Chinese newspaper vents anger at TSMC over new Arizona fab, calling it a ‘dark turn’ for the global semiconductor industry

[jhungary]

We are talking about the companies on entity list that US suppliers can't do business with, not some random products. Not sure what point you try to make by bringing Cuban cigar.

Again, if this is followed to the letter, then how you can still buy Huawei Phone or Cuban cigar in the State? Or how Lavrov can get Iphone 14??

Company have their own choice whether or not to follow the Entity List. As I said, you can try to avoid it by moving the location of business (as in Cuban Cigar case, by moving them out of Cuba) or applying for exemption, like Coca Cola did with Iran, or sometime just ignore the Entity List altogether.

You, AS A COMPANY DIRECTOR, are NOT forced to follow the entity list. It's up to your own decision and discretion to do so.

 

[gambit]

No, TSMC never really has this choice if its very own survival is in question, otherwise they wouldn't have stopped supplying to Huawei.

Acturally I understand the reason that USA government has to bag TSMC, it's dirty but necessary. The problem I have is US government has always acussed China of the crime of "force tech transfer" or "coercive business practice" while doing all these dirty jobs. Like a whore acuses others not being a virgin.

A whore have no business of talking about virginity in the first place. What we accused China of doing is not speculative while what you are accusing US of doing -- is.

 

[Dungeness]

Again, if this is followed to the letter, then how you can still buy Huawei Phone or Cuban cigar in the State? Or how Lavrov can get Iphone 14??

Company have their own choice whether or not to follow the Entity List. As I said, you can try to avoid it by moving the location of business (as in Cuban Cigar case, by moving them out of Cuba) or applying for exemption, like Coca Cola did with Iran, or sometime just ignore the Entity List altogether.

You, AS A COMPANY DIRECTOR, are NOT forced to follow the entity list. It's up to your own decision and discretion to do so.

Huawei has to give its Kirin chips due to US sanction when it had market domination and in the blink of taking Apple's top position.

We are talking about the crucial tech that Huawei was relying on, not same random assemble phones with other company's chip. No, US companies do not have the options not to comply, Any workarounds carry too high the risk, and any CEO in his right mind wouldn't consider that. Basically you are saying any US sanctions has loop holes that can be exploited, but US government will treat anyone who tried like it treats Meng Wanzhou.

A whore have no business of talking about virginity in the first place. What we accused China of doing is not speculative while what you are accusing US of doing -- is.

That what I am saying, go ahead do your dirty business but don't pretent to be innocent.

 

[Song Hong]

Once you got an EUV anyone can produce 2nm. Not a difficult task for one or two small projects. Problem is you need to produce at 20% yield to break even and 90% yield to have scandalous profit.

You need a big team of experience, discipline and responsible engineers for that to happen.

 

[epebble]

Once you got an EUV anyone can produce 2nm.

Wow, that comment is so flippant that I won't even use it for making a hamburger. (Hey, McDonalds has a Hamburger University).

 

[nahtanbob]

Huawei has to give its Kirin chips due to US sanction when it had market domination and in the blink of taking Apple's top position.

We are talking about the crucial tech that Huawei was relying on, not same random assemble phones with other company's chip. No, US companies do not have the options not to comply, Any workarounds carry too high the risk, and any CEO in his right mind wouldn't consider that. Basically you are saying any US sanctions has loop holes that can be exploited, but US government will treat anyone who tried like it treats Meng Wanzhou.



That what I am saying, go ahead do your dirty business but don't pretent to be innocent.

Don't pretend to be a honest fellow when you are a thief

 

[jhungary]

Huawei has to give its Kirin chips due to US sanction when it had market domination and in the blink of taking Apple's top position.

We are talking about the crucial tech that Huawei was relying on, not same random assemble phones with other company's chip. No, US companies do not have the options not to comply, Any workarounds carry too high the risk, and any CEO in his right mind wouldn't consider that. Basically you are saying any US sanctions has loop holes that can be exploited, but US government will treat anyone who tried like it treats Meng Wanzhou.

Again, this is not about what Huawei use or cannot use, it's about whether or not individual company willing to engage, you are using one company that are willing to engage to demonstrate there are no option not to comply.

As I said, did US government treated Coca Cola like Meng Wanzhou when they are doing business in Iran when Iran is on the entity list?

Coca-Cola

A nuclear-armed Iran should concern every American and the global community. UANI seeks to prevent Iran from fulfilling its ambition to obtain nuclear weapons.

www.unitedagainstnucleariran.com

Or did US government treated subway like Meng Wanzhou when Subway still hold operation in Russia when US sanction Russia??

MSN

How about Burger King and the 20 odd US corporation still do business with Russia??

 

[Dungeness]

Again, this is not about what Huawei use or cannot use, it's about whether or not individual company willing to engage, you are using one company that are willing to engage to demonstrate there are no option not to comply.

As I said, did US government treated Coca Cola like Meng Wanzhou when they are doing business in Iran when Iran is on the entity list?

Coca-Cola

A nuclear-armed Iran should concern every American and the global community. UANI seeks to prevent Iran from fulfilling its ambition to obtain nuclear weapons.

www.unitedagainstnucleariran.com

Or did US government treated subway like Meng Wanzhou when Subway still hold operation in Russia when US sanction Russia??

MSN

How about Burger King and the 20 odd US corporation still do business with Russia??

Key words: Crucial technolodges, national security.

 

[jhungary]

Key words: Crucial technolodges, national security.

Keyword, Private Company

Private companies, but do they have to follow the sanctions whenever US government seems fit to slap? Do you know what "entity list" is for? Private or not means nothing when comes to geopolitics.

On the other hand, being crucial technology does not seems to forbid DOE to transfer this battery technology to China

Republicans Seek Investigation into DOE’s Alleged Transfer of Battery Tech to China - The Foreign Desk | by Lisa Daftari

The developers of the battery tech eventually found investors to produce them in China.

foreigndesknews.com

 

[Dungeness]

Keyword, Private Company



On the other hand, being crucial technology does not seems to forbid DOE to transfer this battery technology to China

Republicans Seek Investigation into DOE’s Alleged Transfer of Battery Tech to China - The Foreign Desk | by Lisa Daftari

The developers of the battery tech eventually found investors to produce them in China.

foreigndesknews.com

Any US company, private or otherwise, has to get a licence from US Dept. of Commerce to do business with the companies on the Entity List, therefore, the previously pure business decisions are now in the hand of government, to government's liking. Loopholes are very risky.

What is the point you are arguing? Private companies could/should find loopholes and take advantage of them? Because you can buy a huawei phone on Amazon so the sanctions against Huawei don't exist?

 

[jhungary]

Any US company, private or otherwise, has to get a licence from US Dept. of Commerce to do business with the companies on the Entity List, therefore, the previously pure business decisions are now in the hand of government, to government's liking. Loopholes are very risky.

What is the point you are arguing? Private companies could/should find loopholes and take advantage of them? Because you can buy a huawei phone on Amazon so the sanctions against Huawei don't exist?

Dude, again, did you know what you are talking about??

Sanction is sanction, whether or not company (US or not) will follow suit is another matter. I never said just because you can buy a Huawei Phone in US that does not mean sanction don't exist, and I don't know what kind of idiot would think that make sense.

I said, company have their own decision, you name one or some company that follow the sanction directed by Department of Commerce and then proceed to say "Private Company did not have a choice if we are talking about geopolitics" - THIS STATEMENT IS WRONG. As I already named 22 examples on US company ignoring sanction enacted by US government to Iran, China and Russia.

Whether they should or could take advantage of loophole or ignore those sanction is NOT the issue here, whether or not the company HAVE A CHOICE TO DO SO - IS

 

[Dungeness]

Dude, again, did you know what you are talking about??

Sanction is sanction, whether or not company (US or not) will follow suit is another matter. I never said just because you can buy a Huawei Phone in US that does not mean sanction don't exist, and I don't know what kind of idiot would think that make sense.

I said, company have their own decision, you name one or some company that follow the sanction directed by Department of Commerce and then proceed to say "Private Company did not have a choice if we are talking about geopolitics" - THIS STATEMENT IS WRONG. As I already named 22 examples on US company ignoring sanction enacted by US government to Iran, China and Russia.

Whether they should or could take advantage of loophole or ignore those sanction is NOT the issue here, whether or not the company HAVE A CHOICE TO DO SO - IS

I do believe there are loopholes in every sanction, and some may have succeeded in exploiting it without getting caught or US government just decided to let go. But knowningly evading sanction is a crime that can be punished by law. Government can come to you anytime if you do. Breaking law is NOT an OPTION for all companies I know of.

Just like you are speeding on high way, you may or may not get caught, if you did get caught, the cost is a speeding ticket. When it comes to crucial high tech, if you get caught breaking law, you may have to ware sagging pants rest of your life, and for me that cannot be considered as a valid option.

The key point here is government has the right to ulmately decide your business prospect. You are at the mercy of the government.

If you can find a way to smuggle a few ASML EUV machine to China, you could make yourself a billionair instantly.

 

[Song Hong]

It is assumed that USMC-TSMC will prosper in Arizona desert but I suspect USMC will bankrupt very soon. The hatred of Chinese has compelled US managers to hire Indians to replace Chinese. Even now rampant discrimination against Taiwan expatriates are taking place. And despite having no skill and experience, new US native recruits are having higher salary, more leave, and allow to have day time job, while Taiwanese expatriate 996 and take 24x7 shift.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

USA is also angry about manufacturing Apple products in China.

But this TSMC case is not just China who is angry because the purpose of building the factory is to target China.

But also Taiwan.

Not to mention USA is going to bomb Taiwan if there's China-Taiwan war as well.

Basically, this is a show of the selfishness of USA.

How is Taiwan opening factories in China not selfish yet opening one in the US somehow is?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I'm not sure what the big fuss is about. They are opening a single factory in the US. They are also building like another 5 in Taiwan.

This single factory is more of a wartime emergency factory than one that is going to actively steal marketshare from the Taiwanese ones. Yes, Apple may buy chips from it..but not its entire whole world need.

I think the Chinese paper in the OP isn't happy about seeing TSMC's newest tech being moved outside of China's ability to cut it off from the rest of the world...not about factory production numbers.