Chinese Flanker Family: J-11, J-16 ... Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK

[Beast]

Wiki say Sukhoi Su-30MKI has electronic counter-measure systems. The RWR system is of Indian design, developed by India's DRDO, called Tarang, (Wave in Sanskrit). It has direction finding capability and is known to have a programmable threat library. The RWR is derived from work done on an earlier system for India's MiG-23BNs known as the Tranquil, which is now superseded by the more advanced Tarang series. Elta EL/M-8222 a self-protection jammer developed by Israel Aircraft Industries is the MKI's standard EW pod, which the Israeli Air Force uses on its F-15s. The ELTA El/M-8222 Self Protection Pod is a power-managed jammer, air-cooled system with an ESM receiver integrated into the pod. The pod contains an antenna on the forward and aft ends, which receive the hostile RF signal and after processing deliver the appropriate response.

Can you re- read what I wrote??? I never say MKI has no EW suit. All the EW suit you mention on MKI is absent from J-11b becos its definitely a different ball game. It's will be complete Chinese version. Doesn't mean the Suit on MKI is inferior.. I think is in fact very capable.

 

[A.Rafay]

Don't worry! Once China gets its hand on the 24 Su-35 , we will transfer those 24 planes to PAF... It's all part of the plan.

We don't need those Russian Su-35.

Is that really the Plan??

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

One of the reasons PAF has not ordered the j-10,they know it would be at a disadvantage against mki let alone rafale.PAF waiting for better versions of j-10s,some radical upgrade of jf-17 or go straight for 5th gen by saving money.Smart thinking by PAF.

 

[PakShah]

We should try getting some J-11s. I heard the range is excellent.

 

[Edevelop]

We should try getting some J-11s. I heard the range is excellent.

No worries. I think J-10B will turn out to be pretty good.

 

[Windjammer]

We should try getting some J-11s. I heard the range is excellent.

As good as the J-11 is, it's not necessary that it meets PAF's operational requirements like the J-10 does.
After the induction of JF-17 is complete, the J-10 as the next step and then we could think about the J-31.... it looks the works.

 

[PakShah]

self-delete.

 

[PakShah]

As good as the J-11 is, it's not necessary that it meets PAF's operational requirements like the J-10 does.
After the induction of JF-17 is complete, the J-10 as the next step and then we could think about the J-31.... it looks the works.

True, true. Windjammer, we Muslims are weak today. We Muslims need to come together (e.g. Saudi Arabia, UAE, Pakistan, Morocco, Malaysia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan) and form on our own military consortium that can rival sukhoi or lockheed martin.

 

[doidoi2]

in this day and age, whoever has the best radars and missiles, and are stealthy enough to evade the enemy's radars wins.

Air frame is only the carrier of weapons, and the weapons platform is only one part of a comprehensive military strategy.

I'd actually be more impressed if the kills were based on radar info from another plane, like the radar info from a radar surveillance plane. That would show that the PLAAF has the ability to coordinate an attack as a cohesive force instead of single plane tactics that amount to not much more than who has the biggest radar and smallest RCS.

 

[帅的一匹]

Is that really the Plan??

That's no more than a joke.

 

[帅的一匹]

We should try getting some J-11s. I heard the range is excellent.

Don't worry Bro, step by step. Go for J31 straightly after induct J10b, it really kills.

 

[Pakistanisage]

The choice between J-10B and J-11 has to do more with the Doctrine of Pakistan Air Force. PAF decided to stick with Single engine fighters as opposed to twin engine fighters. At some point if PAF reverses this strategy it will look into the best twin fighters for its Squadrons.

Personally, I favor a twin engine heavier fighter for a AIR SUPERIORITY role.

 

[帅的一匹]

The choice between J-10B and J-11 has to do more with the Doctrine of Pakistan Air Force. PAF decided to stick with Single engine fighters as opposed to twin engine fighters. At some point if PAF reverses this strategy it will look into the best twin fighters for its Squadrons.

Personally, I favor a twin engine heavier fighter for a AIR SUPERIORITY role.

PAF is a defence force, multiple role fighter like J10b is more affordable. Looking forward to the see what will happen if J10b face J11b in the mock excercise. But we shall not exclude any possibility that PAF will change its Doctrine of stick to single enigne fighters in the future. It depends on the situation.

 

[S10]

One of the reasons PAF has not ordered the j-10,they know it would be at a disadvantage against mki let alone rafale.PAF waiting for better versions of j-10s,some radical upgrade of jf-17 or go straight for 5th gen by saving money.Smart thinking by PAF.

That's an unsubstantiated assumption at best. Last several years the units flying the J-10 were whipping J-11, until new J-11 training and tactics were utilized. This has more to do with pilots' skills and tactics than the platform.

 

[Akasa]

The question is of interpreting results.
Please visit some Chinese forums, The J-11 pilot scored 42 kills...not the J-11 overall.
Moreover, there is no indication that these kills were made over Just J-10 units..
It was a combined unit exercise.

But with elements of one-vs-one and two-vs-two had more resemblance to a top gun type(or rather a CCS test) than anything else.

Back in CCS there have been pilots in FT-5's that would literally "plow" F-16's.
Shall that be taken as indication of a superior aircraft.

Back in Red flag.. the red force aircraft flying inferior jets would "plow" blue force.
Is that an inferior Aircraft.

Before the TOP GUN school at miranmar was shut down.. F-14 and F-18 pilots were going up against A-4's and F-16's.
Who would literally out fly them.

The F-4 was supposed to have been tested in simulations before Vietnam to score kills consistently over fighters...
Is that indicative of what happened with the migs in Vietnam?

Aircraft are rarely ever judged on just paper.. which is why No airforce buys an aircraft based on paper(or gloats about it to the degree fanboys here do).. and then just sits back with it believing it has the best weapon system and hence untouchable.

The J-10 was a nightmare for Su-27SK pilots when it first came out.. Moreover, the pilots that flew the J-10 units were selected from the best in the PLAAF(other going to then then J-7 and J-8 units)
Eventually the J-11 units in training were taught better tactics, better BVR and WVR skills.. and like this particular unit where pilots have figured out how to fly and fight with the machine.

The J-11B is still however a fearsome machine.. and is closer to the su-35BM in RCS measures..
And lets not forget.. the Su-27 series on their own are one of the best dogfighting machines flying today.. along with having a radar that can bake a cake with its power... or burn it.
Tactics evolve.. so do people.
The "Golden Helmet" competition is not like Red Flag though.. it is inspired from the PAF CCS course.

The J-11B, with its RAM, AESA radar upgrades for some units, MAWS, IRST, would have a huge advantage over the J-10A. Especially when its aerodynamics and engines aren't bad either. Now, however, with the threat of the new J-10B, things have changed. The J-11B might be limited to a strike role in the PLAAF now, since we are seeing new attack variants like J-16.