Chinese PM Visits Bangladesh

[z9-ec]

Mate why should one accept your interpretations when those are emerging from your whims and fancies.

Yes, the world accepts China is an emerging power and the same world accepts that India is an emering power, when was the last time you did not see them clubbed together.

It is simply absurd to compare China with India.

Even Japan has to rely upon China to avoid recession. Is India better than Japan?

Come on.. Grow up.. Seriously..

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

And US didn't not support us in 1971, yes the 6th fleet was somewhere in the Indian Ocean and no way it would have docked in Karachi or headed for Bay of Bengal,

Actually it was the 7 th fleet and they were heading towards Dakha in the pretext of evacuvating American expats. However they backed off after the Soviets snet their nuclear Submarines under the command of Gorshkov.

 

[z9-ec]

Salim, rather than going off topic please discuss on the current discussion and if you have no comments sit back and relax.

Enjoy the show.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

t is simply absurd to compare China with India.

Even Japan has to rely upon China to avoid recession. Is India better than Japan?

What are you trying to imply mate , what were Japs doning before Chinas economic boom , again I repeat we are a good decade back as far as growth is concerned , and compared to Chinas relative position a few years ago at this point of timeframe we are doing better than them.

Come on.. Grow up.. Seriously..

Why dont you do us a favour , why dont ou practise what you preach

 

[z9-ec]

=Why dont you do us a favour , why dont ou practise what you preach

I was not the one comparing India with China.

Why compare now? if you are as you say a decade behind China.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Salim, rather than going off topic please discuss on the current discussion and if you have no comments sit back and relax.

Enjoy the show

Offtopic? hmm everytime someone farts from China you pull us into the debate, I mean why does Chinese premiers visit to a soverign nation involve India in arguments or will suddenly all those nations that had visitis from Pakistani premiers and Chinese spell doom for India. It better stick on to the topic rather then practising wet dreams and fancies and accusing other of going off topic. Before accusing him did you care to read your posts in this thread?

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Why compare now? if you are as you say a decade behind China.

Hmmm eeerr .. I think you need to go through your posts.

 

[Azadi]

I am totally with you!

Yet I would like to wonder as to why China was of no use to Pakistan when she needed her most - when Pakistan was in a war with India!!

I sure think that a friend in need is a friend in indeed!

Sick and stones may break my bones, but words cannot harm me!!

It broke no bones of India, bit it did nothing to help Pakistan!

Hon Mr Salim,

China borders both India and Pakistan, direct support to Pakistan in time of war will be seen as act of war by Indian Think Tank resulting in a tri national conflict. China has never supported military conflicts in Sub Continent nor will she ever do that in future. Thats the difference between China and other World Powers I assume.

China didn't fully distance herself either, we got tanks and mig's from her own operational services, KKH is a direct result of '65 and '71 wars with India. We both felt the urge to have land links and we both delivered. When US retrieved subs, frigates and other material after '71 impasse China again filled the gap and supplied hardware with full operational status and logistics.

What role did Pakistan play in '62 conflics? We didn't help China either.

 

[z9-ec]

Hmmm eeerr .. I think you need to go through your posts.

My point was, Silent started off comparing India with China which is absurd to say the least.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

My point was, Silent started off comparing India with China which is absurd to say the least.

He talked about Chinese aid to rouge regimes and its effect on BD in case they choose to go towards Chinese camp, I think it was perfectly within the realms of the thread, you could have countred it effectively. Instead you choose to bring in economic comparisons which were no way related.

PS: I dont completely agree with what Stealth mentioned

 

[z9-ec]

He talked about Chinese aid to rouge regimes and its effect on BD in case they choose to go towards Chinese camp, I think it was perfectly within the realms of the thread, you could have countred it effectively. Instead you choose to bring in economic comparisons which were no way related.

PS: I dont completely agree with what Stealth mentioned

Indeed, my first post in this thread explains what I meant.

The two cannot be compared/matched in todays world.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

The two cannot be compared

Yup different form of governance, different threat perceptions and different priorities.

/matched in todays world.

Again each have their prioritie and way towards growth, why should we match in the first place when we have totally differnt priorities and ambitions in the first place, both are strong in what they are good at and both have weakness, so it is naive to compare both.

I would accept your arguments in case you could point out the economic tangibles of having relationship with China vis a vi India in BD context , instead you start of comparing both the economies which is comparing apples and oranges

 

[Neo]

Good choice of words I'd say, the friendship is indeed symbiotic and has proven to be benefecial to both sides in many fields. Who do you think helped Nixon to open bridge with China? How has Pakistan been able to pump $22 billion in her nuclear programme despite being hit severly by on and off US imposed embargoes? China requires as less support from us on Tibet as we do in Kashmir, both are there to stay its waste of time and energy.

Your definition of friendship based on military and political support whereas what I'm trying to say is what China and Pakistan have is unparalleled, it goes way beyond political support.

And US didn't not support us in 1971, yes the 6th fleet was somewhere in the Indian Ocean and no way it would have docked in Karachi or headed for Bay of Bengal, SEATO and CENTO were both signed to curb Russian influence in Asia, neither supported Pakistan's case incase threat came from any other country but Russia.
So US was not obliged to help us, neither did they try to prevent war from escalating.

But thats off topic.

Well said Azadi, nice post!

 

[gpit]

I find it most embarrassing when I see Pakistanis hanging on to China's coat tails to find their place in the sun.

Pakistan may not be the most progressive country in the world, but given Neo's statistics, it does show that inspite of all odds, Musharraf put Pakistan on the world map!

That is what is Pakistan's strength and not hanging on to someone's coattails to prove anything.

I would be the first one to object if some Indian hangs on to the US' coattails to say how great she is.

India is great in its own rights!

If she is not, she better pull up her socks and not hang on to someone else!!

Pathetic!!

I think Pakistanis are insulting themselves!

Instead, the most pathetic, self-embarrassing and self-insulting person is the one whose only capability is ignorant of facts and can only roll sour-grape.

Pakistan stood on its own feet when facing up to a much stronger, aggressive military from the east. China never sent a single soldier on Pakistan soil to fight, as that is against Chinese military doctrine.

High quality and braveness of Pakistani soldiers have earned high praise from then Chinese premier Zhou Enlai, a well known statesman and a military genius.

If any one wants to enrich his/her knowledge, please the declassified file from US Department of State. (1969-1972).

Those whose only interest is to distort facts through weird illusion are advised not to read the file to avoid being disillusioned.

 

[gpit]

Some rumors about China’s stance in 71 conflicts need to be clarified.

1) Chinese military doctrine prevents it from sending troops abroad, until Chinese territorial is under direct threat of hostile forces, and/or also under the request of the neighboring friendly country. This is exemplified in Korea war, as well as in 62 Sino-India conflicts and Viet Nam conflicts. In latter two cases, only “direct threat” applies.

2) Then Chinese premier Zhou Enlai commented to Nixon and Kissinger that if India’s military involved in then East Pakistan’s conflicts, China “will not sit still.” (see the declassified document of US Department of State). Americans, by their own, interpreted this as China will send troops. (As a matter of fact, Nixon suggested China sending troops and US would support militarily as well. Also see the same file) This is a deadly wrong conjecture. Some other guesses such as China is going to parachute troops in BD is even more ridiculous. China was then in a chaos, and PLA functioned as a stabilizing factor in China. The main reason that China would not send troops in BD, however, is that it is a complete violation of Chinese military doctrine: Chinese territory was not threatened by BD conflicts. But, the Chinese did not sit still, it amassed troops along Sino-India board, and annihilated couple of Indian military posts established after Chinese troops withdrawal to their own territory in 62. China also issued an ultimatum-like waning to India. What China worried gravely at that chaotic time was that India had amassed its forces along West Pakistan board, and might well invade West Pakistan, and that had to be stopped. And it was stopped, as India obviously felt incompetent to fight in two fronts.

In conclusion, it is very ridiculous to imagine that China would send troops to BD, but it is true that China exerted huge pressure on Sino-India board to force India to abandon any attempt/plan to invade westward and to relieve pressure on West Pakistan