Chinese general arrested for gilded lifestyle

[Wholegrain]

why should Vietnamese army leadership have allowed a Chinese general to command?

it does not make sense at all. it has never happened in the long history of Vietnam.
China has always been hostile to Vietnam. It invaded and attacked us numerous times. We managed to defeat the Han, the Song, the Yuan, the Ming, the Qing and the Deng. They are loser.

We see Chinese as inferior in warfare. There is nothing they can teach us. Only one thing, we copied in using gunpowder weapons when in ancient times we had wars with our neighbors.

And the superior Vietnamese state got crushed and ruled for China by 1,000 years. Hahaha.

And according to your revisionist history you managed to "defeat" the Han dynasty when it crushed the Tran sisters's rebellion.

Tran dynasty and Ho dynasty were both ruled by Chinese.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Secondary Cities and Urban Networking in the Indian Ocean Realm, C. 1400-1800 - Google Books


A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Secondary Cities and Urban Networking in the Indian Ocean Realm, C. 1400-1800 - Google Books

The Ming dynasty liberated Vietnam from your Chinese ruled Ho dynasty. Without Ming, you would still be ruled by Chinese. When Yongle defeated the Ho, he said innocents should not be killed

Entry - Southeast Asia in the Ming Shi-lu

Yong-le: Year 5, Month 11, Day 3 (2 Dec 1407)
« Previous | Record 567 of 3279 | Next »
Imperial orders were sent to the Xin-cheng Marquis Zhang Fu, regional commander of Jiao-zhi. The orders read: "Jiao-zhi has now been pacified. If there are any who are rebellious, they mu st be eliminated. However, the officers and men mu st be warned not to let this extend to the innocent. The young males of the families of the evil rebels are not to be killed. However, all those who have pushed into the inner territory, regardless of whether they are slaves or ordinary people, if they take up arms in opposition, mu st be killed without leniency." Similar orders were sent to the Xi-ping Marquis Mu Sheng, deputy general of the left.

And most of the Vietnamese Kinh ancestors in the Red River Delta and Hanoi supported the Ming rule. The Kinh were "people of the capital".

It was Le Loi, who lived in the Vietnamese borderlands in Thanh Hoa where the "barbarian" Trai people (people of the camps) lived, where he started his rebellion. Le Loi himself was NOT a Kinh, but a Trai, and his army was made out of Trai people. The Kinh viewed Trai as barbarians.

Many of the Kinh Vietnamese in the Red River plain supported the Ming. Le Loi's anti Ming rebellion, was actually a Trai vs Kinh war, with the Kinh fighting for Ming against the Le dynasty Trai.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Strange Parallels: Southeast Asia in Global Context, C. 800 - 1830 - Victor B. Lieberman - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

The Trai people are ancestors of the Muong people. The Trai/Muong and Kinh were both of the same origin originally, speaking the same language. The difference between the Trai/Muong and Kinh, is that Kinh Vietnamese were influenced by Chinese culture, religion, and language, with Kinh adopting thousands of Chinese loanwords in their language, using Chu Nom characters, adopting Chinese Daoism, Confucianism, government, and alot of Chinese culture. The Trai/Muong refused to adopt it and maintained the original "barbarian" culture from before Chinese influenced Vietnam.

Muong people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Le Loi was a Trai/Muong, with a Trai/Muong army fighting against the Ming-Kinh Vietnamese forces. After Le Loi overthrew Ming rule, he and Le dynasty historians like Ngo Si Lien engaged in rewriting Vietnamese history to justify their own rule over Vietnam.

The Le dynasty then created the Kinh as a new ethnicity to seperate Vietnamese from minorities and other peoples. Before that, there was no seperate Kinh ethnic group, thats why the "Kinh" of the Red River region supported the Ming.

Goddess on the Rise: Pilgrimage and Popular Religion in Vietnam - Philip Taylor - Google Books

Human Rights in Asia: A Comparative Legal Study of Twelve Asian ... - Google Books

Historical Dictionary of the Peoples of the Southeast Asian Massif - Jean Michaud - Google Books

Postwar Vietnam: Dynamics of a Transforming Society - Google Books

The Art of Not Being Governed: An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast Asia - James C. Scott - Google Books

Culture and Customs of Vietnam - Mark W. McLeod, Thi Dieu Nguyen - Google Books

Le dynasty historian Ngo Si Lien started inventing tales about Vietnamese being descended from Shennong and making stories up about the Hung Kings, to extend the Kinh's ethnic history back to antiquity. Before that, the Kinh didn't have a seperate distinct history.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Blood and Soil: A World History of Genocide and Extermination from Sparta to ... - Ben Kiernan - Google Books

 

[EastSea]

And most of the Vietnamese Kinh ancestors in the Red River Delta and Hanoi supported the Ming rule. The Kinh were "people of the capital".
It was Le Loi, who lived in the Vietnamese borderlands in Thanh Hoa where the "barbarian" Trai people (people of the camps) lived, where he started his rebellion. Le Loi himself was NOT a Kinh, but a Trai, and his army was made out of Trai people. The Kinh viewed Trai as barbarians.
Many of the Kinh Vietnamese in the Red River plain supported the Ming. Le Loi's anti Ming rebellion, was actually a Trai vs Kinh war, with the Kinh fighting for Ming against the Le dynasty Trai.

You are idiot, you troll again and again with such trash.

Jiaozhi people was at first Muong/Kinh people in one ethnicity group, we speaking a same language Mon/Khmer language from ancient time,

Muong/Kinh people say in the past : " Kẻ Chợ " it mean "people living near by markets". was writing 交址 in Chinese or "Kochin" in south asia language. Literately " Kinh People ", to call all people were living in nearby market or near capital in Red River Delta.

Kinh people is became separated ethnic group from Muong people around 1,300 years ago. This statement is base on method for reconstruction of words Muong/Kinh people shared in the past. We can say Former Ly Dynasty of Lý Bôn is Muong Dynasty, there were no Kinh people existed in this time, in 6th century AD.

Around 600 year ago, Lê Lợi was Kinh in ethnicity, kid.

Le dynasty historian Ngo Si Lien started inventing tales about Vietnamese being descended from Shennong and making stories up about the Hung Kings, to extend the Kinh's ethnic history back to antiquity. Before that, the Kinh didn't have a seperate distinct history.

.

Ngô Sỹ Liên didn't invented nothing, he copied and pasted from "Lĩnh Nam chích quái : 嶺南摭怪;" This book was collected all the folk-stories telling by people from ancient time. The last edition of this book was presented from time of Trần Dynasty, 200 years long before to the time of Ngô Sỹ Liên, when " Đại Việt Sử Ký Toàn Thư " was written.

 

[ChinaToday]

LOL at retard viets telling us how good they can fight when their country been colonised so many time by numerous nations hahaha I m LMAO

You are idiot, you troll again and again with such trash.

Jiaozhi people was at first Muong/Kinh people in one ethnicity group, we speaking a same language Mon/Khmer language from ancient time,

Muong/Kinh people say in the past : " Kẻ Chợ " it mean "people living near by markets". was writing 交址 in Chinese or "Kochin" in south asia language. Literately " Kinh People ", to call all people were living in nearby market or near capital in Red River Delta.

Kinh people is became separated ethnic group from Muong people around 1,300 years ago. This statement is base on method for reconstruction of words Muong/Kinh people shared in the past. We can say Former Ly Dynasty of Lý Bôn is Muong Dynasty, there were no Kinh people existed in this time, in 6th century AD.

Around 600 year ago, Lê Lợi was Kinh in ethnicity, kid.


.

Ngô Sỹ Liên didn't invented nothing, he copied and pasted from "Lĩnh Nam chích quái : 嶺南摭怪;" This book was collected all the folk-stories telling by people from ancient time. The last edition of this book was presented from time of Trần Dynasty, 200 years long before to the time of Ngô Sỹ Liên, when " Đại Việt Sử Ký Toàn Thư " was written.

yeah right three things Vietnam is really good at

1) backstabbing
2) begging
3) betraying

 

[Kyle Sun]

no reason for shame.

we are not selling the bay. half is used by the Vietnamese Navy. the other half is for commercial operations and open for all foreign vessels, including Chinese warships. the bay was given to the Soviets during the cold war. After the collapse of the Soviets, they were not able to pay the rent and withdrew.

No excuse please!

The bay was the military base of Soviet Union , that means Soviet Union army garrisoned the bay like guard their territory.

Vie is a independent country ,right ? Why your gov allow foreign army stay in your country ?

Soviet Union also wanted to set up a military base in QingDao, we said " NO ".

After Soviet Union collapsed , Vie Gov exerts pressure to RU gov , want to force them to withdraw when Ru was weak.

About rent , Using rent as a excuse is a ridiculous. What kind of gov will sell military base for money ?

Viet want to use this transaction to protect yourself, and now you are negotiating with RU again about the bay when CN and RU are getting strong.

Do not tell me your gov rent the bay for money please and Forgive my straightforward.

 

[EastSea]

LOL at retard viets telling us how good they can fight when their country been colonised so many time by numerous nations hahaha I m LMAO



yeah right three things Vietnam is really good at

1) backstabbing
2) begging
3) betraying

Chinese were ruled by Mongolian, Manchus such barbarian tribes from Northern China. You begged such barbarian as you daddies.

You are Yue, bai Yue, ruled from 2,000 years. You can not regain your dependence from them until now. You are slaves of Han Chinese. Slaves don't have right to being Human, and don't have right to talk nothing.

1/ Slaves of Han People until now.
2/ Begged Soviet first, then USA. "Beggar Team" Cai Bang is invented in China.
3/ Betryied socialist countries, who were by side with You for Independence of China from Japan and in cold war.

Shut a mouth.

 

[Grand Historian]

Ngô Sỹ Liên didn't invented nothing, he copied and pasted from "Lĩnh Nam chích quái : 嶺南摭怪;" This book was collected all the folk-stories telling by people from ancient time. The last edition of this book was presented from time of Trần Dynasty, 200 years long before to the time of Ngô Sỹ Liên, when " Đại Việt Sử Ký Toàn Thư " was written.

Yet the majority of the lands the area coined Lingnan is in Southern China, surely if Xich Quy,Van Lang of the Hung kings existed the Chinese or minorities would have myths about them.(which they do not)

Face it, no historian worth his salt relies on folk tales to supplant the orthodox view of Chinese history,this is borderline ultra nationalism.

As I stated before, former vassal/tributary states always try to leech off the contributions of China.

 

[EastSea]

No excuse please!

The bay was the military base of Soviet Union , that means Soviet Union army garrisoned the bay like guard their territory.

Vie is a independent country ,right ? Why your gov allow foreign army stay in your country ?

Soviet Union also wanted to set up a military base in QingDao, we said " NO ".

After Soviet Union collapsed , Vie Gov exerts pressure to RU gov , want to force them to withdraw when Ru was weak.

About rent , Using rent as a excuse is a ridiculous. What kind of gov will sell military base for money ?

Viet want to use this transaction to protect yourself, and now you are negotiating with RU again about the bay when CN and RU are getting strong.

Do not tell me your gov rent the bay for money please and Forgive my straightforward.

Your mentality is unstable.

You attacked Soviet Union 1969 to kiss *** of USA 1972. Russian with their experience, Russian don't believe you.

 

[Grand Historian]

Chinese were ruled by Mongolian, Manchus such barbarian tribes from Northern China. You begged such barbarian as you daddies.

You are Yue, bai Yue, ruled from 2,000 years. You can not regain your dependence from them until now. You are slaves of Han Chinese. Slaves don't have right to being Human, and don't have right to talk nothing.

1/ Slaves of Han People until now.
2/ Begged Soviet first, then USA. "Beggar Team" Cai Bang is invented in China.
3/ Betryied socialist countries, who were by side with You for Independence of China from Japan and in cold war.

Shut a mouth.

What about it?

China like many other civilizations through history was invaded and ruled by foreign conquerors,you have to realize that the invaders treated the native "Han" differently depending on cooperation or order of conquest and even intermarried with them.

You do realize that nomadic ethnicites rose up in revolt or invaded only when China was weak and divided.

Han forced the Northern Xiongnu to flee and settled the Southern Xiongnu,While the Tang crushed the Gokturks,Ming drove the Mongols to the steppes and the Qing pacified the Zunghar khanate.as

Finally you reveal your true colors,you insist that somehow Southern Han Chinese are Baiyue people so you can live under your delusion that Vietnamese ruled Chinese and that we have kinship.

Hate to break your fantasy but modern day Southern Han Chinese claim descent from Northern migrants and the Baiyue population was never large,furthermore the entire area was sinicized.

Go tell Southern Han Chinese in China that they are actually Baiyue I won't vouch for you safety though

Are you daft?,how could we be slaves of Han Chinese if we are Han Chinese ourselves?

I ask you again are Southern Vietnamese not true Vietnamese because they mixed with Chams,Khmers and Chinese?

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

@Grand Historian , you just put these Vietnamese on shame, they like to brag about other such mongols, Japanese to compensate their inferiority complexe.

 

[EastSea]

Yet the majority of the lands the area coined Lingnan is in Southern China, surely if Xich Quy,Van Lang of the Hung kings existed the Chinese or minorities would have myths about them.(which they do not)

Face it, no historian worth his salt relies on folk tales to supplant the orthodox view of Chinese history,this is borderline ultra nationalism.

As I stated before, former vassal/tributary states always try to leech off the contributions of China.

I guess You are Cantonese, is right ?

our debate is about our history for Vietnam, for the Kinh people is main ethnic group of Vietnam Nation.

You can trust it or not, same Hua/Xia, Vanlang is myth too.

Van Lang's existence is debated in Vietnam as you know. But I have my idea when I read a historian book. What was truly happens in the prehistory time ? from 10,000 to 5,000 years ? I posted my comments many time, I think you have been read it.

@Grand Historian , you just put these Vietnamese at shame, they like to brag about other such mongols, Japanese to compensate their inferiority complexe.

You are Cantonese too. Nan Yue people were barbarian in time of Hua/Xia people ruled ZhongYan of China. You are fake Han.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

You are Cantonese too. Nan Yue people were barbarian in time of Hua/Xia people ruled ZhongYan of China. You are fake Han.

What ever, I carelessly want to know my real ancestor, China is melting pot, there was so many wars and too many killing since warren states and beyond, to be Han for me is to live peace with others consider themself as Han regardless of their true origine...not only that we're united as a pack and defend Chinese interest...I think it's wise that you join us...than there will never an issue over SCS...

 

[EastSea]

What ever, I carelessly want to know my real ancestor, China is melting pot, there was so many wars and too many killing since warren states and beyond, to be Han for me is to live peace with others consider themself as Han regardless of their true origine...not only that we're united as a pack and defend Chinese interest...I think it's wise that you join us...than there will never an issue over SCS...

This is different between us, You Nan Yue/Katay-Tai speaking people joined to Han people and claimed yourself as Southern Han.

We Vietnamese/Kinh/MonKhmer speaking language people, we regained our independence from China.

Islands in SCS belong at first to Mon/Khmer speaking people from ancient time.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

This is different between us, You Nan Yue/Katay-Tai speaking people joined to Han people and claimed yourself as Southern Han.

We Vietnamese/Kinh/MonKhmer speaking language people, we regained our independence from China.

Islands in SCS belong at first to Mon/Khmer speaking people from ancient time.

You can believe what ever you want...I don't want to go all over again. you Vietnameses are like magnet, when we're weak, you escape our gravity, when we're strong you will automatically be pull back.

 

[Wholegrain]

Chinese were ruled by Mongolian, Manchus such barbarian tribes from Northern China. You begged such barbarian as you daddies.

You are Yue, bai Yue, ruled from 2,000 years. You can not regain your dependence from them until now. You are slaves of Han Chinese. Slaves don't have right to being Human, and don't have right to talk nothing.

1/ Slaves of Han People until now.
2/ Begged Soviet first, then USA. "Beggar Team" Cai Bang is invented in China.
3/ Betryied socialist countries, who were by side with You for Independence of China from Japan and in cold war.

Shut a mouth.

Poor dumb baboon, the majority of southern Han, ESPECIALLY Cantonese, are descended from northern Han migrants to southern China. Thats why most southern han share Y Chromosome Haplogroup O3a with northern Han.

How Han are Taiwanese Han? Genetic Inference of Plains Indigenous Ancestry ... - Shu-Juo Chen - Google Books

Y chromosome data show that on average southern Chinese Han have a large paternal contribution from northern Chinese Han (82%). But mtDNA data show that southern Chinese Han have equal maternal contributions from northern Chinese Han (56%) and southern Chinese natives ( 44%) (Table 4A). The high paternal but lower maternal contribution from northern Chinese Han indicate strong sex-biased admixture in southern Chinese Han over the past two millennia (Wen et al. 2004). A more recent comparison of paternal and maternal data confirmed the sex-biased admixture in southern Chinese Han (Xue et al. 2008).

When we consider the admixture proportions of Fujian Han and Guangdong Han, the ancestors of Taiwanese Han, sex-biased admixture is even more evident than in the southern Chinese Han averages. Fujian Han are estimated to have a 100 percent paternal contribution from northern Chinese Han but only a 34 percent maternal contribution from northern Chinese Han. Guangdong Han are estimated to have 68 percent paternal but only 1 5 percent maternal contribution from northern Chinese Han. The maternal contributions from southern Chinese natives to Fujian and Guangdong Han were estimated as 66 percent and 85 percent (Table 3A), respectively. The extreme sex-biased contributions in Fujian Han and Guangdong Han indicate that the male ancestors of Taiwanese Han frequently intermarried with the female ancestors of southern Chinese natives before they migrated to Taiwan.

This sex-bias illustrates a significant feature of the Han expansion: many male migrants from northern China married women from local non-Han populations in the south. Therefore, the Han-grandfathers-Indigenous-grandmothers folk saying seems to apply generally to southern China over the past two millenia.

http://159.226.149.45/compgenegroup/paper/wenbo Han culture paper (2004).pdf

The spread of culture and language in human populations is explained by two alternative models: the demic diffusion model, which involves mass movement of people; and the cultural diffusion model, which refers to cultural impact between populations and involves limited genetic exchange between them. The mechanism of the peopling of Europe has long been debated, a key issue being whether the diffusion of agriculture and language from the Near East was concomitant with a large movement of farmers. Here we show, by systematically analysing Y-chromosome and mitochondrial DNA variation in Han populations, that the pattern of the southward expansion of Han culture is consistent with the demic diffusion model, and that males played a larger role than females in this expansion. The Han people, who all share the same culture and language, exceed 1.16 billion (2000 census), and are by far the largest ethnic group in the world. The expansion process of Han culture is thus of great interest to researchers in many fields.

European Journal of Human Genetics - Abstract of article: A spatial analysis of genetic structure of human populations in China reveals distinct difference between maternal and paternal lineages

Analyses of archeological, anatomical, linguistic, and genetic data suggested consistently the presence of a significant boundary between the populations of north and south in China. However, the exact location and the strength of this boundary have remained controversial. In this study, we systematically explored the spatial genetic structure and the boundary of north–south division of human populations using mtDNA data in 91 populations and Y-chromosome data in 143 populations. Our results highlight a distinct difference between spatial genetic structures of maternal and paternal lineages. A substantial genetic differentiation between northern and southern populations is the characteristic of maternal structure, with a significant uninterrupted genetic boundary extending approximately along the Huai River and Qin Mountains north to Yangtze River. On the paternal side, however, no obvious genetic differentiation between northern and southern populations is revealed.

大中华文明圈各地域人们的血统构成，例：大和民族九州岛父系—汉族血统40%... – 【人人分享-人人网】

According to a DNA Chinese study for all Han ethnic group. The average Cantonese paternal Y-DNA is 60% Han and 40% Baiyue while maternal mtDNA is 20% Han and 80% Baiyue. Of the Han paternal Y-DNA ancestry 10% is estimated to have came from during the Qin dynasty and 50% came from the Tang/Song dynasty 《人口研究》 - 中国各地DNA数据 [34]

The majority of Northern and Southern Han Y chromosomes are the same, subclades of Y haplogroup O3. Native haplogroups like O1 are in the minority.

Southern dialects like Cantonese are even closer to ancient Middle Chinese than Mandarin.

Food in China: A Cultural and Historical Inquiry - Frederick J. Simoons - Google Books

Early Child Cantonese: Facts and Implications - Shek Tse, Hui Li - Google Books

Cantonese is ancient as well as modern

As spoken today, Cantonese features certain phonological characteristics that are quite close to some pronunciations in Middle Chinese. In fact, some classic Chinese literary pieces, especially poetry, sound close to the original when read in Cantonese because Cantonese phonology is similar in many aspects to the pronunciations used in Middle Chinese.

In contrast, the pronunciation of Mandarin is very different from Middle Chinese; thus, poetry in Middle Chinese can sound quite discordant when read in Mandarin. Using Mandarin phonology in poetry and other rhyme-based writings originally composed in Middle Chinese may sometimes make the lines of the poem sound quite incoherent as Mandarin differs so markedly from Middle Chinese phonology.

The Chinese Language: Its History and Current Usage - Google Books

Cantonese is probably the closest living dialect to the Middle Chinese of the Tang dynasty (618-907 CE), and the Cantonese often refer to themselves as 唐人 tong yan, "people of the Tang."

Non Han people would refer to Han people from the central plains (Zhongyuan) as "people of the Tang". The Cantonese would use this same term to refer to themselves.

Chinese History: A Manual - Endymion Porter Wilkinson - Google Books

China - Michael Cannings - Google Books[/quote]

mandarin: ni hao, wo shi guangdong ren 你好、我是廣東人
cantonese: nei ho, ngoh si gwong dung yan. 你好、我是廣東人
Minnan: lí hó, góa sī Kńg-tang lâng 你好、我是廣東人
hakka: ngi ho, ngai si Kóng tûng ngìn 你好、我是廣東人

vietnamese:Xin chào, Tôi là Người Quảng Đông. 嗔嘲, 晬罗

廣東

Japanese: Konnichiwa, watashi ha kanton jin desu こんにちは, 私は広東人です

Korean: Annyeong, jeonun gwangdung saram imnida 安寧, 저는 廣東 사람 입니다

 

[Viet]

No excuse please!

The bay was the military base of Soviet Union , that means Soviet Union army garrisoned the bay like guard their territory.

Vie is a independent country ,right ? Why your gov allow foreign army stay in your country ?

Soviet Union also wanted to set up a military base in QingDao, we said " NO ".

After Soviet Union collapsed , Vie Gov exerts pressure to RU gov , want to force them to withdraw when Ru was weak.

About rent , Using rent as a excuse is a ridiculous. What kind of gov will sell military base for money ?

Viet want to use this transaction to protect yourself, and now you are negotiating with RU again about the bay when CN and RU are getting strong.

Do not tell me your gov rent the bay for money please and Forgive my straightforward.

I wonder if you understand the situation?

Soviet Union and Vietnam were military allies, so it was natural that the mightier partner the Soviets had bases in Vietnam. So Cam Ranh bay. like the Americans had the bay when South Vietnam was their ally. You could afford to say NO, but we are a small nation.

Besides, America has military bases all over the world, including Germany. Is Germany a US vassal? Not everyone is China: big, populous and can protect yourself. So You can afford to say NO.