovative' - People's Daily Online January 25, 2011

Chinese defense officials and military analysts insisted Monday that the country's J-20 stealth fighter jet is a result of technological innovation, refuting a report that alleges the aircraft was developed out of technology gleaned from a downed US fighter.

A Croatian admiral who served during the Kosovo War told the AP on Sunday that China formulated the technology for its J-20 jet from a F-117 Nighthawk stealth fighter that was shot down over Serbia in 1999.

"At the time, our intelligence reports told of Chinese agents criss-crossing the region where the F-117 disintegrated, buying up parts of the plane from local farmers," Admiral Davor Domazet-Loso was quoted as saying. "We believe the Chinese used those materials to gain an insight into secret stealth technologies."

An official at the Ministry of National Defense who declined to be named told the Global Times that "it's not the first time foreign media has smeared newly unveiled Chinese military technologies. It's meaningless to respond to such speculations."

China successfully debuted the J-20 in Chengdu, Sichuan Province, earlier this month. The test flight coincided with US Defense Secretary Robert Gates' visit to Beijing, but he was assured the timing was just a coincidence.

Following the successful test flight, speculations and assessments of Beijing's military advancement could be heard throughout the world.

Xu Yongling, one of China's top test pilots, told the Global Times that the J-20 possesses an advanced supersonic cruise ability and powerful air mobility that are technological breakthroughs for the country.

"Different from previous fighters such as the J-7 and J-8, which drew on the merits of aircrafts from other countries, the J-20 is a masterpiece of China's technological innovation," Xu said, comparing the stealth jet to the US Air Force's F-22 Raptor stealth jet and Russia's first stealth fighter, the Sukhoi T-50.

Xu said it would have been impossible for China to glean technology from the US' F-117, whose stealth technology lags far behind fourth-generation fighters and was regarded as "outdated" even at the time when it was reportedly shot down.

And as for the radiation-absorbent, exterior coating technology adopted by the F-117, Xu said it would be hard to copy that technology from the wreckage due to its complicated production process.

Developed in the 1970s and commencing service in 1983, the F-117 Nighthawk was the world's first stealth fighter - nearly invisible to radar.

In March 1999, during NATO's aerial bombing of Serbia in the Kosovo War, a Serbian anti-aircraft missile shot one of the Nighthawks down. An editorial published by the Taiwan-based China Times on Saturday said that the shooting

Parts of the downed F-117 wreckage - including the left wing with the US Air Force insignia, the cockpit canopy, the ejection seat, the pilot's helmet and a radio - are exhibited at Belgrade's aviation museum, according to an AP report.

"I don't know what happened to the rest of the plane," said Zoran Milicevic, deputy director of the museum, according to the AP. "A lot of delegations visited us in the past, including the Chinese, Rus-sians and Americans ... but no one showed any interest in taking any part of the jet."

Wang Yanan, an associate editor in chief at Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times that the F-117 could hardly have inspired the development of the J-20, due to the design differences between the two generations of fighters. He added that it is worthless to take an interest in obsolete technology for developing more state-of-art technologies.

"Despite being dubbed a stealth fighter, the F-117 functioned as a bomber because of its low speed and limited air attacking abilities, while the J-20, more resembling the F-22, is designed to have a powerful air attacking capability with a fast flying speed," Wang said.

Responding to the accusations about China's stealing of new technologies, Wang conceded that, as a forerunner for new technologies, the US can only provide a reference point for other countries but will never leak any details about the technologies, leaving many countries to develop weapons on their own or buy them from another country.

The US has, in recent years, stepped up its offensive against what it calls "Chinese tech spying." The FBI increased its agents assigned to counter alleged Chinese espionage from 150 in 2001 to more than 350 in 2007, USA Today reported.

Separately, Noshir Gowadia, an Indian-born former B-2 bomber engineer convicted of helping China design a stealth cruise missile, was due to be sentenced in court today.

Li Daguang, a Beijing-based military analyst, told the Global Times that such accusations are groundless and originate from envy and wariness of China's technological advancements.

"China not only has the freedom to develop high-end technologies but also the capability to develop them independently," he said.

Zhu Shanshan and Huang Jingjing contributed to this story

Source: Global Times

 

[Dragon Emperor]

F-117 is so low-tech stealth compared to J-20 and F-22. Those claims are not only baseless, but proof of their stupidity. Even if China used reference from US tech to build the J-20, it is from info on F-22 and F--35 that China got from internet hacking. Even then, the materials and shaping of J-20 is all made in China, thus proving that J-20 is, indeed 100% Chinese-made, with some reference to F-22 data on RAM and stealth shaping.

 

[gambit]

F-117 is so low-tech stealth compared to J-20 and F-22. Those claims are not only baseless, but proof of their stupidity. Even if China used reference from US tech to build the J-20, it is from info on F-22 and F--35 that China got from internet hacking. Even then, the materials and shaping of J-20 is all made in China, thus proving that J-20 is, indeed 100% Chinese-made, with some reference to F-22 data on RAM and stealth shaping.

I have advised everyone to wait until more data -- genuine data -- from both Chinese and credible third party sources before making any assumptions in either direction. But consider the embarassment that in the event those data shows the J-20's is not as low radar observable as the F-117...

 

[Akasa]

I have advised everyone to wait until more data -- genuine data -- from both Chinese and credible third party sources before making any assumptions in either direction. But consider the embarassment that in the event those data shows the J-20's is not as low radar observable as the F-117...

In that case it would still outperform the F-35. Now THAT would be an embarrassment for the USAF (which, after all, has placed more emphasis on the F-35 than the F-22).

 

[gambit]

In that case it would still outperform the F-35. Now THAT would be an embarrassment for the USAF (which, after all, has placed more emphasis on the F-35 than the F-22).

You must be dreaming IF the J-20 is not as low radar observable as the F-117. The F-117 and F-22 usually fly with radar enhancers whenever either are for public display. Would we see the same for the J-20 later? There is a way to estimate a body's unenhanced RCS based upon the enhanced value and some pictures. If the J-20 fly for public display and if we can detect its enhanced RCS value and if the estimated unenhanced RCS is not within a certain statistical range, its radar observability will be anything but low.

 

[Obambam]

You must be dreaming IF the J-20 is not as low radar observable as the F-117. The F-117 and F-22 usually fly with radar enhancers whenever either are for public display. Would we see the same for the J-20 later? There is a way to estimate a body's unenhanced RCS based upon the enhanced value and some pictures. If the J-20 fly for public display and if we can detect its enhanced RCS value and if the estimated unenhanced RCS is not within a certain statistical range, its radar observability will be anything but low.

The F-22 and F-117 has to fly with enhancers to make them as big as some of the gen 4 fighters on radar because they cannot have stealth fighters roaming around in sensitive airspace. Furthermore, the local ATC would demand to know who is up on their airspace.

If there is a way to estimate a body's unenhanced RCS then there must be a way to estimate the RCS of fighters such as the F-22 and the F-117, no doubt about that. However the J-20 is still being modified and what the public saw was only a workable prototype, not an end product. There are no official or credable values to used to predict its signitures or what it's capable of.

What China did was to let the world know that they are not behind on stealth technology and J-20 sent out a strong message. What happens from now on until deployment will most likely happen behind closed doors. I doubt there is a need for them to fly this thing for publicity sake anymore.

 

[gambit]

The F-22 and F-117 has to fly with enhancers to make them as big as some of the gen 4 fighters on radar because they cannot have stealth fighters roaming around in sensitive airspace. Furthermore, the local ATC would demand to know who is up on their airspace.

No, the F-117 and F-22 routinely fly with enhancers for two equally important parallel reasons:

- To accommodate air traffic controllers because one of the goals of air traffic control is to detect aircrafts from as far away as possible.

- To hide their true RCS values.

If there is a way to estimate a body's unenhanced RCS then there must be a way to estimate the RCS of fighters such as the F-22 and the F-117, no doubt about that. However the J-20 is still being modified and what the public saw was only a workable prototype, not an end product. There are no official or credable values to used to predict its signitures or what it's capable of.

What China did was to let the world know that they are not behind on stealth technology and J-20 sent out a strong message. What happens from now on until deployment will most likely happen behind closed doors. I doubt there is a need for them to fly this thing for publicity sake anymore.

There is a contradiction here. If the J-20 is an unfinished product, and we must acknowledged that fact, then there is no reason to call it 'stealthy' based upon appearance alone. I said it before and I will say it again: If looks could kill, then the F-117 would have been killed off when it was a figuratively a paper airplane. So until we know more about the J-20 from the radar's perspective, there is no legitimate reason to compare it even against the F-117.

 

[webber]

pretending expert here

don't talk to the Vietnamese

he's a joke

 

[Obambam]

No, the F-117 and F-22 routinely fly with enhancers for two equally important parallel reasons:

- To accommodate air traffic controllers because one of the goals of air traffic control is to detect aircrafts from as far away as possible.

- To hide their true RCS values.

Those were my points exactly.

There is a contradiction here. If the J-20 is an unfinished product, and we must acknowledged that fact, then there is no reason to call it 'stealthy' based upon appearance alone. I said it before and I will say it again: If looks could kill, then the F-117 would have been killed off when it was a figuratively a paper airplane. So until we know more about the J-20 from the radar's perspective, there is no legitimate reason to compare it even against the F-117.

Firstly Chinese military officials never said it was stealthy based upon the airframe alone, it came from analysts and fan boys from around the world. As of now it is still only a prototype, therefore it makes your comments and comparisons of it's estimated or unestimated RCS totally irrelevant.
Fact is no one knows for sure what technologies will be going inside it, what materials the fighter will consists of, the carry capacity of payload, what the final engines are capable of, its RCS etc etc.
Its potentials are up for debate, but to reference the J-20? It's too early for that as it is still undergoing modifications as we speak.

 

[gambit]

Those were my points exactly.

No...You said something about 'sensitive' airspace. Commercial civilian airspace, even territorial, are not 'sensitive'.

Firstly Chinese military officials never said it was stealthy based upon the airframe alone,...

I do not recall ME referencing any Chinese official. But do correct me as I have made many comments about this subject.

...it came from analysts and fan boys from around the world.

Irrelevant its source. Relevant is who here believes them.

As of now it is still only a prototype, therefore it makes your comments and comparisons of it's estimated or unestimated RCS totally irrelevant.

Wrong...My cautions regarding jumping to conclusions are very relevant.

Fact is no one knows for sure what technologies will be going inside it, what materials the fighter will consists of, the carry capacity of payload, what the final engines are capable of, its RCS etc etc.

Those were the essence of my caution.

Its potentials are up for debate, but to reference the J-20? It's too early for that as it is still undergoing modifications as we speak.

You might want to tell that to your fellow Chinese members here. But good luck with that...