Chinese N-plants in Pakistan violates NGS rules: US

[nForce]

The numbers is academic. It is of no import. What is significant is that Isreal has WMD but has not at any stage come under scrutiny. The central crux of what I am saying is if you have "friend in high places" you don't need to worry about such silly things as having to follow international law or obligations.

The sub text for Pakistan? Hold on China's tail and see if they can leverage as well as US does for Isreal. time will tell.

The bold part is a fair-enough statement to make.

fair enough, so could please point out the specific clause which says that reactors of 5mw or so for that matter are not covered under NSG

Israel does even not come under NSG in the first place, its position is barred for not conforming to IAEA norms.

See, this is the thing that I'm trying to point out here. People simply find it easier to assume a hell lot of things without even giving a second thought. They find it more agreeable. Well, perhaps, things are not skewed that way ? Perhaps the reality is different ? Try to get the exact information and don't just believe whatever the media or your next-door-neighbour tells you.

 

[salarsikander]

People simply find it easier to assume a hell lot of things without even giving a second though

Hi,
Thanks for saving me from that, since its clear from your post.
Practise what you preach!
Here it is about you saying Israel not confirming to IAEA,

Can a member country become a member and not follow norms or rules laid down by the agreement they signed ?

Please assist me in dispelling my ignorance.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You see your making the mistake that most Pakistani's do. Your assuming that just because we have international rules that equates to rule of law. Let me disabuse you of such a notion. There is no international law therefore there is no point in looking at this from legal standpoint that a rule or law has been infracted.

One of the fundamental requirement for law is there has to be a authority that holds unto itself absolute sanction. Like in your country it is the Indian state. Who occupies that role at world level? Nobody. Thus there no basic requirement on which law rests - absolute authority which enjoys absolute sanction.

In such a situation we are left with rules but which are twisted, overlooked with the decisive factor being politics. So what is going to happen is more of a political question then legal. This is why Isreal has not been sanctioned because the politics of the situation assure Isreal is conveniently not touched. In the same way you can jump up about these so called NSG rules being infringed. However events are going to decided by the politics of the equation.

Which IMHO means China being rather large is hardly going to get punished. So like I said let China sort this out.

 

[SamantK]

"The agreement prohibits the transfer of any US-provided technology to another country without US consent"

This is Chinese technology, and no NGS rules can apply.
False premise article...

What stupidity, this is Chinese-provided technology has nothing to do with US.



Mendendez should worry more about his corruption trial and the laws he violated.

Lol, as far as I know all the commercial Chinese reactors for export are based on US technology.

Tell me which ones aint

 

[nForce]

Hi,
Thanks for saving me from that, since its clear from your post.
Practise what you preach!
Here it is about you saying Israel not confirming to IAEA,

Can a member country become a member and not follow norms or rules laid down by the agreement they signed ?

Please assist me in dispelling my ignorance.

With pleasure. Don't create much drama. IAEA is not equivalent to NSG..

Heck, even Nepal is a member of IAEA.

NSG = Nuclear Suppliers' Group.

Israel has been part of IAEA since early 60s, but neither a part of NSG nor one of its clients.

You see your making the mistake that most Pakistani's do. Your assuming that just because we have international rules that equates to rule of law. Let me disabuse you of such a notion. There is no international law therefore there is no point in looking at this from legal standpoint that a rule or law has been infracted.

One of the fundamental requirement for law is there has to be a authority that holds unto itself absolute sanction. Like in your country it is the Indian state. Who occupies that role at world level? Nobody. Thus there no basic requirement on which law rests - absolute authority which enjoys absolute sanction.

In such a situation we are left with rules but which are twisted, overlooked with the decisive factor being politics. So what is going to happen is more of a political question then legal. This is why Isreal has not been sanctioned because the politics of the situation assure Isreal is conveniently not touched. In the same way you can jump up about these so called NSG rules being infringed. However events are going to decided by the politics of the equation.

Which IMHO means China being rather large is hardly going to get punished. So like I said let China sort this out.

hehe.. you will run into a lot of problems related to maritime navigation, trade, internet, water sharing, sea access of landlocked countries...its a pretty big list man, you get the picture..

I will be doomed next time I'm traveling to Malaysia and the Malaysian radar does not pick the blip coming from Kochi air port, for example.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The issue is is not just equivalence but rather the principle. Namely do countries follow international obligations. Does USA make any sound and fury about the proliferation of WMD like it did with India and Pakistan?

China could very easily start making drama about Isreal's WMD's and watch how fast US testicles retreat on the NSG obligations.

 

[salarsikander]

Israel does even not come under NSG in the first place, its position is barred for not conforming to IAEA norms.

Hi,

Please be more serious about veracity of claims next time.

Your post misled numerous others into believing that to because Israel is not part of IAEA (which you wrongly quoted) i sthe reason why they are not covered under NSG.

Secondly as for China, those deals were signed well before China got entry into this exclusive club, Hence according to them these so called restrictions don't apply on them

 

[Indus Pakistan]

With pleasure. Don't create much drama. IAEA is not equivalent to NSG..

Heck, even Nepal is a member of IAEA.

NSG = Nuclear Suppliers' Group.

Israel has been part of IAEA since early 60s, but neither a part of NSG nor one of its clients.



hehe.. you will run into a lot of problems related to maritime navigation, trade, internet, water sharing, sea access of landlocked countries...its a pretty big list man, you get the picture..

I will be doomed next time I'm traveling to Malaysia and the Malaysian radar does not pick the blip coming from Kochi air port, for example.

Do try to appreciate and draw distinction between voluntary submission or elective choice and rule of law .... Please.

 

[Viking 63]

American Congress and Senate, Den of Satan and his Apostles.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Which IMHO means China being rather large is hardly going to get punished. So like I said let China sort this out.

America's talk is just for show anyway, after all they sold us those same reactor designs that we are giving to Pakistan.

Same as how many have accused China of helping Pakistan's nuclear program, but America turned a blind eye, since both China and Pakistan were aligned with America during the latter stages of the Cold War.

In fact we even got into the NPT after that, as one of the only 5 recognized nuclear powers in the world.

America's noises are only for India's domestic audience, on the ground they aren't actually doing anything, except profiting by selling more reactor designs to China.

America is clever, with a few words they can win yet more admiration from Indians, without having to actually do anything, or even stop selling us nuclear tech.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Let me elaborate - rule of law implies the prosecution of, judgment of a person so charged according to set rules without any outside influence or favour.

Most of international law is decided and adjudged like village panchyats back in South Asia. The guy's get togather, throw their weight around and then depending on who had more muscle or favours to dish out or in other words able to pull strings gets his or her way.

 

[ziaulislam]

Its just a statement to please congress, nothing more, nothing less. US knows that the day it allowed India to bypass NSG, the loophole was created. And Since Nuke plants in Pakistan employ none of US techs so effectively the ability of US to affect such an agreement becomes close to zero. And the Capitol Hill knows that very well.

i think as whole issue in Pakistan is internal, if there is any risk to nuclear plants in pakistan its due to illiterate columnists and media person along with their bunch of supporters who are trying every avenue to stop those plants, as they have in case of karachi via the court. Cant believe that karachi is so unlucky, first they dont get any projects, in case they do its blown away by their own Representatives

Been there, done that.. kid.

And please have mercy, no more replies in that English of yours, it is an assault on the senses.

its obvious is no mother tongue to him or me. so please dont go around complaining about people English language skills, a inferiority complex pretty much common to past British colonies.

As long as we barely understand it, its fine.

 

[nForce]

Hi,

Please be more serious about veracity of claims next time.

Your post misled numerous others into believing that to because Israel is not part of IAEA (which you wrongly quoted) i sthe reason why they are not covered under NSG.

Secondly as for China, those deals were signed well before China got entry into this exclusive club, Hence according to them these so called restrictions don't apply on them

Did you go to school ? Do you know English ?

1.barred for not conforming to IAEA norms.

2. Israel is not part of IAEA (which you wrongly quoted) - Did I ??

Israel has been part of IAEA since early 60s

Do you comprehend the difference between the two ?

What an arrogant fool. Tell me something, not owning up mistakes, I know that has been the practice on national level in Pakistan since its creation, is it a common thing among the masses too ?

 

[ziaulislam]

anyway wait for Pakistan to become a market for nuclear plants, every body will forget the clause, thats who it works. This is what happened in india, the main point of NSG was simple, why should russia get all the deals!
for now we arent a market at all, as we dont have the finances to build them.

Did you go to school ? Do you know English ?

1.barred for not conforming to IAEA norms.

2. Israel is not part of IAEA (which you wrongly quoted) - Did I ??



Do you comprehend the difference between the two ?

What an arrogant fool.

so how does that make us different?, i mean what does "barred for non conforming IAEA norms means"..care to elaborate as so many people are confused here.

 

[salarsikander]

Did you go to school ? Do you know English ?

1.barred for not conforming to IAEA norms.

2. Israel is not part of IAEA (which you wrongly quoted) - Did I ??



Do you comprehend the difference between the two ?

What an arrogant fool.

Hey next time you get personal I'll report you.

You said it is barred for not conforing to IAEA, what dies that suppose to mean,
Its only after you were corrected that a change in tone occurred didn't it ?