Chinese PLA Colonel: Doklam was a humiliating defeat for China, PRC caved in to Indian pressure

[wiseone2]

Nobody wants war but if India didn't leave it will be the biggest strategic mistake. I am saying this neutrally, Modi miscalculated Chinese reactions, he was thinking this was another kabaddi game.

at Doklam yes
Kargil was a war

 

[Han Patriot]

at Doklam yes
Kargil was a war

Well, I think I don't want to argue anymore. I have presented official facts, it's up to you to analyze it. Nothing to hide.

 

[war&peace]

Because China couldn't move a dhela since June there.

It is Dokhlam not Dhela...Do you have another conflict with China in Dhela? BTW where is it located?

 

[Suriya]

China was wounded, that's why its cries on Doklam were shrill : Kanwal Sibal

 

[Han Patriot]

Was that a joke? If I had to believe your communist party, they were not to talk to India at all throughout the doklam stand off.They are just embarrassed to tell that to your people. Lolz

Actually it's in English and it's not only for domestic consumption, it was announced officially to the world. You can also read your ambiguous muted MEA response as comparison and make your own conclusions.

Can you tell me what talks happened? Doval tried to talk, he was given the same stand withdraw first without any negotiations and after that China escalated mobilization. Also take note that MEA used the term 'diplomatic effort', this could mean sending peaceful messages to China, but does not involve negotiations. it takes two to negotiate, not when only one parties makes noise.

 

[nair]

1) India withdrew unilaterally. Statement was vague using the word 'disengagement'.

Statements from all the three parties were vague and I guess that was the reason for this resolution.... and there is a personal relationship between modi mood and xi .. .

2) China is still in Doklam and will continue to patrol and be stationed in Doklam. You essentially gave

China was in doklam even before and they continue to remain there.... The reason for the stand off was not the patrolling... but road construction.. ..Everyone knows why India jumped in to this... Not only because of the agreement with Bhutan but the strategic importance of this area.... Militarization is going to happen for sure...and it will not be one sided.... Eventually we have added one more prob to each others basket...

3) Road construction will continue. My bet is it will start after winter since Modi is going to Beijing, we need to give him face

I do not know about this.... If China think that this is indeed an action which is needed then they might.... But not sure what would the scenario then.... and what will be Indian response.... This is an hypothetical scenario today.... But I agree road can be made... Risk no one knows....

If there is regular engagement between the nation's... There there are chances that both of ire this thorn and focus on good points we have with us..... But there will be wulfs trying to milk our differences....some from West and some in india's west....

 

[kaykay]

Kay Kay, just ne impartial, read your MEA statements and MOFA statements. I see no point being too blind due to nationalism. If China was the losing party, I would have accepted it, let them learn the lesson. But clearly, this was the biggest strategic blunder. You just gave China excuse to militarize Doklam, instead of the occasional patrol, China is now stationed in Doklam.

Well temporary Chinese posts are there in doklam plateau since 1980s as far as I know. While India also maintains a post there and Bhutanese army maintains 2 posts so far....Its not new. This is precisely what we call status quo there....all parties have been involved in patrolling and stuff but no permanent structure would be allowed to change status quo. I am also happy that India will now maintain more troops according to Chinese count there.

 

[Beast]

Chinese propaganda communist party is too embarrassed to accept their defeat....lolz
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...dia-military-standoff/?utm_term=.357e5b245557

Washingtonpost? They will post stupid article like American highspeed train is better than China one or China economy is smaller than Japan in 2017.

Fancy you resort to claim credibility from such trash website.

 

[slapshot]

Well, nobody wants war, had Indian chose to remain in Doklam, you can be sure war will be the next outcome. I believe the current solution is alright, they withdrew unilaterally and unconditionally as instructed. This incident just gave China excuse to militarize Doklam, troops are now being stationed there instead of just patrolling.

There is no direct proof or credible source about resuming road work which initiated the issue in first place. A peaceful solution is definitely better but each party should clearly explain their gains in settlement. If by any means China backed off from their road construction then its definitely a win for India.

 

[nair]

I did not make this up. I hope you are impartial and analyze this

I am not a war fan... or a war monger.... And I try to look things impartially... but as a patriot some time my posts will have certain amount of bias...

 

[Han Patriot]

Statements from all the three parties were vague and I guess that was the reason for this resolution.... and there is a personal relationship between modi mood and xi .. .

What do you mean vague from both parties. China said it directly:


Q: Could you tell us that how many Chinese soldiers are still deployed at the Dong Lang area?

A: This is a very specific question. What I can tell you is that The Chinese border troops continue with their patrols and stationing in the Dong Lang area. China will adjust and deploy its military resources in accordance with the need of guarding the border and the situation on the ground.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-08/29/c_136565670.htm

We will make an overall assessment of the weather conditions and all related factors, and according to the actual circumstances complete construction plans for the Dong Lang (Doklam) area," spokesperson Hua Chunying told a daily news briefing.

Straight to the point.

1) They are still patrolling and stationed at Doklam.
2) They will continue construction.

My bet is it will be after winter since Modi is visiting in September, somewhere in Feb when the issues dies down and Modi does not get any media attacks if we resume.

Compare this with the 'disengagement' from MEA.

China was in doklam even before and they continue to remain there.... The reason for the stand off was not the patrolling... but road construction.. ..Everyone knows why India jumped in to this... Not only because of the agreement with Bhutan but the strategic importance of this area.... Militarization is going to happen for sure...and it will not be one sided.... Eventually we have added one more prob to each others basket...

I agree, we were already patrolling in Bhutan, but now we are stationed there due to this incident. You practically gave us the reason for militarizing Doklam, Before this incident, we would still take into considerations Indian protest but you did not send any diplomatic protest, you directly send in troops. We informed you out of good will on our construction works, instead of protesting diplomatically, you chose to send in troops. Is this peaceful? That too in an area not disputed with you. When you retreated, it sent the wrong message to Bhutan, you are abandoning them. I can bet after this Bhutan will try to normalize relations with China, they are already hinting at this. Years ago, China was willing to exchange two disputed areas in the north for strategic Doklam.

I do not know about this.... If China think that this is indeed an action which is needed then they might.... But not sure what would the scenario then.... and what will be Indian response.... This is an hypothetical scenario today.... But I agree road can be made... Risk no one knows....

If there is an engagement

I am sure India will militarize and send in more troops in response, as long as its on their side of the border. No issues.

 

[dray / Rain Man]

I hope you are viewing this neutrally. If you take away all the Indian media noise and read both official responses, these are the facts:

1) India withdrew unilaterally. Statement was vague using the word 'disengagement'.
2) China is still in Doklam and will continue to patrol and be stationed in Doklam. You essentially gave China excuse to militarize Doklam.
3) Road construction will continue. My bet is it will start after winter since Modi is going to Beijing, we need to give him face.

I did not make this up. I hope you are impartial and analyze this.


They are just publishing whatever view from around the world, be it Indian or Chinese, tomorrow they will publish a different opinion. This is a open news network, any 'expert' can give their opinion. Facts are from official statements. That's why I only use MEA or MOFA statements. Remember previously Indian media claimed China reduced their troops to 40 soldiers, the truth was India was the one reducing troops.


Well, nobody wants war, had Indian chose to remain in Doklam, you can be sure war will be the next outcome. I believe the current solution is alright, they withdrew unilaterally and unconditionally as instructed. This incident just gave China excuse to militarize Doklam, troops are now being stationed there instead of just patrolling.

1. China and Bhutan both were patrolling the area for years.

2. China tried to push around a small country like Bhutan by changing the ground positions there by building a road.

3. India moved in to honor its friendship treaty with Bhutan and made China stop the road construction with immediate effect, and asked China to withdraw its road construction equipment, restoring status quo.

4. A military stand-off begins with hourly threats of war from China, India didn't budge from its demand, nor paid any attention to constant Chinese threats.

5. After 70 days China meekly withdraw all the road construction equipment first, followed by a mutual military deescalation, thus restoring status quo.

6. China issued face saving statements like "we will patrol the area" (sure, that's restoring status quo), and "will follow our infrastructure plan based on weather, ground situation, necessary changes, etc. etc. etc." with no specific timeline (sure, saving face is important).

7. On the ground, India has stopped Chinese illegal road construction, mutually deescalated the situation as China complied with Indian demands, and restored status quo.

Now people should learn to accept the reality, that Chinese strength is in projecting threats with shrill words, and not in its ability to follow up with real action on the ground.
Btw, Pakistan should know it better when China just sat on the fence and watched in 1965, 1971, 1987, & 1999.

 

[Han Patriot]

I am not a war fan... or a war monger.... And I try to look things impartially... but as a patriot some time my posts will have certain amount of bias...

Hmm.. I am trying not too but some Indian members here like BALA is making this difficult. I am happy this is over.

There is no direct proof or credible source about resuming road work which initiated the issue in first place. A peaceful solution is definitely better but each party should clearly explain their gains in settlement. If by any means China backed off from their road construction then its definitely a win for India.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-08/29/c_136565670.htm

We will make an overall assessment of the weather conditions and all related factors, and according to the actual circumstances complete construction plans for the Dong Lang (Doklam) area," spokesperson Hua Chunying told a daily news briefing.

Most likely resuming in February since Modi is vising in September and Oct is winter. After the issue dies down and Modi won't face media attacks, it will start.

 

[sinait]

Lessons learned in tense China-India border row but it will cast a long shadow, analysts say
With the BRICS summit next week and growing economic cooperation at stake, both sides had good reason to end the stand-off

Shi Jiangtao / Kristin Huang
UPDATED : Wednesday, 30 Aug 2017, 1:33PM

“China understands the importance of creating a favourable atmosphere for the success of the summit and the all-important party congress,” said Wang Dehua, head of South Asia studies at the Shanghai Institute for International Studies.

China has pulled out all the stops with meticulous preparations for the summit and Beijing did not want it overshadowed by the border row, according to Chinese experts.

“The event – where Chinese President Xi Jinping and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi are supposed to meet – has offered a way out of this unexpectedly tense stand-off, although there are different interpretations as to which side actually compromised more,” said Yue Gang, a retired colonel in the PLA’s General Staff Department.

Harsh Pant, a professor of international relations at King’s College London, also said the pull-out of Indian troops was “absolutely” in response to the upcoming BRICS summit.

“China needed this to be resolved [ahead of BRICS],” he said by phone from New Delhi. “If any country was under pressure, it was China, not India. There was no reason for India to do anything else apart from holding on and digging in at the border, as India was doing.”

But Wang noted that embattled Indian leader Modi was also keen to make the summit a success because it was a key international platform for India’s growing economic cooperation with China.

Although the Chinese foreign ministry sounded triumphant announcing that the Indian troops had withdrawn, experts say it was Beijing who had compromised by seemingly accepting New Delhi’s demand that it stop road construction in the disputed area where China, India and Bhutan meet.

“Despite Beijing’s deliberate ambiguity, China has apparently made substantial concessions in order to end the dispute,” Yue said.


Since the stand-off began in mid-June, India had urged China to put a stop to road building near its Bhutan border. Beijing had meanwhile insisted that India must withdraw its troops from the area before negotiations to peacefully resolve the crisis could begin.

China said on Tuesday that the weather was a factor affecting its construction of roads and other infrastructure along the Himalayan border with India, and it would maintain patrols in the contested area. But most analysts say China appears to have quietly halted the project after weeks of intense diplomatic negotiations.

"India has got exactly what it has wanted. It was a humiliating defeat for China to cave in to pressure from India despite all the tough talk,” Yue said.

Pant also said the Indian side may have agreed to withdraw because it got what it wanted on the Doklam plateau – restoration of the status quo before China began construction along the unmarked border.

http://m.scmp.com/news/china/diplom...-learned-tense-china-india-border-row-it-will

Another day and another stupid piece from SCMP.
Construction on road can only be resumed next June due to heavy snow and bad weather from September onwards.
When India trespassed onto Donglang, it is no longer about the road.
Indians look foolish to keep harping about the road.

Donglang stand-off is about India challenging China on the sovereignty of Donglang.
It is no longer about the road.

In a stand-off, everybody is looking for who will blink, not why there is a stand-off.
It is no longer about the land dispute or the road.

China has ordered India to stand down.
If Donglang belongs to Bhutan as India asserted, India don't have to leave.
India now has obediently OBEYED China's order.
Good Boy Obedient India.

India has clearly surrendered by standing down first.
India can redeem its pride only if China publicly announce that China has agreed to Indian terms, which has not happened.
But if that is the case, there would have been a mutual withdrawal.

PANGONG LAKE FIGHT
CHINA 1 . . . INDIA 0

DONGLANG STAND-OFF
CHINA 1 . . . INDIA 0
.

 

[dray / Rain Man]

It is Dokhlam not Dhela...Do you have another conflict with China in Dhela? BTW where is it located?

'Dhela' means rock. China couldn't move a rock in Doklam since June.