Chinese Flanker Family: J-11, J-16 ... Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK

[Akasa]

well Rafale is better in all the terms you mentioned above....



well Rafale is better in all the terms you mentioned above....

Better, as in having a smaller AESA, less composites, weaker engine, lack of sensor fusion, yes, they are definitely "superior".

Dude first of all it will be 1200 T/R module not 12000....and ya Rafale Aesa radar has 1500 T/R modules....


Secondly,forget about 136 KN engine no body even know which engine PAF J-10B will be using Chineese or Russian....

The most optimistic report I've read about the Rafale's radar so far is 880 T/R modules. Not to mention that the PLAAF selects their radars via competition and has far more experience with such systems than France. The J-10B has been tested with a WS-10B engine, so it is imminent to adopt it as their service engine for export.

 

[Akasa]

But we have been hearing of j-10 since 5 yrs now.

True, but again we have already seen tons of action, with the PAF officials taking a model of a modified J-10A from a Chinese official, etc. The J-10As need time to be delivered.

Is is really true that the WS-10A can produce 136KN of thrust?

That would be the WS-10B, especially tailor made for the J-10B. Might include TVC in the future as well.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Taking a model is tons of action?i think its clear PAF waiting for j-10b.

 

[UKBengali]

Some of the mentioned specs of the J-10B make me want it even more for Bangladesh but the present BD government wants Mig-29 instead. It would be a deadly duo with the SU-30.

To think that may have 1200 T/R modules, 136KN WS-10B engine, extensive use of composites and sensor fusion makes you lick your lips in anticipation.

The ability to fire the new generation PL-10 SRAMM and PL-21D LRAAM would put the icing on the cake.

Anyone have any idea when this beast will be ready for service?

 

[帅的一匹]

I strongly believe J-0b will be such a great multiple role gamer for PAF, a state of art fighter. If china could get the engine on it updated to WS10b in the export version provided to PAF?

 

[pzkilo]

一个3无的消息就这么快的传播了。。。 一个id突然出来发个帖子，没有任何干货，然后就能让n多人相信n多人帮助传播，就如当年那个土耳其f4狂草j11。。。

一个消息，除非有很硬的消息或“八股文”出来作证，才能确定。不然甚至是几个可信的大佬（而不是某些名声狼藉的人）集体确实也只能当当参考，可以个人相信但是不确定。
而这样类型的3无消息，相信的这么快还拿来到处传播，是不是儿戏了点？我不是说这事就一定是假的，我是说能不能谨慎点？

 

[Viper0011.]

I strongly believe J-0b will be such a great multiple role gamer for PAF, a state of art fighter. If china could get the engine on it updated to WS10b in the export version provided to PAF?

I would HIGHLY doubt that. The Pakistani air force needs to change its strategy. I have been saying this all along. India is getting very tech-advanced jets. So to keep parity, the PAF needs to match suite to some degree. It doesn't need to be a match for 1-1 (as PAF never had that) but to be a potent defensive fighting force where the enemy doesn't dare to venture in the future (post 2014), they need different planes.
My suggestion has always been to drop the J-10B plan. That doesn't make sense frankly speaking. They should introduce about 3-5 squadrons of J-11 and about 3 squadrons of J-31. Then for Naval role, use J-11 or J-16 or J-31 (preferred 1-2 squadrons for their Navy). This gives them the punch that they need, combined with about 100 JFT BII and 100 BIII's with better AESA's, reduced RCS, BVR missiles in BIII and other ECM, etc upgrades. Around 400 jets with the above mix working with the F-16's would result in a great force. Add left over few F-7's and Mirages for point defense / CAS.
Yes, I know that PAF's strategy is to keep single engine jets. But its time that they change it.

 

[Akasa]

Taking a model is tons of action?i think its clear PAF waiting for j-10b.

THe model given was a J-10A

 

[kaykay]

Better, as in having a smaller AESA, less composites, weaker engine, lack of sensor fusion, yes, they are definitely "superior".



The most optimistic report I've read about the Rafale's radar so far is 880 T/R modules. Not to mention that the PLAAF selects their radars via competition and has far more experience with such systems than France. The J-10B has been tested with a WS-10B engine, so it is imminent to adopt it as their service engine for export.

well rafale's AESA is known to everyone....while there is no proof about your 1200 T/R AESA...last time you guys 'claimed' that but unfortunately that radar happened to be a PESA...LOLz....now come to engine part...right now J10 is equipped with a engine having 123KN thrust...where as rafale is having two engines having 150KN thrust combined....by the time J10B would be equipped with better engine,Indian rafales also be equipped with better engines....as that is planned to replace the current engines with m88-2 engines which have thrust more than 180KN combined.......and would you please mention the 'sensor fusion' where rafale is inferior???

 

[Armstrong]

The J-10B has more upgrades than either the Su-30MKI or Rafale. In fact the reason they didn't order J-10B is because their J-10A upgraded version is already enough to deter the two IAF planes.

Dude I think the reason why we haven't ordered the FC-20 is because we're broke right now ! And we can't rely on the 'soft loans' anymore because we've already financed much of our acquisitions from there. I think we're waiting for the economy to pick up in the next few years before we commit to more acquisitions.

 

[帅的一匹]

I would HIGHLY doubt that. The Pakistani air force needs to change its strategy. I have been saying this all along. India is getting very tech-advanced jets. So to keep parity, the PAF needs to match suite to some degree. It doesn't need to be a match for 1-1 (as PAF never had that) but to be a potent defensive fighting force where the enemy doesn't dare to venture in the future (post 2014), they need different planes.
My suggestion has always been to drop the J-10B plan. That doesn't make sense frankly speaking. They should introduce about 3-5 squadrons of J-11 and about 3 squadrons of J-31. Then for Naval role, use J-11 or J-16 or J-31 (preferred 1-2 squadrons for their Navy). This gives them the punch that they need, combined with about 100 JFT BII and 100 BIII's with better AESA's, reduced RCS, BVR missiles in BIII and other ECM, etc upgrades. Around 400 jets with the above mix working with the F-16's would result in a great force. Add left over few F-7's and Mirages for point defense / CAS.
Yes, I know that PAF's strategy is to keep single engine jets. But its time that they change it.

It doesn't make any sense that ask PAf to go for this and go for that. It depends on PAF requirement and Doctrine. PAF is restrained from its limited budget, otherwise only idiots don't wanna get some goods like J16 AND J11b. Not to mention Russian will pull the political string on the sell of J16 to Pakistan regarding intellectual property ownership.Only if Pakistan economic condition turn better, they will consider your proposal. J10b is a very outsatanding MRCA with very low RCS and sharp avionics and Radar. If i were the cheif commander of PAF, i will go for J10b as well. PAF is not excluding the possibility of buying J16 in the future, it's not the right time to bring it on table. My suggestion to PAF is, induct at least 4-5 suqadrons of J10b and go for customized J31 in the future.
J10b means quite lots to PAf, it will replace those old fuselage of some F16 and provide them a 4++mutile role platform.

well rafale's AESA is known to everyone....while there is no proof about your 1200 T/R AESA...last time you guys 'claimed' that but unfortunately that radar happened to be a PESA...LOLz....now come to engine part...right now J10 is equipped with a engine having 123KN thrust...where as rafale is having two engines having 150KN thrust combined....by the time J10B would be equipped with better engine,Indian rafales also be equipped with better engines....as that is planned to replace the current engines with m88-2 engines which have thrust more than 180KN combined.......and would you please mention the 'sensor fusion' where rafale is inferior???

When the 136KN WS10X COME into service, Rafale will lose its TWR advantage. China will invest 15billions in the coming years for engine R&D, have Inda got any substantial Engine project to rival it? We will catch up the western very soon.

 

[kaykay]

It doesn't make any sense that ask PAf to go for this and go for that. It depends on PAF requirement and Doctrine. PAF is restrained from its limited budget, otherwise only idiots don't wanna get some goods like J16 AND J11b. Not to mention Russian will pull the political string on the sell of J16 to Pakistan regarding intellectual property ownership.Only if Pakistan economic condition turn better, they will consider your proposal. J10b is a very outsatanding MRCA with very low RCS and sharp avionics and Radar. If i were the cheif commander of PAF, i will go for J10b as well. PAF is not excluding the possibility of buying J16 in the future, it's not the right time to bring it on table. My suggestion to PAF is, induct at least 4-5 suqadrons of J10b and go for customized J31 in the future.
J10b means quite lots to PAf, it will replace those old fuselage of some F16 and provide them a 4++mutile role platform.

When the 136KN WS10X COME into service, Rafale will lose its TWR advantage. China will invest 15billions in the coming years for engine R&D, have Inda got any substantial Engine project to rival it? We will catch up the western very soon.

but again the Indian rafale will be equipped with better engine 'M88-3' which is having thrust more than 180KN combined....even one TVC engine variant is being developed but I doubt that India will opt for that....so no j10b advantage over rafale regarding TWR.

 

[帅的一匹]

but again the Indian rafale will be equipped with better engine 'M88-3' which is having thrust more than 180KN combined....even one TVC engine is being developed but I doubt that India opt for that....so no j10b advantage over rafale regarding TWR.

We are progressing everyday.....You know What China speed means. WS15 engine has 16 tons thrust power is finished ground test three months ago, we could mount that on j10 variants in the future. Most Importantly, we can build thousands of it if we'd like to

 

[帅的一匹]

We will induct WS-15 NO late than 2015, when is M88-3 gonna be inducted in IAF? I would probably say at leat in year 2020.

 

[kaykay]

We are progressing everyday.....You know What China speed means. WS15 engine has 16 tons thrust power is finished ground test three months ago, we could mount that on j10 variants in the future. Most Importantly, we can build thousands of it if we'd like to

well here you are talking about a 16 ton engine....and I am talking about 2*9 tons means 18 tons......even though J10B will be equipped with single 16 ton engine, it will be still inferior to 2*90 tons....again sencma is working on a 110KN variant too...I will get back to you once I will find that source...that will lead to 2*11=22tons....