Chinese Foreign Affairs News & Discussions

[justanobserver]

I'll repost what I said on the prev page so people don't miss it (all thanks to you praveen )

Originally Posted by justanobserver

Originally Posted by mike05
So whats your point? Are you saying because Pakistan started all wars with India in the past and India has never been an aggressor towards Pakistan an act of aggression by India will never happen in the future??

Well you started off with

Originally Posted by mike05
Assuming China did not back Pakistan with weapons and technological assistance would India still use diplomacy to settle disputes with Pakistan?

This implied that we have been the aggressors and you guys were defending poor Pakistan, I wanted to correct that perspective.

As for your second point, youth are finally entering politics in large numbers, there will come a day when India will have a young,confident and assertive leader. So yes in the future anything could happen.

Originally Posted by mike05
India developed her own Nuclear Arsenal using a civilian reactor which was obtained from Canada after agreeing “that the reactor would be used only for peaceful uses." (talk about trying to take the moral high ground). Both sides obtain their weapons thru unorthodox means so there is no right and wrong in either case, what makes India's methods of obtaining its weapons any better then Pakistan's?

In obtaining weapons we don't hold any moral high ground, completely agree with you on that point.

BUT, proliferation is a completely different story, Pakistan through AQ Khan proliferated nuclear weapons to North Korea, Iran and Libya. That's where we get the moral high ground and that is also why AQ Khan is under house arrest in Pakistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Right that Qing Dynasty had more conflict with India, again due to Tibet, but the war happened in Tang Dynasty was trivial to China proper and is seldom known.

Please could you give us more information. Chinese history is not my subject, and I am therefore unable to link this to any corresponding Tibetan historical episode or to Indian reports.

(Western) People find that, from historical point of view, if China is wholly ruled by minorities (Man, Mongol), it is more expansionistic and more imperialistic than when Han rules China.

It that’s true, India should feel lucky that mainly Han is ruling China today. And I strongly suggest Indian friends support currently Chinese regime, instead of trying to hate or otherwise subvert it: it is for your own good.

Technically the war was against one of the Indian city states but it was still pretty impressive given how the commander of the campaign was an ambassador and had to rely on a handful of Tibetan mercenaries to accomplish the feat.

Are you talking about the same incident? If so, the same request please: names, dates, sources.

Regards,

 

[FSLN]

freedom of speech.............

 

[Brotherhood]

freedom of speech.............

And most important of all, freedom for your indigenous drink

 

[mike05]

This implied that we have been the aggressors and you guys were defending poor Pakistan, I wanted to correct that perspective.

As for your second point, youth are finally entering politics in large numbers, there will come a day when India will have a young,confident and assertive leader. So yes in the future anything could happen.)

Actually I was not implying anything and was not intending too anyway, my points were simply if Pakistan did not have a nuclear weapon back in 98 would India still use diplomacy to negotiate with them? Given that India is a lot stronger military and financially then it was 3 decades ago compared to Pakistan who can definitely say no despite who started to the previous conflicts? Also now that both sides have WMD there hasn't been a war of recent especially with the Kasmir conflicts and Mumbai attacks etc.

In obtaining weapons we don't hold any moral high ground, completely agree with you on that point.

BUT, proliferation is a completely different story, Pakistan through AQ Khan proliferated nuclear weapons to North Korea, Iran and Libya. That's where we get the moral high ground and that is also why AQ Khan is under house arrest in Pakistan.

Every Nuclear power is guilty of proliferation at some point, China trusted the wrong person to work with for assisting in the Pakistan Nuclear pro gramme though he was the best person for the job (Just like the US trusting Osama BL to help them in Afghanistan). If China wanted North Korea to have a bomb that badly they can gift wrap one and drop it at the border.

India on the hand even invited Iraq scientist to work together on Nuclear related work and a host of similar proliferations. Thats a lot of discussion in this other link which I won't bother to put here.

As said all Nuclear are guilty of proliferation some way of the other regardless of who did and did not signed the NPT. The only country that can take the moral high ground on this is the country without any nukes period and that is why should not even compare who is bigger proliferation baddy because its pointless.

 

[prototype]

Finally back here after a long ban....but what r we discussing here

Future Sino-Indian relation or past Sino-Pak-India relation

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Please could you give us more information. Chinese history is not my subject, and I am therefore unable to link this to any corresponding Tibetan historical episode or to Indian reports.

I think it was against Nepalis. Not Indians.. I cant really remember. But Sikh Indians fought the Tibetans.

"Ten Great Campaigns" is an interesting war. When the Manchus fought several enemies. Including the Gurkhas.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I think it was against Nepalis. Not Indians.. I cant really remember. But Sikh Indians fought the Tibetans.

"Ten Great Campaigns" is an interesting war. When the Manchus fought several enemies. Including the Gurkhas.

Several of the later campaigns ended in near disaster but were called victories any ways since Qianlong was getting senile during the later phases of his reign.

 

[justanobserver]

Actually I was not implying anything and was not intending too anyway, my points were simply if Pakistan did not have a nuclear weapon back in 98 would India still use diplomacy to negotiate with them?

Look at it both ways:

Pakistan got nukes in 1998 and Kargil war happened in 1999

India had a nuclear weapon in 1974, still Kargil war happened in 1999

Having nukes, doesn't mean there won't be war.

Given that India is a lot stronger military and financially then it was 3 decades ago compared to Pakistan who can definitely say no despite who started to the previous conflicts?

India was always a lot stronger than Pak that's why we won the 3 wars (Pakistanis here would say otherwise, but then neutral sources are your friend), rather it's their constant goal of seeking parity with India that has left them in their current state.

Also now that both sides have WMD there hasn't been a war of recent especially with the Kasmir conflicts and Mumbai attacks etc.

Which recent 'kashmir conflicts' are you talking about?

Mumbai was tragic, but we didn't retalite because of one major reason: USA (many would say moral high ground, but thats not the case).

It would have totally jeopardized the American WoT operation (that was probably the goal of the terrorists).

In fact the Bob Woodward book actually quotes Bush saying "we absolutely have to stop them from going to war"

Every Nuclear power is guilty of proliferation at some point, China trusted the wrong person to work with for assisting in the Pakistan Nuclear pro gramme though he was the best person for the job (Just like the US trusting Osama BL to help them in Afghanistan). If China wanted North Korea to have a bomb that badly they can gift wrap one and drop it at the border.

India on the hand even invited Iraq scientist to work together on Nuclear related work and a host of similar proliferations. Thats a lot of discussion in this other link which I won't bother to put here.

Wow just...wow you gave me a link to thread (on Pakistan Defence Forum !) which has the article from BS blogs !

It's almost as if you guys don't want to listen. I post credible articles and you go on like 'lalalalallalalallala can't hear you'

As said all Nuclear are guilty of proliferation

Not India. Give me one credible article (not from blogs and bogus sources)

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

It's almost as if you guys don't want to listen. I post credible articles and you go on like 'lalalalallalalallala can't hear you'

OK then, let's cut to the chase. What do you want to say?

Look at it both ways:

Pakistan got nukes in 1998 and Kargil war happened in 1999

India had a nuclear weapon in 1974, still Kargil war happened in 1999

Having nukes, doesn't mean there won't be war.

As I said before, Pakistan only tested nuclear weapons in 1998, and Kargil was in 1999. One year is not enough to develop a mature stockpile of nuclear weapons.

At that point there was no option of a massive nuclear retaliation. In addition, India had a "No first use" policy so there was no threat of using nukes in a conventional conflict at that time.

What war has taken place, between two nuclear powers that both had the capability of massive nuclear retaliation?

 

[justanobserver]

OK then, let's cut to the chase. What do you want to say?

About the 'lalalalalal' part, fine I got pissed. I mean how the hell are articles from
owlstree.blogspot.com credible?!!

What do you want to say?

Hmm good question, thread started off with India-China relations and now has meandered off.

Ignoring the China-Pakistan part and focusing only on India-Pakistan, I would say that there is a high possibility of future war.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Please could you give us more information. Chinese history is not my subject, and I am therefore unable to link this to any corresponding Tibetan historical episode or to Indian reports.





Are you talking about the same incident? If so, the same request please: names, dates, sources.

Regards,

Sir I was referring to this individual.

Wang Xuance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The article links to English sources on the battles.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Hmm good question, thread started off with India-China relations and now has meandered off.

Ignoring the China-Pakistan part and focusing only on India-Pakistan, I would say that there is a high possibility of future war.

I disagree on this point, considering that both sides now have mature nuclear stockpiles (therefore making war more costly).

However I would welcome your views on such a topic.

Since Pakistan does not have a "No first use" policy, and India has greater conventional forces, don't you think a war between India-Pakistan has a very high chance of turning nuclear?

 

[justanobserver]

Originally Posted by Chinese-Dragon
As I said before, Pakistan only tested nuclear weapons in 1998, and Kargil was in 1999. One year is not enough to develop a mature stockpile of nuclear weapons.

At that point there was no option of a massive nuclear retaliation. In addition, India had a "No first use" policy so there was no threat of using nukes in a conventional conflict at that time.

What war has taken place, between two nuclear powers that both had the capability of massive nuclear retaliation?

You guys had the Red Army march on your soil in 1969 and both you had nukes!

1965/1971 all out type wars won't occur, but a war like Kargil (albeit of a smaller scale) could definitely happen in the future.

Like I said a war which threatens the very existence of Pakistan or balkanization would definitely trigger a nuclear response. But border skirmishes are bound to happen

 

[mike05]

Wow just...wow you gave me a link to thread (on Pakistan Defence Forum !) which has the article from BS blogs !

It's almost as if you guys don't want to listen. I post credible articles and you go on like 'lalalalallalalallala can't hear you'




Not India. Give me one credible article (not from blogs and bogus sources)

My god you are peanut, I put the link because there are comments linking to other reports by US congressional findings indicating that India too is guilty of proliferation. Can you 100% say that India has never proliferated any Nuclear Technology to other nations???

I did not deny any of what you said is inaccurate except for how you like to paint the GOI as some kind of saint in this affairs.