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Chinese scientists urged to develop new thorium nuclear reactors by 2024

Can someone ban this clown.

This dude has an obsession with China. Every China thread this guy has to poke his nose and troll.

@Aeronaut



Biggest cause of air pollution is:
1) the low fuel quality of petrol and diesel.
2) dirty coal burning for industrial use.

It's not the amount of cars. America has far more cars than China yet they don't have the air pollution like China does. American petrol and diesel has very high standard quality.

American energy is 40% oil, 25% gas, only 25% coal.

Erm, US is the second largest pollution producing country in the world. LA and Chicago has smog problem as well. It is just that Beijing gets more coverage during winter time because the weather pattern and the fact it is surrounded on three sides by mountain. Also, Beijing is also a Chinese city, thus western medias like to harp on it. There is a reason why both US and China didn't sign the Kyoto accord.

and when you will see everyone driving electric vehicle? 2050? until then people will probably rather switch to gas powered vehicles because there is plenty of natural gas in the world it can hold until 2200

Actually, 2020 is more like the number. Electric buses and vehicles has already begin to appear in both US and China and judging from researches demonstrated by 2013 Vancouver IEEE PES conference, it will be within the decade or maximum two decades.
 
Very pleasent development. Pakistan ought to join hands with China in this area of research.
 
Chinese going for broke on thorium nuclear power, and good luck to them

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard Energy Last updated: March 19th, 2014

The nuclear race is on. China is upping the ante dramatically on thorium nuclear energy. Scientists in Shanghai have been told to accelerate plans (sorry for the pun) to build the first fully-functioning thorium reactor within ten years, instead of 25 years as originally planned.

“This is definitely a race. China faces fierce competition from overseas and to get there first will not be an easy task”,” says Professor Li Zhong, a leader of the programme. He said researchers are working under “warlike” pressure to deliver.

Good for them. They may do the world a big favour. They may even help to close the era of fossil fuel hegemony, and with it close the rentier petro-gas regimes that have such trouble adapting to rational modern behaviour. The West risks being left behind, still relying on the old uranium reactor technology that was originally designed for US submarines in the 1950s.

The excellent South China Morning Post trumpeted the story this morning on the front page of its website.

As readers know, I have long been a fan of thorium (so is my DT economics colleague Szu Chan). It promises to be safer, cleaner, and ultimately cheaper than uranium. It is much harder to use in nuclear weapons, and therefore limits the proliferation risk.

There are ample supplies of the radioactive mineral. It is scattered across Britain. The Americans have buried tonnes of it, a hazardous by-product of rare earth metal mining.

As I reported in January 2013, China’s thorium project was launched as a high priority by princeling Jiang Mianheng, son of former leader Jiang Zemin. He estimates that China has enough thorium to power its electricity needs for “20,000 years”.

The project began with a start-up budget of $350m and the recruitment of 140 PhD scientists at the Shanghai Institute of Nuclear and Applied Physics. It then had plans to reach 750 staff by 2015, but this already looks far too conservative.
The Chinese appear to be opting for a molten salt reactor – or a liquid fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR) — a notion first proposed by the US nuclear doyen Alvin Weinberg and arguably best adapted for thorium.

This in entirely different from thorium efforts in the West that rely on light water technology used in uranium reactors. The LFTR has its own problems, not least corrosion caused by the fluoride.

“We are still in the dark about the physical and chemical nature of thorium in many ways. There are so many problems to deal with but so little time,” said Prof Li.

The great hope for thorium is that it could restore faith in the safety of nuclear power after the Fukushima disaster. It can be done on a much smaller scale, at atmospheric pressure, without the need for the vast structures than encase uranium reactors. You could have micro LFTRs for each steel mill or a small town, hidden away, almost invisible.

The British have an (underfunded) research project – ThorEA – anchored at Huddersfield University under Professor Robert Cywinksi. He says the technology is intrinsically safer since the metal must be bombarded with neutrons to drive the process. “There is no chain reaction. Fission dies the moment you switch off the proton beam,” he told me.
Thorium may at least do for nuclear power what shale fracking has done for natural gas, but on a bigger scale, for much longer, and with near zero carbon dioxide emissions.

China’s thorium drive is galling for the Americans. They have dropped the ball. As I reported last year, the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee actually built a molten salt thorium reactor in the 1960s. It was shelved by the Nixon Administration. The Pentagon needed plutonium residue from uranium to for nuclear bombs. The imperatives of the Cold War prevailed.

The thorium blueprints gathered dust in the archives until retrieved and published by former Nasa engineer Kirk Sorensen. The US largely ignored him: China did not.

Mr Jiang visited the Oak Ridge labs and obtained the designs – entirely legitimately – after reading an article in the American Scientist extolling thorium. His team concluded that a molten salt reactor may be the answer China’s prayers. It is playing out just as he hoped.

The Chinese are currently building 28 standard reactors – by far the biggest nuclear push in the world – and working on several research and development fronts at once. This is to break what it calls a “scary” dependence on imported fuel, but also to fight pollution.

The Hefei Institute of Physical Science in Anhui has just finished building the world’s largest experimental platform for an accelerator reactor that burns nuclear fuel with a powerful “particle gun”.

Professor Gu Zhongmao from the China Institute of Atomic Energy cautioned against too much exuberance on so-called fourth-generation reactors. “These projects are beautiful to scientists, but nightmarish to engineers,” he told the SCMP.

Chinese going for broke on thorium nuclear power, and good luck to them – Telegraph Blogs
 
Good for China and its environment. LFTR's are by far the most efficient and safe concept for thorium reactors. Save for any desi-shtyle delay I believe the Chinese would soon be leading in the thorium energy department(unless the US somehow wakes up, bans Greenpeace, deports the anti-nukes and goes for Gen-IV reactors on full throttle immediately).
 
Chinese going for broke on thorium nuclear power, and good luck to them

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard Energy Last updated: March 19th, 2014

The nuclear race is on. China is upping the ante dramatically on thorium nuclear energy. Scientists in Shanghai have been told to accelerate plans (sorry for the pun) to build the first fully-functioning thorium reactor within ten years, instead of 25 years as originally planned.

“This is definitely a race. China faces fierce competition from overseas and to get there first will not be an easy task”,” says Professor Li Zhong, a leader of the programme. He said researchers are working under “warlike” pressure to deliver.

Good for them. They may do the world a big favour. They may even help to close the era of fossil fuel hegemony, and with it close the rentier petro-gas regimes that have such trouble adapting to rational modern behaviour. The West risks being left behind, still relying on the old uranium reactor technology that was originally designed for US submarines in the 1950s.

The excellent South China Morning Post trumpeted the story this morning on the front page of its website.

As readers know, I have long been a fan of thorium (so is my DT economics colleague Szu Chan). It promises to be safer, cleaner, and ultimately cheaper than uranium. It is much harder to use in nuclear weapons, and therefore limits the proliferation risk.

There are ample supplies of the radioactive mineral. It is scattered across Britain. The Americans have buried tonnes of it, a hazardous by-product of rare earth metal mining.

As I reported in January 2013, China’s thorium project was launched as a high priority by princeling Jiang Mianheng, son of former leader Jiang Zemin. He estimates that China has enough thorium to power its electricity needs for “20,000 years”.

The project began with a start-up budget of $350m and the recruitment of 140 PhD scientists at the Shanghai Institute of Nuclear and Applied Physics. It then had plans to reach 750 staff by 2015, but this already looks far too conservative.
The Chinese appear to be opting for a molten salt reactor – or a liquid fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR) — a notion first proposed by the US nuclear doyen Alvin Weinberg and arguably best adapted for thorium.

This in entirely different from thorium efforts in the West that rely on light water technology used in uranium reactors. The LFTR has its own problems, not least corrosion caused by the fluoride.

“We are still in the dark about the physical and chemical nature of thorium in many ways. There are so many problems to deal with but so little time,” said Prof Li.

The great hope for thorium is that it could restore faith in the safety of nuclear power after the Fukushima disaster. It can be done on a much smaller scale, at atmospheric pressure, without the need for the vast structures than encase uranium reactors. You could have micro LFTRs for each steel mill or a small town, hidden away, almost invisible.

The British have an (underfunded) research project – ThorEA – anchored at Huddersfield University under Professor Robert Cywinksi. He says the technology is intrinsically safer since the metal must be bombarded with neutrons to drive the process. “There is no chain reaction. Fission dies the moment you switch off the proton beam,” he told me.
Thorium may at least do for nuclear power what shale fracking has done for natural gas, but on a bigger scale, for much longer, and with near zero carbon dioxide emissions.

China’s thorium drive is galling for the Americans. They have dropped the ball. As I reported last year, the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee actually built a molten salt thorium reactor in the 1960s. It was shelved by the Nixon Administration. The Pentagon needed plutonium residue from uranium to for nuclear bombs. The imperatives of the Cold War prevailed.

The thorium blueprints gathered dust in the archives until retrieved and published by former Nasa engineer Kirk Sorensen. The US largely ignored him: China did not.

Mr Jiang visited the Oak Ridge labs and obtained the designs – entirely legitimately – after reading an article in the American Scientist extolling thorium. His team concluded that a molten salt reactor may be the answer China’s prayers. It is playing out just as he hoped.

The Chinese are currently building 28 standard reactors – by far the biggest nuclear push in the world – and working on several research and development fronts at once. This is to break what it calls a “scary” dependence on imported fuel, but also to fight pollution.

The Hefei Institute of Physical Science in Anhui has just finished building the world’s largest experimental platform for an accelerator reactor that burns nuclear fuel with a powerful “particle gun”.

Professor Gu Zhongmao from the China Institute of Atomic Energy cautioned against too much exuberance on so-called fourth-generation reactors. “These projects are beautiful to scientists, but nightmarish to engineers,” he told the SCMP.

Chinese going for broke on thorium nuclear power, and good luck to them – Telegraph Blogs


those indians can brag all they want, but I have a feeling China will put it to commercial use before those talkers. The only problem i have with thorium is that it takes away plutonium residue that can be used to make our nukes.

until 2024 i dont want to know how china will look like, china can fix their smog problem easily if they start to buy russian gas

it's not going to be bad. At the mean time there are many things a country can do to combat pollution.

1. Rely less on cars. China is building more HSR linking all parts of the country
2. build more nuclear power plants
3. Burn less coal which is the biggest cause of pollution in china.
 
hey u guys can learn from us in designing thorium reactors ? what say india - china bros ? :cheers:
 
A team of scientists in Shanghai had originally been given 25 years to try to develop the world’s first nuclear plant using the radioactive element thorium as fuel rather than uranium, but they have now been told they have 10, the researchers said.
This is indeed a challenge. Rather than buying or copying Western designs that are in design or development - stuff where the pilot projects, suitable for scale-up, will be completed in the next 15 years - the Chinese scientists, it seems, are being ordered to develop much of the stuff themselves with minimal copying from the West. A whole different mentality is called for here, not just from the scientists but from management. It will be interesting to see how it all develops.
 
problem with electric cars is price of electricity.
unless fusion becomes available forget about electric car.

it was said when nuclear reacttor first came that electricty will become to cheap to measure or bill. well that didnt happened
unless that happens cars to be run on electricity is unlikley
 
first nuclear plant using the radioactive element thorium as fuel rather than uranium

No,it isn't

Bullshit - World's first Thorium Reactor was build it the US in the late 60s but it was shut down by the Nixon administration while its chief scientist Dr. Alvin Martin Weinberg was fired. India has a habit of claiming the 'world firsts' to satisfy its misplaced nationalism.

It was a 7MWt Molten Salt reactor,Ours is a 300 MWe Heavy water Reactor.
 
It was a 7MWt Molten Salt reactor,Ours is a 300 MWe Heavy water Reactor.

It still was World's First Thorium Reactor. There are 8 other countries with similar research projects on Thorium reactors.
 
It still was World's First Thorium Reactor. There are 8 other countries with similar research projects on Thorium reactors.

Ours is worlds first mainly thorium reactor- next-generation nuclear reactor that will burn thorium as its fuel ore..We have a lead ,AHWR project is under site selection.
 
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Don't worry china, we will sell you our Thorium reactors.

Your thorium reactor?

Where?

In the figment of your imagination?

Pls point me to an Indian designed and constructed thorium reactor in commercial operation。

Don't give me the design crap。We need the real thing that is able to produce industrial-scale electricity。Now!

Got it?Thanks。:cheers:

No,it isn't



It was a 7MWt Molten Salt reactor,Ours is a 300 MWe Heavy water Reactor.

We need a fully-functioning commercial-scale MSR by 2023,not a prototype of HWR type。
 
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Your thorium reactor?

Where?

In the figment of your imagination?

Pls point me to an Indian designed and constructed thorium reactor in commercial operation。

Don't give me the design crap。We need the real thing that is able to produce industrial-scale electricity。Now!

Got it?Thanks。:cheers:



We need a fully-functioning commercial-scale MSR by 2023,not a prototype of HWR type。

Usual BS that was debunked by Indian members many times before.India has already designed Thorium based AHWR,and is now in process of site selection.

Your plan was to build a tiny 2 MW plant using liquid fluoride fuel by the end of the decade, before scaling up to commercially viable size over the 2020s. Y

The proposed completion date for a test 2 MW pebble-bed solid thorium and molten salt cooled reactor has been delayed from 2015 to 2017.
 
It still was World's First Thorium Reactor. There are 8 other countries with similar research projects on Thorium reactors.

India one is first commercial thorium reactor. US design was not a commercial one, but first lab prototype.

World’s First Thorium Reactor Designed | IThEo_Org

India’s forward-thinking attitude has established the country as the leader in thorium reactor development. But can India put its long-term plan into reality? Now, their AHWR design is finished, taking them one big step forward.
The reactor is equipped with
AHWR%20design.png
passive shutdown systems, core heat removal through natural circulation, emergency core coolant system (ECCS) and gravity-driven water pool (GDWP), a large tank of borated water on top of the primary containment of vessel. It can operate for 120 days without operator - that’s 4 months without anyone controlling it. And did we mention the design life: this reactor will last some 100 years.

The plan is to have a 300MW prototype in operation by 2016 and then expand thereafter. By 2050, thorium should meet 30% of India’s electricity demand.

The completion of the AHWR design is an important step towards reducing the import of fossil fuels and combat climate change.

To learn more about India’s Thorium Energy Program, have a look at their three presentations from ThEC13 in Geneva below, which contain a wealth of information (click on the title to see the slides as you watch the video):


Towards Sustainable Secure and Safe Energy Future Leveraging Opportunities with Thorium by Anil Kakodkar, BARC, India



Recycling Challenges of Thorium-based Fuels by PK Wattal, BARC, India



Overview of the Thorium Programme in India by Pallippattu Krishnan Vijayan, BARC, India
 
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